The hairy bear Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 And btw, in relation to the name "Dayne", I think the most likely explanation for the spelling is that it is a derivative from the word "Day", with them being "the Sword of the Morning", being potential involved with the end of the Long Night, and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said: but the illiterate Dothraki Im sorry, were not the Fm illiterate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, The hairy bear said: George said that purple eyes ARE NOT exclusive to the Valyrians, and seems to disregard the notion that the Daynes are of Valyrian descent. Touche how mysterious, could the new age Daynes have Targ blood? The purple eye thing seems to be only a Valaryan feature as far as I can tell besides the Daynes obviously and Darkstar sounds like a Targ 100% even though I know he is NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Stormking902 said: Touche how mysterious, could the new age Daynes have Targ blood? The purple eye thing seems to be only a Valaryan feature as far as I can tell besides the Daynes obviously and Darkstar sounds like a Targ 100% even though I know he is NOT. Most people who do speculate on any thing tin foil go the way of them tracing Dayne's back to the Empire of the Dawn. Highly speculative though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 Both Redforts and ex Red kings of Dreadfort were First men and their relations were good enough that heir of house Bolton was fostered at Redfort. So are there any more connections between those houses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 There are so many names in this series that I'm not even sure it's possible to break them down into absolute codes and patterns. And I don't think GRRM would do that as it'd make it all too easy. A name may be a hint to look into them further, but I think you need something more substantive than the name itself to come to a conclusion. And then the name may not be a blood connections, but one pointing to symbols, parallels, etc. In real life mythology, Bael is a god/demon and this rather than Valyrian origins might be the intended connection. He's a god of the underworld, and we have a Baelish in series trying to give pomegranates to Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, Lollygag said: There are so many names in this series that I'm not even sure it's possible to break them down into absolute codes and patterns. And I don't think GRRM would do that as it'd make it all too easy. A name may be a hint to look into them further, but I think you need something more substantive than the name itself to come to a conclusion. And then the name may not be a blood connections, but one pointing to symbols, parallels, etc. In real life mythology, Bael is a god/demon and this rather than Valyrian origins might be the intended connection. He's a god of the underworld, and we have a Baelish in series trying to give pomegranates to Sansa. Well i definitely agree Bael's legend seems to inspire Baelish, or some older legend Bael's is derived from like Joquil and Florian maybe or the such. Which would explain why Peter Baelish knows of the tale. Cause, as Everyyyyyyyyyyy one has argued, it's only a legend North of the Wall and the Starks knowing anything just seem to know of the name Bael and he is possibly a king beyond the wall but most on here seem to believe that though listing him, Jon doesn't actually think Bael ever existed. So why does Peter Baelish know the version Ygritte knows? (Still dont understand how Yandel knows it honestly and Jon doesn't but whateverrrrrrrrrrrrrrr) And i like that thread but i think she's wrong simply cause Lysa is dead already. No sense in Lady Stone Heart hanging herself or jumping off a wall for the loss of Peter. So though i do think Bael is an influence, it's not in that way, likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 21 minutes ago, Lollygag said: There are so many names in this series that I'm not even sure it's possible to break them down into absolute codes and patterns. And I don't think GRRM would do that as it'd make it all too easy. A name may be a hint to look into them further, but I think you need something more substantive than the name itself to come to a conclusion. And then the name may not be a blood connections, but one pointing to symbols, parallels, etc. In real life mythology, Bael is a god/demon and this rather than Valyrian origins might be the intended connection. He's a god of the underworld, and we have a Baelish in series trying to give pomegranates to Sansa. Unless Sansa is the one who jumps, but that's not the mother of Little Fingers kid. Though he did try to breast feed with her so idk Edit- I would think Sansa was the maid slaying the giant in the snow castle though, if so, she dont' care that he's dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 18 hours ago, Rufus Snow said: Do these names mean anything to you? I know your from England and would know better than i haha Cassel, Condon, Cray, Dustin, Knott, Liddle, Locke, Manderly (Mostly likely not), Mollen, Mormont, Norey, Poole, Ryswell, Ryder, Wull? I ask cause GRRM is reallyyyyyy consistent so far in the North with all his houses be they clan folk or whatever. Blackwood, easy, simple name. Stark, Amber, Fisher, Moss. These are really obvious words both England and America share and consistent with how GRRM says the FM choose names. Some seem weird to an American till you look them up. Myre-Mire= Stretch of swampy or boggy ground. Holt=Forest, Fenn = Low Wet Lands etc. Even though Cerwyn looked weird to me, it came up as Tub, Vat, Wine Press. Bolton seem odd, but are likely Bole (Which House Bole shares) = Tree + (-)Ton = Settlement. So Bolton is Tree Settlement. But these other names are a bit more odd. Manderly obviously so. Mormont, maybe from Mount= Mound, Hill, etc. But why mor? More Hill? "We need more hill!!"? And the rest i couldn't really find anything for in English, Welsh, Scottish, or Old English. Knott i've heard before like Knott's Berry Farm here in California, but seems to have no really meaning, just a name. Edit- Though interestingly some houses like Magnar of Skagos use the old tongue which seems to be different than the other names of the north like Stark or Blackwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 18 hours ago, The hairy bear said: Reply to another thread but more relevant here, there his House Balaerys of Valyria. Keeping with the Last Names as indicators more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 Quote Bael definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/bael a spiny Indian rutaceous tree, Aegle marmelos. the edible thick-shelled fruit of this tree. So aside from allllllll the names in the north making sense to what GRRM has told us, Bael, does not, still. A spiny tree that bears fruit. This sounds in line with Bael's legend at least (Plucking Stark Maid and impregnating her.) Edit- Also, it's a foreign word to American/United Kingdoms English. Like Bael, and his name in the North of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Snow Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Cassel, Condon, Cray, Dustin, Knott, Liddle, Locke, Manderly (Mostly likely not), Mollen, Mormont, Norey, Poole, Ryswell, Ryder, Wull? None of those names would surprise me if I was introduced to one as a random stranger in the pub, if that's any help Manderly is the stand-out because it's not a northern name (in GRRM-world), as they brought it up from their old home beside the Mander in the Reach. Mormont: I read as mor -'sea' - mont 'mount' - so a "sea mount" - an island. Makes me think especially of the Mounts of St Michael (one Cornish, one Brteton) 'Cerwyn' I believe is a real name - I think there was a Cerwyn on one of the Crusades, though I can't recall whether I ran across that in my fiction or non-fiction reading on the topic Sounds like a Welsh root. Bolton is a real English place name, being near Manchester: Quote Toponymy Bolton is a common Northern English name derived from the Old English bothl-tun, meaning a settlement with a dwelling.[3][4] The first recorded use of the name, in the form Boelton, dates from 1185 to describe Bolton le Moors, though this may not be in relation to a dwelling.[5] It was recorded as Bothelton in 1212, Botelton in 1257, Boulton in 1288, and Bolton after 1307.[6] Later forms of Botheltun were Bodeltown, Botheltun-le-Moors, Bowelton, Boltune, Bolton-super-Moras, Bolton-in-ye-Moors, Bolton-le-Moors.[7] The town's motto of Supera Moras means "overcome difficulties" (or "delays"), and is a pun on the Bolton-super-Moras version of the name meaning literally, "Bolton on the moors".[8] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Rufus Snow said: None of those names would surprise me if I was introduced to one as a random stranger in the pub, if that's any help Manderly is the stand-out because it's not a northern name (in GRRM-world), as they brought it up from their old home beside the Mander in the Reach. Mormont: I read as mor -'sea' - mont 'mount' - so a "sea mount" - an island. Makes me think especially of the Mounts of St Michael (one Cornish, one Brteton) 'Cerwyn' I believe is a real name - I think there was a Cerwyn on one of the Crusades, though I can't recall whether I ran across that in my fiction or non-fiction reading on the topic Sounds like a Welsh root. Bolton is a real English place name, being near Manchester: Well plus what i found on Bolton and Cerwyn. Nice. Thank you very much. So going through the North place names, clan names, and house names, GRRM is 100% consistent so far. Other than Bael. It's gonna take me some time, but im looking through Westeros to see what turns up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said: None of those names would surprise me if I was introduced to one as a random stranger in the pub, if that's any help Manderly is the stand-out because it's not a northern name (in GRRM-world), as they brought it up from their old home beside the Mander in the Reach. Mormont: I read as mor -'sea' - mont 'mount' - so a "sea mount" - an island. Makes me think especially of the Mounts of St Michael (one Cornish, one Brteton) 'Cerwyn' I believe is a real name - I think there was a Cerwyn on one of the Crusades, though I can't recall whether I ran across that in my fiction or non-fiction reading on the topic Sounds like a Welsh root. Bolton is a real English place name, being near Manchester: Bael definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/bael a spiny Indian rutaceous tree, Aegle marmelos. the edible thick-shelled fruit of this tree. So aside from allllllll the names in the north making sense to what GRRM has told us, Bael, does not, still. A spiny tree that bears fruit. This sounds in line with Bael's legend at least (Plucking Stark Maid and impregnating her.) Edit- Also, it's a foreign word to American/United Kingdoms English. Like Bael, and his name in the North of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 GRRM also made that comment about names and Ae back before Storm of Swords was published, so the World of Westeros was quite small back then and mostly contained to the North, the Riverlands, the Vale, and Kings Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Snow Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said: So aside from allllllll the names in the north making sense to what GRRM has told us, Bael, does not, still. A spiny tree that bears fruit. This sounds in line with Bael's legend at least (Plucking Stark Maid and impregnating her.) Edit- Also, it's a foreign word to American/United Kingdoms English. Like Bael, and his name in the North of Westeros. Yeah, Bael would raise eyebrows.... Might be worth looking at other wildling names, see if it has any resonances there? Also given names in the North, although by now these will have been influenced by Andals and other newcomers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 Just now, Rufus Snow said: Yeah, Bael would raise eyebrows.... Might be worth looking at other wildling names, see if it has any resonances there? Also given names in the North, although by now these will have been influenced by Andals and other newcomers.... I've already checked all Wildling Free Folk names, all Northern Mountain Clans, Skagossi clans, and Vale Clans, not a one. As far as first names in the North i have not seen any as of yet. Ae is unique to Bael the Bard in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said: Yeah, Bael would raise eyebrows.... Might be worth looking at other wildling names, see if it has any resonances there? Also given names in the North, although by now these will have been influenced by Andals and other newcomers.... Basically me at GRRM and Elio hahah http://cdn1-www.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/2017/02/White-Guy-Blinking-GIF.jpg Ill have to wait a while to definitively be proven wrong too, darn it hahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Snow Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Soooo, the next question is whether the use of such a name is meant to make us think Bael is not real, or that he is a foreigner stirring up the wildlings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmfn Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Lannister may not come from Andals since it was a first name: Lann the Clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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