What's in a naem? (Bael and Hardhome? Bolton's and Faceless Men?)

[AlaskanSandman]

I need to update the Op again but want to clean it all up and havn't had the time. Ill add Daeryssa in more depth and also include Elenei on the list. Would like to organize the known Dothraki words better too. Trying to also work everything into chronological order.  Which would start with Elenei and the Maesters. Working up in time from there, with notes included where relevant, like the names of the Gardener Kings Serwyn is said to have served along with the side accounts that he served Targaryen Kings, fought a dragon Urrax and saved Daeryssa from Dragons. 

Hopefully accompanied by the phonetic listings with help paint a picture of the past. 

[Rufus Snow]

On 9/10/2018 at 10:49 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

Marei is an interesting girl (Whore at Chataya's brothel in K.L.) as her name stands out as a spelling also very rare in Westeros, and she also has Green Eyes, pale skin, and hair of white honey gold, like Casella Vaith. Most speculate that Marei is the daughter of Lord Tywin Lannister.

... well no-one seems to have nemtioned Cersei yet 

[AlaskanSandman]

Just now, Rufus Snow said:

... well no-one seems to have nemtioned Cersei yet 

Haha true, though i covered the Lannisters a little bit with Jamie, and Marei and such. Like i said above, i will be reworking the Op to show the names in chronological order of appearance

[AlaskanSandman]

From another thread i mention in but relevant here

Quote

I have a sneaky suspicion that a Bolton was the first faceless man taken during the time of Brandon the Burner and Bael the Bard and Hardhome and when Valyria took Dragonstone.

 

[AlaskanSandman]

The Bolton's flayed Bael's Son at some point after Bael was brought down which would lead to retribution from House Stark who is now likely Valyrian by blood at least if not by practice, slave practice. So i do think it's quite possible for a Bolton to have been the First Faceless Man. Which would explain the association to the Old Gods with the Weirwood Door. Also with the Hall of faces, the Bloodraven's cave with heads in holes, and the Boltons secret room of flayed skins.

Edit- Bolton's hating House Stark for being Valyrian now, and bringing down Valyria would match up in motive.

[asongofheresy]

On 9/19/2018 at 4:32 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

The Bolton's flayed Bael's Son at some point after Bael was brought down which would lead to retribution from House Stark who is now likely Valyrian by blood at least if not by practice, slave practice. So i do think it's quite possible for a Bolton to have been the First Faceless Man. Which would explain the association to the Old Gods with the Weirwood Door. Also with the Hall of faces, the Bloodraven's cave with heads in holes, and the Boltons secret room of flayed skins.

Edit- Bolton's hating House Stark for being Valyrian now, and bringing down Valyria would match up in motive.

About Boltons and Faceless Men - the Stern Men Arya mentions has really pale emotionless eyes and worm like lips, he seems to be Mandon Moore who tried to kill Tyrion oddly connected to Vale as we know Roose's heir Domeric was fostered at the Vale. 

What do you think about -aa sound of Braavos? And Daario Naharis might be have Braavosi ancestors? 

If -ai is connected to Ghiscari then what about Asshai and Stygai? 

[AlaskanSandman]

7 hours ago, Jova Snow said:

About Boltons and Faceless Men - the Stern Men Arya mentions has really pale emotionless eyes and worm like lips, he seems to be Mandon Moore who tried to kill Tyrion oddly connected to Vale as we know Roose's heir Domeric was fostered at the Vale. 

What do you think about -aa sound of Braavos? And Daario Naharis might be have Braavosi ancestors? 

If -ai is connected to Ghiscari then what about Asshai and Stygai? 

I think there is possibility of a connection between Ghis and the Empire of the Dawn, as Ghis and the Empire existed before the Long Night. It may be that Ghis was part of their far flung colonies, or not. Or it may have just been communication through trade and Asshai and Stygai are merely the Ghiscari names for those cities. I didn't delve too deep into the long A in Aa but you've got me curious. I still very much trust to GRRM's interview as of his clues straight from his own mouth.  I think something more to look into it would be whether or not it pops up in any one in  Westeros that we maybe should be watching. Or as you suggest, with Daario. Though he is Tyroshi as the claims go. So maybe possibly remnants of the speech of Giants and or Hairy Men. I dont remember Wun Wun's speech and would have to look back at it in conjuncture with the Free Cities and their origins again. Don't remember if the Hairy men made it that far south in the tales or not.

[The Mother of The Others]

Hairy men are just going to get harrier the more south you go.

My feeling about the Daynes is they will continue to not do much in this saga while they maintain purple eyes.

And yes please let's get a full lingual analysis of Wun Wun.

[asongofheresy]

10 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I think there is possibility of a connection between Ghis and the Empire of the Dawn, as Ghis and the Empire existed before the Long Night. It may be that Ghis was part of their far flung colonies, or not. Or it may have just been communication through trade and Asshai and Stygai are merely the Ghiscari names for those cities. I didn't delve too deep into the long A in Aa but you've got me curious. I still very much trust to GRRM's interview as of his clues straight from his own mouth.  I think something more to look into it would be whether or not it pops up in any one in  Westeros that we maybe should be watching. Or as you suggest, with Daario. Though he is Tyroshi as the claims go. So maybe possibly remnants of the speech of Giants and or Hairy Men. I dont remember Wun Wun's speech and would have to look back at it in conjuncture with the Free Cities and their origins again. Don't remember if the Hairy men made it that far south in the tales or not.

Do you think it is possible Ghiscari Empire rise during long nigth or connected to Bloodstone emperor and his tiger (harpy?) wife? Maybe like Craster they chose to sacrifice humans to ward them off? I am curious about Wun Wun! Since I do think someone got him drunk before Jon's assassination~ and I wonder why would anyone give wine to a giant? 

 

[AlaskanSandman]

On 11/20/2018 at 9:54 PM, Jova Snow said:

Do you think it is possible Ghiscari Empire rise during long nigth or connected to Bloodstone emperor and his tiger (harpy?) wife? Maybe like Craster they chose to sacrifice humans to ward them off? I am curious about Wun Wun! Since I do think someone got him drunk before Jon's assassination~ and I wonder why would anyone give wine to a giant? 

 

Well i think there is alot of cause to suspect the Ghiscari being linked to the Others. The Harpy makes me think of the Corpse Queen missing her bride. I have often suspected that one brother stole his sister from the other brother, but was eventually brought down. Just not the sister, who returned and courted the Night's King (who may have been the brother who brought down her bride, the other brother). These children i think were children of Garth. Two from the Empire of the Dawn, and the other one, from Westeros. Durran and the Grey King. Each side having children who picked up the struggle. One being Brandon who built the wall, another being the founder of Valyria. 

Though depending on time frames, Ghis may have merely been started by these children or one of them, and then carried on after the Long Night fighting Valyria. These people would not be the Others though as they live in the lands of always summer. So any connection would likely be a group tied to Ghis who ended up in Westeros. 

If GRRM's world is like ours, then every one is connected. There is an adam and eve. Even in science there is an adam and eve. So these cultures very likely were born out of each other, but the exacts of which was born from which is a lil daunting. Specially since GRRM has somethings figured and many things not figured out. Knowing which is which is pretty hard. Ghis pops up in ASOS so im not sure how important they are to the over all story outside of World building. 

[asongofheresy]

Mention of Tyshara Lannister from F&B made me search Lannister family tree as you mentioned the existence of Ei/Ai names from them and Tyshara is just combination of Tysha+Ashara so more Lannister naems for you!

Ser Jaesin Lannister - a Knight of KG

Lady Jyana Arryn Jewel of the Eyrie (interesting) wife of John Lannister

There is a Lady Lucia Lannister whose daughter Mylessa was bethored to Aimery Fell - Lord of Felwood a famous knight 

[AlaskanSandman]

8 hours ago, Jova Snow said:

Ser Jaesin Lannister - a Knight of KG

Yea im going to need to go through  with a pen and make a lot of notes hahaha Jaesin is some one of interest to me. Especially given that one of Alysanne's kids have a green eye and black eye, possibly coming down from Rhaenys. Though the Lord that protected Rhaena was greatly interested in a union and dragons. As Martin says in the interview in the Op. AE suggest a Valryian in the family tree.

Here is another interview about GRRM talking about his naming of Characters and again mentions the ae inflection as being Valyrian.  Though i am curious about his suffix ending Eon, yen, yon.  

[asongofheresy]

On 12/3/2018 at 2:13 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

Yea im going to need to go through  with a pen and make a lot of notes hahaha Jaesin is some one of interest to me. Especially given that one of Alysanne's kids have a green eye and black eye, possibly coming down from Rhaenys. Though the Lord that protected Rhaena was greatly interested in a union and dragons. As Martin says in the interview in the Op. AE suggest a Valryian in the family tree.

Here is another interview about GRRM talking about his naming of Characters and again mentions the ae inflection as being Valyrian.  Though i am curious about his suffix ending Eon, yen, yon.  

Is there any F&B clues about first Rhaenys having affairs? Maybe Aenys being bastard or something? The one with mismatched eyes is Alyssa tight? I thought it was a clue for Tyrion tbh - it is interesting Jaesin was once an heir to Casterly Rock and instead served under Baelor I since Baelor and Rhaegar are similar the name is a gift to any theory that includes Joanna and Aerys. ? 

[AlaskanSandman]

8 minutes ago, Jova Snow said:

Is there any F&B clues about first Rhaenys having affairs? Maybe Aenys being bastard or something? The one with mismatched eyes is Alyssa tight? I thought it was a clue for Tyrion tbh - it is interesting Jaesin was once an heir to Casterly Rock and instead served under Baelor I since Baelor and Rhaegar are similar the name is a gift to any theory that includes Joanna and Aerys. ? 

 

Quote

 

The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest

Rhaenys, youngest of the three Targaryens, was all her sister was not: playful, curious, impulsive, given to flights of fancy. No true warrior, Rhaenys loved music, dancing, and poetry, and supported many a singer, mummer, and puppeteer. Yet it was said that Rhaenys spent more time on dragonback than her brother and sister combined, for above all things she loved to fly. She once was heard to say that before she died she meant to fly Meraxes across the Sunset Sea to see what lay upon its western shores. Whilst no one ever questioned Visenya's fidelity to her brother/husband, Rhaenys surrounded herself with comely young men, and (it was whispered) even entertained some in her bedchambers on the nights when Aegon was with her elder sister. Yet despite these rumors, observers at court could not fail to note that the king spent ten nights with Rhaenys for every night with Visenya.

 

 

 

If Alysanne didn't cheat, then her mother or someone before her had to have. Yes Alyssa, i was typing quick and had Saera stuck on my head but knew it wasn't her haha

 

Aerys and Joanna theories usually include either Tyrion most oftly, or Jamie and Cersei. Though i thought TWOIAF made only Tyrion possible. 

 

Ill have to read more to build any theory though. I am watching the Lannisters though as it's hinted the Gold of the West would be the Doom of Valyria, and it takes alot of gold to hire the faceless men, who brought the gift to the Masters and are alluded to have brought the doom. 

Then the Lannisters also had a hard time receiving a Valryian sword, having to pay a lot for one. Then there was the Lannister who lost the sword sailing to Valyria. Throw in the Lannisters wanting dragons during Rhaena's stay, and im definitely intrigued. 

[asongofheresy]

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

 

 

 

If Alysanne didn't cheat, then her mother or someone before her had to have. Yes Alyssa, i was typing quick and had Saera stuck on my head but knew it wasn't her haha

 

Aerys and Joanna theories usually include either Tyrion most oftly, or Jamie and Cersei. Though i thought TWOIAF made only Tyrion possible. 

 

Ill have to read more to build any theory though. I am watching the Lannisters though as it's hinted the Gold of the West would be the Doom of Valyria, and it takes alot of gold to hire the faceless men, who brought the gift to the Masters and are alluded to have brought the doom. 

Then the Lannisters also had a hard time receiving a Valryian sword, having to pay a lot for one. Then there was the Lannister who lost the sword sailing to Valyria. Throw in the Lannisters wanting dragons during Rhaena's stay, and im definitely intrigued. 

Interesting how no one questions Visenya having affair considering she didn't live with Aegon and Rhaenys and had ten nights to spend with her lover if she had one - though I do think Rhaenys did have an affair. 

What do you think about Marei? A girl from Chatayas house with silver gold hair and green eyes, she is also said to be bookish. If all three Lannisters ends up being trueborn then we might have a bastard born instead. 

[AlaskanSandman]

Just now, Jova Snow said:

Interesting how no one questions Visenya having affair considering she didn't live with Aegon and Rhaenys and had ten nights to spend with her lover if she had one - though I do think Rhaenys did have an affair. 

What do you think about Marei? A girl from Chatayas house with silver gold hair and green eyes, she is also said to be bookish. If all three Lannisters ends up being trueborn then we might have a bastard born instead. 

I definitely think there is a good chance that she is Tywin's daughter and that he is the hand that had the passage built to the Brothel. Or at least took advantage of it.

[asongofheresy]

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I definitely think there is a good chance that she is Tywin's daughter and that he is the hand that had the passage built to the Brothel. Or at least took advantage of it.

I think there was tunnels before and Tywin used them - who do you think her mother was? 

[AlaskanSandman]

8 minutes ago, Jova Snow said:

I think there was tunnels before and Tywin used them - who do you think her mother was? 

That's an interesting question. Probably just some whore though. No good guess honestly. Maybe some dragon seed left over by some previous Targaryen. Or just some pretty girl. Glad Tyrion didn't sleep with her though hahaha

[asongofheresy]

4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

That's an interesting question. Probably just some whore though. No good guess honestly. Maybe some dragon seed left over by some previous Targaryen. Or just some pretty girl. Glad Tyrion didn't sleep with her though hahaha

I wonder if Young Griff will have any time to have some fun maybe we can learn more about her ;) though I believe he won't have invade KL and instead go to Riverlands - I can see him in Vale too because of Griffin King vs Winged Knight myth tbh 

[asongofheresy]

I was really sceptical of Bael and Hardhome being related and them having ties to Valyrians at first but I recently learned Baelfyr means funeral pyre and interestingly only Free Folk and Valyrians cremate their death, it is possible Free Folk originally had barrows of their own but after Hardhome/Valyrian they began to hurry their death too?