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Sly Wren

GRRM Already Told Us the Tower of Joy Backstory: Wrong Joy, No Hiding, and Fight Elsewhere.

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6 minutes ago, Lady Barbrey said:

The problem I have with fix is that Barristan was the runner up and gives no hint, in fact blatantly regrets not winning over Rhaegar.  

 

Jaime was only 15, I think, and might not yet have had his full height.  In the World Book the MK is called slight, not short, and in comparison to hefty full-grown knights  a teenage Jaime would have been.The thing is, Aerys had just knighted him, so if the size obviously didn't fit, he would have realized it because he had just seen him.  He's mad, of course, so can't always be counted upon, but if there was an obvious size discrepancy with Jaime as Aerys's main suspect, you'd think Yandel would have commented on it when dismissing Aerys's suspicions.

So Jaime can't be ruled out for this reason, in my opinion.

Mance would also have been a young man at the time, as he seems of an age with Eddard.

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17 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Mance would also have been a young man at the time, as he seems of an age with Eddard.

True, I don't think any young teenagers 16 and under can be ruled out because of size.  Most boy are pretty weedy and could still be considered slight at 15 or 16. Slight can mean short, it can also mean merely slender.

But going back to the MK, I do like the idea he could just be represented by a ?. And we never definitely know the answer, just as we might never know the AA and PtwP.  Except to an individual reader's satisfaction.  Placeholders or roles rather than definite people.

 

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On 9/6/2018 at 7:30 PM, Sly Wren said:

 

 

 

On 9/6/2018 at 7:36 PM, Sly Wren said:

 

 

The tower doesn't seem like a comfortable place to stay in for the long term.  And Rhaegar and Arthur were accustomed to luxury. 

The three Kingsguard and their party found out about the fall of King's Landing and the death of Aerys.  But the war doesn't end there because their loyalty to their king was absolute.  It would make sense for these loyalists to make their way to Dorne and find a friendly port where they can take a ship for Dragonstone.  The tower was on the way.  These men of honor might have made their way across the Narrow Sea and raised an army for the new King Viserys.

 

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18 hours ago, Lady Barbrey said:

The problem I have with fix is that Barristan was the runner up and gives no hint, in fact blatantly regrets not winning over Rhaegar.  

 

Jaime was only 15, I think, and might not yet have had his full height.  In the World Book the MK is called slight, not short, and in comparison to hefty full-grown knights  a teenage Jaime would have been.The thing is, Aerys had just knighted him, so if the size obviously didn't fit, he would have realized it because he had just seen him.  He's mad, of course, so can't always be counted upon, but if there was an obvious size discrepancy with Jaime as Aerys's main suspect, you'd think Yandel would have commented on it when dismissing Aerys's suspicions.

So Jaime can't be ruled out for this reason, in my opinion.

Barristan was not in on the joke.  If the KOTLT can play a joke on the spectators so can Rhaegar.  Might even be the same hired man.  Which is the reason why the KOTLT quit before facing Rhaegar.  It's the same guy.  

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On 9/26/2018 at 11:37 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

Mance would also have been a young man at the time, as he seems of an age with Eddard.

Mance is a bit older than Eddard.  He is near forty.  

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On 9/26/2018 at 9:45 PM, Lady Barbrey said:

True, I don't think any young teenagers 16 and under can be ruled out because of size.  Most boy are pretty weedy and could still be considered slight at 15 or 16. Slight can mean short, it can also mean merely slender.

But going back to the MK, I do like the idea he could just be represented by a ?. And we never definitely know the answer, just as we might never know the AA and PtwP.  Except to an individual reader's satisfaction.  Placeholders or roles rather than definite people.

 

There are two big clues as to the identity of the Mystery Knight.  The first is that the knight challenges the three knights of the squires that attacked Howland Reed.  The knight then told the knights to properly train their squires.  Thsiclearly indicates familiarity with the incident, suggesting one of the Starks or Reed.

The second clue is that the knight had mismatched bits of armor.  This would suggest that the knight couldn't even borrow some.  Even Benjen or Howland could probably find something to borrow if they had to, but nobody's going to loan armor to a girl.

solution:  It's Lyanna, which Rhaegar found out and gave her the rose.  (Once you figure out the connection between the three squires, its' pretty easy)

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On September 24, 2018 at 11:00 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

I have wondered about Darksister breaking or if he didn't take the sword with him, just a normal sword as he knew he wasn't coming back, same as Jon did with Long Claw. ;)

My apologies for the delay.

Yes--I could see that. Could possibly see him leaving it with Aemon. Hmmm. . . he clearly didn't tell Sam. So, maybe Jon finds it when looking for clues to his reanimated condition? I've been wondering for a little while if/when Jon reanimates if he will lose Longclaw--if the men take it from him when he's dead. If so, perhaps he will then need a new sword--I think that's Dawn. But if Dark Sister is handy, could do for the moment.

On September 24, 2018 at 11:00 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

And Bloodraven does more than mirror the Last Hero, he mirrors the Night's King with even sacrificing children through the Black Gate, along with being L.C. for 13 years. (And possibly 995th L.C.  9+9-5=13)

Yup!

On September 24, 2018 at 11:00 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

And if anyone in Westeros has blue roses, it's House Tyrell. That's if, any one else has them. Loras didn't give Sansa one though. 

Agreed--the Tyrells seem to give hints about Lyanna, too (going back to the basic premise of my OP). Loras in his blue flowers. Marg as a possibly Lyanna substitute. Marg and her trumped up relationship with the Blue Bard--yes, they could have blue roses, too. 

On September 24, 2018 at 11:00 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

And na, your totally cool haha i dont mind pushy even a lil, long as it's not obviously being rude how some are on here. Theres alot though that i like talking to and we all disagree haha :) 

:cheers:

On September 24, 2018 at 11:00 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

And yea, im keeping my eye on House Mormont and looking up some more stuff. Baelish, Hightowers, and Tyrells im watching too. Mance, Valyrian blood in the North, House Mormont ties and all that is what im watching most though. 

House Mormont pops up around the time of Bael and Hardhome possibly, putting Valyrian blood in House Stark, and North of the Wall. 

We later have Alysanne sleeping with some one in the North possibly at Queen's Crown. Was it a mormont? The Bear and the Maiden Fair? Was it a Stark? or a wildling beyond the wall?

Then we have Maege popping up before Rhaegar was born, a kid named Lyanna, and the other, Alysanne, sleeping with a wildling. Tormund. The bear and the maiden fair again? Tormund would have gave Alysane her 2nd kid in 298Ac when Mance slipped into Wiinterfell as a Bard.

Coming down to poor ser Jorah and Lynese and all that jazz. 

We have House Hightower with an Alysanne, and House Manderly with a Wylla.

Bear Island, Hightower Island, Manderly's who are obviously seafarers and worship a sea god. Is this an alliance of those ancient Valyrian Houses? 

I'm loving all of this. And yes--the ties to the sea gods--under the sea and the drowned greenseer/god--that's gotta be giving us information about the past.

And I've been trying to figure out what to do with the Manderlys for a while--especially Wylla and her green hair. It's one of the reasons I think Lyanna may have been called Wylla while she was in hiding--like Arya sometimes chooses aliases tied to those she knows and Sansa's called for Baelish's grandmother--those aliases tell us things about Arya and Sansa's situations. Wondering if Wylla Manderly and her died hair are telling us something about the other Stark-associated Wylla. . . 

Though that's nearer history than some of what you are playing with.

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On September 25, 2018 at 3:37 PM, Enuma Elish said:

Rhaegar had disagreements with his father but killing his father is way beyond that.  Killing your king is a blight that people would never accept.  He would never put his yellow rump on the throne if he killed his father.   Too many people supported Aerys and they would not abide letting Rhaegar rule over them if he killed his own father.  I can't blame them.  Rhaegar has no justifiable cause to usurp his father.  The realm was stable.  A revolution is called for when the economy is bad.  That was not the case here.

Right--but we know for a fact he did not object when, at Duskendale, Tywin ordered the troops to attack. 

The Darklyns had said they'd kill Aerys if Tywin attacked. The council makes exactly that objection to Tywin. He answers that yes, maybe that will happen, but if so, they have an able king ready to take the throne.

He then points at Rhaegar. And the World Book makes no mention of Rhaegar's objecting to this. Like Tywin, he was willing to use the Darklyns' rebellion to get them to kill his father. Like Tywin does in a different way with the Freys. 

Rhaegar wants his father dead--he's just being clever about how he gets it done--waiting until he can use someone else's grievance to do it for him.  He believes he will bring the prince that was promised--a kind of revolution. The Darklyns failed to kill Aerys--Barristan's completely insane rescue mission actually worked. 

But Rhaegar has not stopped plotting--Harrenhal tells us that.

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On September 25, 2018 at 3:47 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

Well if we remove the mystery of who the mystery knight was and look at the story as a hint to something else, that may be the point it was trying to get across. 

:agree:

I really think there's a good chance the mystery knight and focus on who it is--that's all a misdirect for the other info we learn in the story.

On September 26, 2018 at 1:39 AM, Lady Barbrey said:

You may be absolutely right.  Aerys himself names Jaime Lannister, explicitly in the World Book, and there's lots of evidence and even a mirrored situation to support Jaime, but I've never seen any serious or valid argument discounting Jaime. Everyone fixated on Lyanna so just mentioning possible alternatives is grounds for trolling.  You could see the Mystery Knight as a stand in for the PtwP or AA, multiple candidates and inside the helm is just an empty space.  How do you interpret it without a candidate?

While I like @AlaskanSandman's idea that Rhaegar did it himself, I personally wonder if the whole point is that who exactly the knight is doesn't matter much.

Who the knight defeated--and how they might have reacted--that might be more important. And we know all three houses defeated by the knight are used against the Starks--in the same book where we hear about the knight's defeating them.

On September 26, 2018 at 9:31 PM, Lady Barbrey said:

The problem I have with fix is that Barristan was the runner up and gives no hint, in fact blatantly regrets not winning over Rhaegar.  

Yes--but he regrets not being a "better knight." Barristan had lost to Rhaegar before. Had lost to others, too. There's nothing "unknightly" in losing. So--why does he lament not being a better knight? It's not a huge hint, but it does raise the questions. 

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On September 27, 2018 at 11:22 AM, Widowmaker 811 said:

The tower doesn't seem like a comfortable place to stay in for the long term.  And Rhaegar and Arthur were accustomed to luxury. 

Agreed--and JonCon tells us that Arthur is big on his defenses. Tower seems . . . lacking.

Quote

The three Kingsguard and their party found out about the fall of King's Landing and the death of Aerys.  But the war doesn't end there because their loyalty to their king was absolute.  It would make sense for these loyalists to make their way to Dorne and find a friendly port where they can take a ship for Dragonstone.  The tower was on the way.  These men of honor might have made their way across the Narrow Sea and raised an army for the new King Viserys.

Could see this--though depends on where they were when they got word. 

@Seams and @Lady Barbrey--will be back tomorrow to dive into your discussion on glass and roses and everything that stems (bad pun) from those--it's fascinating!

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On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 5:50 PM, Tai Pan said:

Barristan was not in on the joke.  If the KOTLT can play a joke on the spectators so can Rhaegar.  Might even be the same hired man.  Which is the reason why the KOTLT quit before facing Rhaegar.  It's the same guy.  

A professional knight like Ser Uthor.  I can see that. 

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On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 6:13 PM, Nevets said:

There are two big clues as to the identity of the Mystery Knight.  The first is that the knight challenges the three knights of the squires that attacked Howland Reed.  The knight then told the knights to properly train their squires.  Thsiclearly indicates familiarity with the incident, suggesting one of the Starks or Reed.

The second clue is that the knight had mismatched bits of armor.  This would suggest that the knight couldn't even borrow some.  Even Benjen or Howland could probably find something to borrow if they had to, but nobody's going to loan armor to a girl.

solution:  It's Lyanna, which Rhaegar found out and gave her the rose.  (Once you figure out the connection between the three squires, its' pretty easy)

Not necessarily.  Howland Reed prayed for revenge.  If there is one thing less reliable than a cheap alarm clock,  it's prayer.  Gold and payment, why those are reliable.  Howland Reed or Lyanna Stark paid a professional tourney knight to teach those boys a lesson.  Somebody like Ser Uthor. 

Think on this.  Why was it that Howland Reed did not push the issue?  If somebody else had taken it on themselves to punish those boys.  Would that give Howland satisfaction?  It had nothing to do with him.  But if he paid somebody that is different.  He took an active part in getting even.  He hired a man to carry out his revenge.  That is not unheard of.  That's what keeps the faceless men and the sorrowful men in business.  Revenge is an industry.  Paying someone to ride for you is not a long stretch. 

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31 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

While I like @AlaskanSandman's idea that Rhaegar did it himself, I personally wonder if the whole point is that who exactly the knight is doesn't matter much.

Who the knight defeated--and how they might have reacted--that might be more important. And we know all three houses defeated by the knight are used against the Starks--in the same book where we hear about the knight's defeating them.

Maybe none of it is important.  It is only history.  But it was brought up here and so we discuss it. 

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8 minutes ago, Silver Bullet 1985 said:

Maybe none of it is important.  It is only history.  But it was brought up here and so we discuss it. 

My apologies--Not trying to argue it isn't important or not worth debating. Not trying to be dismissive. Apologies if I sounded so.

And I hope we get the identity at some point--as well as explanations as to why the details about other characters were included in the whole story--IE: the men defeated by the knight and why Martin has the Lanniters use three of the defeated's houses used against the Starks. . . .Something's up with that.

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2 hours ago, Silver Bullet 1985 said:

Not necessarily.  Howland Reed prayed for revenge.  If there is one thing less reliable than a cheap alarm clock,  it's prayer.  Gold and payment, why those are reliable.  Howland Reed or Lyanna Stark paid a professional tourney knight to teach those boys a lesson.  Somebody like Ser Uthor. 

Think on this.  Why was it that Howland Reed did not push the issue?  If somebody else had taken it on themselves to punish those boys.  Would that give Howland satisfaction?  It had nothing to do with him.  But if he paid somebody that is different.  He took an active part in getting even.  He hired a man to carry out his revenge.  That is not unheard of.  That's what keeps the faceless men and the sorrowful men in business.  Revenge is an industry.  Paying someone to ride for you is not a long stretch. 

No, not a long stretch and thanks for this as I hadn't even considered a hired man!  I guess it comes down to Lyanna being the obvious answer but as a once very athletic but normal-sized 14 year old girl myself, I find it hard to believe she could take a hit from men I presume are built like linebackers.  She was sure taking a chance she could dodge them!  In that case, all I can say is I hope the stakes were a good deal stronger than in revenge for her bannermen's honour against three squires she had already beaten and soundly humiliated.

 

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9 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

And I hope we get the identity at some point--as well as explanations as to why the details about other characters were included in the whole story--IE: the men defeated by the knight and why Martin has the Lannisters use three of the defeated's houses used against the Starks. . . .Something's up with that.

We had some discussion of this in @Curled Finger's thread, started in Jan. 2018, about the Little Crannogman. Two of the three Houses are obscure, in so far as ASOIAF is concerned; the third House is Frey.

My guess is that the sigils are what is important in deciphering their role in the story: a pitchfork (House Haigh), two porcupines (House Blount) and the double-castle known as the Twins (House Frey). The pitchfork and porcupine might be "stick 'em with the pointy end" allusions. There are some hay and straw symbols through the books (Bran has a guard named Hayhead, Brienne's hair is like straw, Tommen is defeated by a hay-stuffed jousting dummy at Joffrey's name day tourney). The only significant fork I can think of is given to Arya by the sailors on the Titan's Daughter, along with a floppy hat and a fingerless glove.

Two of the houses are in the River lands and House Blount is in the Crown lands. Of course, we do see Ser Boros Blount as kind of a marginal member of the kingsguard, dismissed but reinstated. His role there may be somehow linked back to the behavior of his ancestor's mean squire a generation earlier. Maybe Ser Boros was the mean squire? Maybe we will see a more prominent member of House Haigh in the last books. I think they are married into the Frey family - yes, a granddaughter in his Royce-descended line (Lord Walder's first wife) married a Haigh. For what it's worth, just taking a quick look at that part of the Frey family tree, I see a number of surnames that appear to be part of the gathering scheduled for the Vale in an upcoming book. Maybe that gathering will shed some retroactive light on the Harrenhal tourney.

One more observation about the Harrenhal tourney: it seems as if we are given very little information about the tourney itself. Since GRRM uses jousting and melees to foreshadow elements of the plot, and we know that Harrenhal was a key moment for igniting the conflicts that are central to ASOIAF, it seems important that he gives us the names of only two victors: The Knight of the Laughing Tree and Rhaegar. Rhaegar beats some really important, named knights, yet Rhaegar dies before our story opens and he never becomes king. I know GRRM can sometimes be indirect, and a victory can take more than one form, but this plot and life outcome for Rhaegar doesn't seem to fit the pattern he uses elsewhere for men who become champions at a tourney.

The other thing that intrigues me is that we are told in The Hedge Knight that the kingsguard members cannot do anything to hurt a member of the royal family in a Trial of Seven and, presumably, also a jousting match. Prince Baelor tells Dunk this will give them some leverage against Prince Aerion / Maekar's team, because several of Aerion / Maekar's Trial of Seven fighters are kingsguard members and will not be able to fight Baelor. At Harrenhal, Rhaegar's final two opponents are Dayne and Selmy, both in the kingsguard.

The KotLT defeats unknown, unnamed, obscure people but Rhaegar defeats named, key characters with larger roles in the story. What is that GRRM up to?

P.S. The tourney in The Hedge Knight (Ashford Meadow) also begins with the Queen of Love and Beauty format. (We are told that the sponsor or host of the tourney gets to choose the format or stakes, and the kind with the symbolic Queen is one option among several.) Is the Harrenhal tourney the only other tourney with the Queen format? Oh, nope. I just remembered that Ser Jorah gets to crown Lynesse Hightower at Lannisport. The Ashford Meadow tourney seems never to reach a conclusion, crowning a new queen, although three of the five champions defending Lord Ashford's daughter remain undefeated. We are not told anything about the second day of jousting when Dunk is imprisoned and I think the Trial of Seven displaces the last day of the tourney. So Lyanna and Lynesse are the only crowned queens of Love and Beauty, so far as I can recall.

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17 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

My apologies for the delay.

Yes--I could see that. Could possibly see him leaving it with Aemon. Hmmm. . . he clearly didn't tell Sam. So, maybe Jon finds it when looking for clues to his reanimated condition? I've been wondering for a little while if/when Jon reanimates if he will lose Longclaw--if the men take it from him when he's dead. If so, perhaps he will then need a new sword--I think that's Dawn. But if Dark Sister is handy, could do for the moment.

Yup!

Agreed--the Tyrells seem to give hints about Lyanna, too (going back to the basic premise of my OP). Loras in his blue flowers. Marg as a possibly Lyanna substitute. Marg and her trumped up relationship with the Blue Bard--yes, they could have blue roses, too. 

:cheers:

I'm loving all of this. And yes--the ties to the sea gods--under the sea and the drowned greenseer/god--that's gotta be giving us information about the past.

And I've been trying to figure out what to do with the Manderlys for a while--especially Wylla and her green hair. It's one of the reasons I think Lyanna may have been called Wylla while she was in hiding--like Arya sometimes chooses aliases tied to those she knows and Sansa's called for Baelish's grandmother--those aliases tell us things about Arya and Sansa's situations. Wondering if Wylla Manderly and her died hair are telling us something about the other Stark-associated Wylla. . . 

Though that's nearer history than some of what you are playing with.

All good, im behind on a few replies and threads hahah Martin melted my brain with that new snippit hahahaha i still need to catch up :)

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On 9/6/2018 at 7:36 PM, Sly Wren said:

 

Part III: Then why fight at the tower if no one’s in it? Because, like Dunk, the 3 Kingsguard likely went to a prearranged location to confront a superior foe. The tower of joy was that prearranged location.

1. Ser Duncan and his story are chock full of Dayne imagery—Dunk’s sigil is a falling star. It’s a clear reference to Arthur Dayne and Dawn—the last things Ned sees in his dream before beginning his fateful fight with Arthur and Co.

2. After symbolically tying Dunk to Dayne in The Hedge Knight, Martin gives us an interesting scene in The Sworn Sword: Dunk is sworn to Ser Eustace Osgrey who owns a holdfast/tower called Standfast. Osgrey’s enemy has a superior force and will soon attack.

3. Dunk tells Ser Bennis that it’s stupid to hole up inside the tower and try to fight off a superior force. And he agrees that it’s stupid to fight such a force outside the tower, too.

Ser Bennis looked at his soldiers, his mouth running red with sourleaf. Can't hold the hill with so few spears. Got to be the tower. We all hole up inside.” He nodded at the door. “Only one way in. Haul up them wooden steps, and there's no way they can reach us.”

“Until they build some steps of their own. They might bring ropes and grapnels, too, and swarm down on you through the roof. Unless they just stand back with their crossbows and fill you full of quarrels while you're trying to hold the door.” The Sworn Sword.

4. Instead, Dunk decides that the best way to defend the man he’s sworn to defend is to leave the place he wants to defend and meet the enemy elsewhere.

“Ser?” Egg stood beside him. “Ser, if we mean to go, we'd best be gone, in case the Widow comes.”

The boy was right. If we linger, we'll be trapped here. The Sworn Sword

5. Result? Dunk meets the enemy at a neutral location and eventually fights a ritualized battle to settle a score. He even ends up fighting in a river.

6. So, for a Dayne-like knight, fighting a superior force inside or outside a tower that you want to defend is stupid—leave the ground you’re defending and fight at a neutral location.

7. Why did Martin include this after establishing Dunk’s symbolic tie to Arthur Dayne in Hedge Knight? Martin wrote Sworn Sword knowing full well what many fans thought about the tower of joy fight. For example: the SSM many reference is from 2002. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Concerning_the_Tower_of_Joy

Martin first published Sworn Sword in 2003. Very unlikely this is an accident—he knew.

8. THUS: there’s a whopping good chance that Dayne and the Kingsguard left the place they were defending and confronted a superior force at a neutral location. Just like Dunk—because fighting a superior force inside or outside the tower you’re defending is stupid.

Part IV: Wrapping Up: Narrative precedent is worth noting.

1. The three scenes/plot points listed above all have clear ties to Ned’s tower dream.

2. Sansa and Arya, stolen Stark maids, are NOT the primary missions of their captors.

3. Stark maids don’t hole up and hide in isolated towers with funny names—and they find no “joy” there. They hide in plain sight under aliases.

4. Arthur Dayne-like fighters (Dunk and Beric both have lots of Dayne imagery) fight ritual fights to defend their missions—which don’t include Stark maids.

5. And the Dayne-like Dunk does NOT fight in or at the actual tower/place he wants to defend. He goes to a neutral location. Fighting in or around such towers is stupid.

6. Given all this, there’s a really good chance Martin’s been giving us information about the tower fight throughout the books, not just making us guess.

7. If so, it’s unlikely that anyone was in the tower of joy during that fight. Or that the Kingsguard fought to the death over a Stark maid. Something else is up. “Keep reading.”

THE END

 

Martin prepares his readers.  He doesn't leave us guessing in the absence of clues.  But he also will not give us solid proof until he's ready to reveal the information.  Ned's was heavily medicated when he recalled the fight.  We should make allowances for poor memory and unreliable information.  Like maybe the fight didn't go down that way.  We only have Ned's fevered dream and the tale from the Reeds.  It's not much to go on.  You really stoked the imagination of your readers.  This is great work.

 

 

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On 9/28/2018 at 6:13 PM, Nevets said:

There are two big clues as to the identity of the Mystery Knight.  The first is that the knight challenges the three knights of the squires that attacked Howland Reed.  The knight then told the knights to properly train their squires.  Thsiclearly indicates familiarity with the incident, suggesting one of the Starks or Reed.

The second clue is that the knight had mismatched bits of armor.  This would suggest that the knight couldn't even borrow some.  Even Benjen or Howland could probably find something to borrow if they had to, but nobody's going to loan armor to a girl.

solution:  It's Lyanna, which Rhaegar found out and gave her the rose.  (Once you figure out the connection between the three squires, its' pretty easy)

Lyanna is a slim girl who rode her horse very well.  I'm still not sure if that alone is enough to defeat competent knights in a high level tournament.  I vacillate on the identity of the KotLT.  Howland Reed is another choice but he doesn't have the background to unhorse those knights.  I may have to throw in with the people that says KotLT was a knight in disguise.  This somebody overheard the fracas between Howland and the squires.  Maybe it was somebody who got paid but I am not so sure about that.  A person who valued money would have ransomed the armor back to the knights.  It's somebody known to Lyanna.  A yet unknown boyfriend or someone who hoped to become her boyfriend.  A fighting man with skills to unhorse three knights.  He either loved her enough to do this for her or maybe she asked him.  And you know she probably repaid his gallant service with, um, services of her own.  

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