Valyrian steel armor

[Targaryen Restoration]

The armor doesn't have to have magical properties to be useful.  The material is light and strong at the same time.  The wearer is less burdened by the weight and theoretically will move faster.  It's like wearing a knife-proof jacket that weighs less than an undersized bra.  

[White Ravens]

13 hours ago, Sigella said:

Im wondering what it would practically mean to have an armor made from valyrian steel when fighting

a) Wights

b) White walkers

c) knight armed with ordinary steel

d) knight with valyrian steel blade

I'm interested to see where GRRM goes with Valyrian steel armour.  I mean, I can wrap my head around Valyrian steel swords and other blades in that they are basically Super Damascus Steel that has been magicked up - lighter, sharper and able to hold an edge like nobodies business, not to mention the ability to smite Others and the un-dead who work for them.   Valyrians steel blades are described as being forged by repeatedly heating, folding and hammering the steel to achieve the characteristic strength (similar to forging Damascus steel blades).  But I don't think that there are real world examples of Damascus steel being made into armour.  I guess I'll just wait and see.

(What else am I gonna do)

Maybe Valyrian steel armour will protect the wearer from magical forms of attacks such as spells and magical crystal ethereal blades.

[Darth Sidious]

Jon was sharpening and oiling Longclaw when Slynt came for their meeting.  That tells me it gets dull.  It will hold an edge longer than the mild steel they have at the time but it is not going to stay sharp forever. 

[Sigella]

9 hours ago, Silver Bullet 1985 said:

Jon was sharpening and oiling Longclaw when Slynt came for their meeting.  That tells me it gets dull.  It will hold an edge longer than the mild steel they have at the time but it is not going to stay sharp forever. 

Wasn't that just for show? Like Robb having his sword laying in front of him when dealing with someone subordinate that displeased him?

[Three-Fingered Pete]

11 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Valyrians steel blades are described as being forged by repeatedly heating, folding and hammering the steel to achieve the characteristic strength (similar to forging Damascus steel blades).  But I don't think that there are real world examples of Damascus steel being made into armour.

That's because the very nature of the steel precludes using it for that application. Damascus steel is so good for the same reason Japanese samurai sword steel was/is so good. The process of refolding the metal, controlling its carbon content under high heat and then selectively tempering it allows for the weapon to be softer in the middle (or down the spine in the case of a single bladed weapon like a samurai sword) and harder at the edges. This gives the weapon the ability to cut like a razor and retain its edge, but still be flexible and elastic enough to take a blow without bending or shattering like iron or inferior steel would.

Plate steel is too thin to selectively temper, so it would be a bad application for Damascus steel, and I suspect Valyrian steel if it is indeed like its real world cousin. Plate armor was made to be slightly softer in order to absorb the blow like crumple zones on a car. Swords actually started to fall out of favor as a knightly weapon since they were nearly useless against good plate armor and maces, axes and war hammers became the weapons of choice, as well as my favorite medieval Swiss army knife/can opener, the bec de corbin.

Now GRRM can do what he likes in his world, but if he is going to follow real world precedent I don't think we will see any VS armor anytime soon. This is actually kind of funny as just the other day I remembered that many years ago I was wondering why there weren't any mithril weapons in Tolkien's world. We only had one example of an armor shirt. You'd think there would be full plate and sharp swords of something that wondrous.

[Sigella]

10 minutes ago, Trefayne said:

That's because the very nature of the steel precludes using it for that application. Damascus steel is so good for the same reason Japanese samurai sword steel was/is so good. The process of refolding the metal, controlling its carbon content under high heat and then selectively tempering it allows for the weapon to be softer in the middle (or down the spine in the case of a single bladed weapon like a samurai sword) and harder at the edges. This gives the weapon the ability to cut like a razor and retain its edge, but still be flexible and elastic enough to take a blow without bending or shattering like iron or inferior steel would.

Plate steel is too thin to selectively temper, so it would be a bad application for Damascus steel, and I suspect Valyrian steel if it is indeed like its real world cousin. Plate armor was made to be slightly softer in order to absorb the blow like crumple zones on a car. Swords actually started to fall out of favor as a knightly weapon since they were nearly useless against good plate armor and maces, axes and war hammers became the weapons of choice, as well as my favorite medieval Swiss army knife/can opener, the bec de corbin.

Now GRRM can do what he likes in his world, but if he is going to follow real world precedent I don't think we will see any VS armor anytime soon. This is actually kind of funny as just the other day I remembered that many years ago I was wondering why there weren't any mithril weapons in Tolkien's world. We only had one example of an armor shirt. You'd think there would be full plate and sharp swords of something that wondrous.

Winds of Winter spoiler:

Spoiler

Euron has an armor made from VS

 

[Three-Fingered Pete]

12 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Winds of Winter spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

Euron has an armor made from VS

 

Is that confirmed or does it "appear" to be VS much like Stannis' sword "appears" to be LB? In any case, like I said, GRRM's world=GRRM's rules. We are only assuming VS is an analog of DS. When you add spells to things, anything is possible. The question then arises, why is this the only example of VS armor when we have several examples of VS weapons? Was all the armor lost or melted down to make more weapons? Was Euron the first to think to make it into armor?

[Sigella]

23 minutes ago, Trefayne said:

Is that confirmed or does it "appear" to be VS much like Stannis' sword "appears" to be LB? In any case, like I said, GRRM's world=GRRM's rules. We are only assuming VS is an analog of DS. When you add spells to things, anything is possible. The question then arises, why is this the only example of VS armor when we have several examples of VS weapons? Was all the armor lost or melted down to make more weapons? Was Euron the first to think to make it into armor?

Fetched from the smoking ruins of Old Valyria iirc.

Aeron recognises it as VS and Euron says it is, so...

I think its like Nymerias wolf pack, why put them in the story if you're not plan on using them?

[aryagonnakill#2]

16 hours ago, Sigella said:

In tSS ser Justace says: "For near an hour they danced together on their horses, wheeling and circling and slashing as men died all around them. It's said that whenever Blackfyre and Lady Forlorn clashed, you could hear the sound for a league around. It was half a song and half a scream, they say. But when at last the Lady faltered"(...) so according to him they do. 

No

But if we say VS armor has the same magical properties as VS-weapons, then the Others shimmering-colour changing-ice-armor should have the same magical properties as their swords, and if so ice-armor should shatter a regular sword, but shatter itself if struck by VS-sword. So VS-armor will shatter ice-sword when struck by it?

That would make finding the gaps a bit more challenging.

I believe when it says when at last the lady faltered, it means that Corbray missed a check on Blackfyre and lost the fight.  I don't think there is any evidence either sword was damaged in the fight.

[Sigella]

1 hour ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I believe when it says when at last the lady faltered, it means that Corbray missed a check on Blackfyre and lost the fight.  I don't think there is any evidence either sword was damaged in the fight.

Could be, but the wording doesn't sit right to me. If it was Cordbray that missed it isn't really Lady Forlorn fault.

[White Ravens]

3 hours ago, Trefayne said:

Is that confirmed or does it "appear" to be VS much like Stannis' sword "appears" to be LB? In any case, like I said, GRRM's world=GRRM's rules. We are only assuming VS is an analog of DS. When you add spells to things, anything is possible. The question then arises, why is this the only example of VS armor when we have several examples of VS weapons? Was all the armor lost or melted down to make more weapons? Was Euron the first to think to make it into armor?

I found some excerpts from some fan notes from a chapter GRRM read a convention somewhere.  Perhaps someone knows the source.  I apologize that I don't.  

Quote

• Sees Euron clad in black scale armor, edged in red-gold

 

    • The armor has runes and glyphs in the steel--the armor is Valyrian steel

• Euron is the only one who owns a suit of Valyrian steel

• Hasn’t been seen since the doom 400 years ago.  Even then would have cost a kingdom.

• Aeron says to himself that Euron has been to Valyria. No wonder he is mad

Scale armour could explain how it is made from Valyrian steel because each scale could be forged separately and then attached over leather or some other material.  Perhaps the magical nature of the armour is it's primary form of protections with wards and glamours protecting the wearer from any number of enchantments and magical assaults.  It may provide protection from the crystal blades of the others.  Maybe it protects the wearer from dragon flame.  

[Sigella]

4 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

I found some excerpts from some fan notes from a chapter GRRM read a convention somewhere.  Perhaps someone knows the source.  I apologize that I don't.  

Scale armour could explain how it is made from Valyrian steel because each scale could be forged separately and then attached over leather or some other material.  Perhaps the magical nature of the armour is it's primary form of protections with wards and glamours protecting the wearer from any number of enchantments and magical assaults.  It may provide protection from the crystal blades of the others.  Maybe it protects the wearer from dragon flame.  

Aeon's WoW chapter excerpt. You can find it on youtube, search for "Forsaken excerpt winds of winter".

[White Ravens]

41 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Aeon's WoW chapter excerpt. You can find it on youtube, search for "Forsaken excerpt winds of winter".

Here, let me help you by linking the quote. 

The relevant bit about Euron's armour begins at 32:00.  I see no reason to question Euron's opinion that the armour is made of Valyrian steel. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

1 hour ago, Sigella said:

Could be, but the wording doesn't sit right to me. If it was Cordbray that missed it isn't really Lady Forlorn fault.

No, but fault has multiple meanings, faulted literally means missed in certain contexts, such as tennis.  In any event the fact that the blades made such a loud noise also suggests they weren't being damaged.  The vibrations were louder because nothing was breaking off and all the force was put into and retained in the blades causing them to vibrate much more than when regular blades collide.

The VS blades are in my mind intended to be perfect.  Like when Tyrion is traveling from Pentos to the Rhoyne, he comments on how the Valyrian stone roads are flawless, after thousands of years not a single crack.  Likewise if you had to sharpen Valyrian steal swords they would not last long as sharpening a sword is removing steal from it, after a while a sword is sharpened until it is too small to use.  

[Alexis-something-Rose]

17 hours ago, Silver Bullet 1985 said:

Jon was sharpening and oiling Longclaw when Slynt came for their meeting.  That tells me it gets dull.  It will hold an edge longer than the mild steel they have at the time but it is not going to stay sharp forever. 

He wasn't sharpening Longclaw. He was cleaning it. There's mention of the oilcloth, but no mention of a whetstone.

 

[Sigella]

2 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

No, but fault has multiple meanings, faulted literally means missed in certain contexts, such as tennis.  In any event the fact that the blades made such a loud noise also suggests they weren't being damaged.  The vibrations were louder because nothing was breaking off and all the force was put into and retained in the blades causing them to vibrate much more than when regular blades collide.

The VS blades are in my mind intended to be perfect.  Like when Tyrion is traveling from Pentos to the Rhoyne, he comments on how the Valyrian stone roads are flawless, after thousands of years not a single crack.  Likewise if you had to sharpen Valyrian steal swords they would not last long as sharpening a sword is removing steal from it, after a while a sword is sharpened until it is too small to use.  

Do they say "the racket faltered" when tennis players misses a shot though? 

English isn't my first language so sorry if I'm being thick.

[aryagonnakill#2]

17 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Do they say "the racket faltered" when tennis players misses a shot though? 

English isn't my first language so sorry if I'm being thick.

No they don't, and I don't think the quote reads the way a person would talk now a days, but it does sound like poetry from a long time ago, to me at least its a way of saying that Corbray lost the fight.  I mean we know Lady Forlorn didn't break in half or anything as it is still around, we just know that Daemon Blackfyre won the fight after a long time.

 

[Sigella]

2 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

No they don't, and I don't think the quote reads the way a person would talk now a days, but it does sound like poetry from a long time ago, to me at least its a way of saying that Corbray lost the fight.  I mean we know Lady Forlorn didn't break in half or anything as it is still around, we just know that Daemon Blackfyre won the fight after a long time.

 

I get the poetry point. Maybe ser Justace got the feels whilst relaying the story.

We know how highly valued VS swords are and that they can be remade so it seems natural that the sword would be fixed if it had broken.

[aryagonnakill#2]

57 minutes ago, Sigella said:

I get the poetry point. Maybe ser Justace got the feels whilst relaying the story.

We know how highly valued VS swords are and that they can be remade so it seems natural that the sword would be fixed if it had broken.

Would swords that break and get re-forged be that valuable?  I have to say it seems like your fighting a battle for no reason.  There has never been any indication that any Valyrian steal sword has chipped let alone broke.

[Sigella]

29 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Would swords that break and get re-forged be that valuable?  I have to say it seems like your fighting a battle for no reason.  There has never been any indication that any Valyrian steal sword has chipped let alone broke.

Yes because its a VS-sword. I'm not fighting a battle here, just trying to figure stuff out.