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King_of_Ashes

Why do people love Dany?

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2 hours ago, Starkz said:

Not being killed after Drogo died, not being taken to Vaes Dothrak, surviving the blood magic ritual to hatch dragons, making it across the red waste, obtaining the Unsullied... Do I have to go on? She has incredible luck.

Let's look at Arya.  Syrio bought her time from the Lannisters.  Yoren rescued her from the square and helped her time and time again.  She happened upon Jaqen who also help her.  This little girl traveling to Braavos and she doesn't so much as get raped.  Having those men who happen to be honest around her during the times of danger is luck.  Jon becomes steward because he's the bastard of the lord of the north.  He got away with attacking Alliser Thorne because Jeor Mormont doesn't want to offend the Starks.  Banner people like Lady Dustin followed Robb because he inherited the power to call on them from his father.  He didn't earn it.  He didn't earn his wolf.  

Daenerys Targaryen was the widow of a khal.  Dothraki law forbid anybody to harm a future Dosh Khaleen.  Her bloodriders wanted to take her to Vaes Dothrak.  That is what saved her life.  It's not luck but the men following Dothraki law.  She goes to the flames and walks out.  The Dothraki realize this is something bigger than their laws and customs.  They set those aside and follow her to Qarth.  Obtaining the Unsullied was due to bravery,  playing it smart, Oscar-worthy acting skills, willingness to fight, and exercising remarkable control of her emotions.  

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3 hours ago, Sigella said:

:D 

Unflattering editing aside, I'd never ever would've touched this series if it wasn't for the pure concept "a girl gets the dragons".

Also there is another side to the contrasts between Jon and Danys chapters; I read a Dany chapter and its awesome and she kicks ass wearing silk and jewels, sipping persimmon wine, visiting exotic places and petting her dragons - but then I turn the page and see its a Jon chapter and my heart kind of sinks because I know it will be about the cold, how the wall looks, dirty uncouth Brothers intriguing, ugliness and horrible food and drink. I like glam and Jon aint it.

Dany is living.. Jon is trying to survive.

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1 minute ago, The First Bloodrider said:

Let's look at Arya.  Syrio bought her time from the Lannisters.  Yoren rescued her from the square and helped her time and time again.  She happened upon Jaqen who also help her.  This little girl traveling to Braavos and she doesn't so much as get raped.  Having those men who happen to be honest around her during the times of danger is luck.  Jon becomes steward because he's the bastard of the lord of the north.  He got away with attacking Alliser Thorne because Jeor Mormont doesn't want to offend the Starks.  Banner people like Lady Dustin followed Robb because he inherited the power to call on them from his father.  He didn't earn it.  He didn't earn his wolf.  

Daenerys Targaryen was the widow of a khal.  Dothraki law forbid anybody to harm a future Dosh Khaleen.  Her bloodriders wanted to take her to Vaes Dothrak.  That is what saved her life.  It's not luck but the men following Dothraki law.  She goes to the flames and walks out.  The Dothraki realize this is something bigger than their laws and customs.  They set those aside and follow her to Qarth.  Obtaining the Unsullied was due to bravery,  playing it smart, Oscar-worthy acting skills, willingness to fight, and exercising remarkable control of her emotions.  

Dany was incredible lucky. Jon didn’t even want to be steward, Robb proved himself on the battlefield earning his wolf, having help from another character isn’t luck either. Dany easily could of been killed for allowing Mirri to treat Drogo, could of been taken to Vaes Dothrak or died in the fire. All the cards came up Daenerys Targaryen. The masters of Astapor have been making Unsullied for centuries, the most obedient/well disciplined army ever, and yet they had no fail safe if anyone tried to turn the Unsullied against them? These are just a few of the incredibly lucky moments she’s had. I’m not saying other characters havent had luck, but hers is on another level.

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Who we like is a very personal thing.  She has personal qualities that appeal to me.   I like her because she is a strong young woman who wants to make her world better for the weak.   Plus factor in the charisma of being born a princess and working her way to becoming the leader of her own Khalasar, which must surely be a first for anybody, the first female to lead a khalasar.   She was born with the title but lacked money.  She worked her way from poverty to become the most powerful person in the continent.   I also believe Daenerys is the best hope for Westeros.  But I would be just as happy if she turns away from Westeros and builds her own empire in the east.  The area around Slaver's Bay is an ideal location from which to start a new Valyria. 

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5 hours ago, Starkz said:

Dany is living.. Jon is trying to survive.

 Really both aren't in situations to which gives them the oppurtunity for much leisure(true far more comfort than those under them, Jon and Daenarys aren't so pretentious to starve and self-flagellate themselves to show how they're "with"  their people), and demand carefulness. Its ridiculous  to act as though either of these characters have an easy task. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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31 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 Really both aren't in situations to which gives them the oppurtunity for much leisure(true far more comfort than those under them, Jon and Daenarys aren't so pretentious to starve and self-flagellate themselves to show how they're "with"  their people), and demand carefulness. Its ridiculous  to act as though either of these characters have an easy task. 

I mean, Dany has quite a bit of leisure eating fruits and getting laid, with 3 dragons and an elite infantry force for protection... Shes in a far more secure and safe position than Jon as we all know based on his last chapter.

Edited by Starkz

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27 minutes ago, Starkz said:

I mean, Dany has quite a bit of leisure eating fruits and getting laid, with 3 dragons and an elite infantry force for protection... Shes in a far more secure and safe position than Jon as we all know based on his last chapter.

She imprisoned Rheago and Viserys after Drogo left her specifically because she can no fully control them. And even with dragons that doesn't stop every blade in the dark-King Maegor the cruel's fate shows very well that maxim. Hell she nearly got killed in the end. end Jon's demise can be attributed to him not taking basic safety precautions-he should have had body guards, tried to actually gleam just how dissatisfied his brothers were with his radical policies(truly the vast majority would likely despise him-he's letting in the people murdered and tortured their friends and tried to murder them a few months prior), and how they may be willing to go to stop him. Daenarys herself nearly got killed in ASOS by mero by virtue of not having an  adequate bodyguard. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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26 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

She imprisoned Rheago and Viserys after Drogo left her specifically because she can no fully control them. And even with dragons that doesn't stop every blade in the dark-King Maegor the cruel's fate shows very well that maxim. Hell she nearly got killed in the end. end Jon's demise can be attributed to him not taking basic safety precautions-he should have had body guards, tried to actually gleam just how dissatisfied his brothers were with his radical policies(truly the vast majority would likely despise him-he's letting in the people murdered and tortured their friends and tried to murder them a few months prior), and how they may be willing to go to stop him. Daenarys herself nearly got killed in ASOS by mero by virtue of not having an  adequate bodyguard. 

For sure both Jon and Dany aren’t in safe positions, no leader is.  I’m just saying Dany has far more support and allies than Jon has currently, though she’s in a more populous place. Jon does have body guards/people that protect him  lest I remember but Marsh was rather close to Jon and Jon had no way of knowing he would act out so vigorously. Jon knew his Brothers were unhappy with the Wildlings coming South but there weren’t any other options besides leaving them to die and he wasn’t attacked for that, though it probably contributed to Marsh acting out.

Edited by Starkz

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I like Dany because she's beautiful and wilful and has a knack of winning people to her side. She's just suppose to be some gift for a Dothraki horse lord and yet has the determination of a queen. I think people feed off of her strength and beauty. I wouldn't call it luck. The whole world and it's horse wants to own her (and her dragons) and she manages to be entirely her own person despite it.

And she's just a child. It's not a case of her being an incredible character. It's her potential. The paths that are open to her are intriguing. Her destiny could be huge. She's somebody I would like to follow. 

I don't understand why she's being compared to Jon. They're not even remotely similar except for their age. And as for luck.... both characters are dripping in plot armour.

People say Jorah saved Dany. And he did. But is it not true that she also saved him? By actually regarding him as a knight and not a criminal and an exile? He desired her affections, and it motivated him to do something arguably better with himself. We see first hand in aDwD what he gets up to without her in his life. Dany was his shot at redemption. And remains so. There is a power to that. And Dany, whether she understands it or not, uses it well. Just the virtue of being who she is, motivates people to hope. And hope is so often all a person has on Planetos.  

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She's a genuinely good person but thats really the only thing she has going for her. She is a terribile ruler. Did she expect the slavers to give up a tousand years institution just like that? Both Robb and Jon are smarter than her and Mangaery is 3 times smarter than them all.

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9 hours ago, Starkz said:

Jon does have body guards/people that protect him  le

He did not. Like where are you getting he'd assigned people to specifically guard his person at all times? 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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2 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

I like Dany because she's beautiful and wilful and has a knack of winning people to her side. She's just suppose to be some gift for a Dothraki horse lord and yet has the determination of a queen. I think people feed off of her strength and beauty. I wouldn't call it luck. The whole world and it's horse wants to own her (and her dragons) and she manages to be entirely her own person despite it.

And she's just a child. It's not a case of her being an incredible character. It's her potential. The paths that are open to her are intriguing. Her destiny could be huge. She's somebody I would like to follow. 

I don't understand why she's being compared to Jon. They're not even remotely similar except for their age. And as for luck.... both characters are dripping in plot armour.

People say Jorah saved Dany. And he did. But is it not true that she also saved him? By actually regarding him as a knight and not a criminal and an exile? He desired her affections, and it motivated him to do something arguably better with himself. We see first hand in aDwD what he gets up to without her in his life. Dany was his shot at redemption. And remains so. There is a power to that. And Dany, whether she understands it or not, uses it well. Just the virtue of being who she is, motivates people to hope. And hope is so often all a person has on Planetos.  

Jon's not dripping in plot armor; he's dripping blood from a whole bunch of stab wounds. And then a whole bunch of other stuff...

 

10 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 Daenarys herself nearly got killed in ASOS by mero by virtue of not having an  adequate bodyguard. 

This is one of the reasons why I think Daenerys should be trained in arms. When you don't have a dragon or Ser Friendzone, you need something else, like skill at arms. 

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"In story" people like her:

1. She's a Targeryen.  So they attach all their own internal feelings and expectations to her right off the bat based on that, rather than on reality.  This will be hugely advantageous for her when (if ever) she gets to Westeros.  Anyone with a grudge against the Baratheons or the Lannisters will rally to her cause.

2. She's beautiful.  This is also important.  Primtive societies often assume the internals match the externals.  

3. She frees slaves and tries to protect the weak.  This applies to some of those in her khal, when she led them to a new life, as well as to the unsullied and all the slaves she's freed.

4.  She has power.  Begining from her dragons, but supported by all those who have lined up behind her.

For myself, I like her character because she's a traditional tropey heroine trying to save the day, and we're getting to see that you don't just win by throwing the evil emperor down the conveniently placed shaft.  That you have to pick up the pieces afterwards and glue them back together, or else everything will crumble to dust.  I like to read her chapters more because of how things go wrong, than I do because she's just another tropey hero.  And at least Daenerys seems to be learning from her mistakes. 

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4 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Jon's not dripping in plot armor; he's dripping blood from a whole bunch of stab wounds. And then a whole bunch of other stuff...

 

This is one of the reasons why I think Daenerys should be trained in arms. When you don't have a dragon or Ser Friendzone, you need something else, like skill at arms. 

I dissagree, and I tend to agree with Octavius from the Rome series on the subject.

"At best I will be a middling swordsmen.  Graveyards are full of middling swordsmen.  Better to be no swordsmen at all than a middling swordsmen."  

The time she would have to spend learning to fight would be better used in other ways.  She's a small teenage girl, short of plot armor, she will never be useful in any kind of battle.   Learning to fight would be hugely time consuming and ultimately futile.  Visenya no doubt trainer her whole life to be a soldier, and she wasn't Dani's body type.  Daenerys should be spending her time learning people and dragons.  That will be her job as a Queen.  She should leave fighting to someone else and get more bodyguards.   She should train her dragons to carry a couple unsullied with her at all times.  They're alreadfy fanatical death comandos, perfect for bodyguarding.

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I have two criticisms of Daenerys.

She lumps Ned Stark in with the rest of the "Usurper's Dogs", and doesn't take in the fact that 

  • Her father made a mockery of his father and brother's trial, and then called for Ned's head for little reason;
  • Ned protested against the deaths of her sister-in-law, niece and nephew, as for her own assassination;
  • When Barristan protests against her assessment of Ned Stark, she just blows him off. 

Her taste in men; women who like dangerous, arrogant men don't do well. Just ask Sansa. 

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7 minutes ago, argonak said:

 

The time she would have to spend learning to fight would be better used in other ways.  She's a small teenage girl, short of plot armor, she will never be useful in any kind of battle.   Learning to fight would be hugely time consuming and ultimately futile.  Visenya no doubt trainer her whole life to be a soldier, and she wasn't Dani's body type.  Daenerys should be spending her time learning people and dragons.  That will be her job as a Queen.  She should leave fighting to someone else and get more bodyguards.   She should train her dragons to carry a couple unsullied with her at all times.  They're alreadfy fanatical death comandos, perfect for bodyguarding.

You can't fit a dragon in a building. And Unsullied spears don't do well in close quarters. 

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2 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

The area around Slaver's Bay is an ideal location from which to start a new Valyria

Funny, since Valyria was built and maintained on the backs of slaves. 

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3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

He did not. Like where are you getting he'd assigned people to specifically guard his person at all times? 

I didn’t say at all times, but he had people with/around him that would help him if someone attacked him. He doesn’t have body guards in the traditional sense but rather just people around that would support him.

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6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I have two criticisms of Daenerys.

She lumps Ned Stark in with the rest of the "Usurper's Dogs", and doesn't take in the fact that 

  • Her father made a mockery of his father and brother's trial, and then called for Ned's head for little reason;
  • Ned protested against the deaths of her sister-in-law, niece and nephew, as for her own assassination;
  • When Barristan protests against her assessment of Ned Stark, she just blows him off. 

Her taste in men; women who like dangerous, arrogant men don't do well. Just ask Sansa. 

All she knows about the rebellion is what Viserys told her, and we know he was full of shit. We'll see what she does when (and if) someone finally tells her the truth. She had a knee-jerk reaction of dismissal when Barristan tried to defend Ned but she quickly backtracked once she realized what she was saying, I think she'll change her mind.

I agree about her taste in men so far. And if Drogo could perhaps be ascribed to Stockholm syndrome, there's really no excuse for Daario.

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