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King_of_Ashes

Why do people love Dany?

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12 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Her taste in men;

 

6 hours ago, Geddus said:

I agree about her taste in men so far.

True. But at least she had the sense to turn down that creep Jorah, despite how heavily he came onto her when she was in a vulnerable state. Drogo was forced on her and Jorah tried to persuade her into taking him as a husband or paramour, despite the fact she showed no interest in him. Perhaps that's why she took Daario into her bed, he was the first man she got to choose for herself.

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15 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

I like Dany because she's beautiful and wilful and has a knack of winning people to her side. She's just suppose to be some gift for a Dothraki horse lord and yet has the determination of a queen. I think people feed off of her strength and beauty. I wouldn't call it luck. The whole world and it's horse wants to own her (and her dragons) and she manages to be entirely her own person despite it.

And she's just a child. It's not a case of her being an incredible character. It's her potential. The paths that are open to her are intriguing. Her destiny could be huge. She's somebody I would like to follow. 

I don't understand why she's being compared to Jon. They're not even remotely similar except for their age. And as for luck.... both characters are dripping in plot armour.

People say Jorah saved Dany. And he did. But is it not true that she also saved him? By actually regarding him as a knight and not a criminal and an exile? He desired her affections, and it motivated him to do something arguably better with himself. We see first hand in aDwD what he gets up to without her in his life. Dany was his shot at redemption. And remains so. There is a power to that. And Dany, whether she understands it or not, uses it well. Just the virtue of being who she is, motivates people to hope. And hope is so often all a person has on Planetos.  

Jorah was a cynical man until he met Daenerys.  He found someone bigger and greater than himself to believe in so he no longer wallows in his own misery.  

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15 hours ago, Starkz said:

I didn’t say at all times, but he had people with/around him that would help him if someone attacked him. He doesn’t have body guards in the traditional sense but rather just people around that would support him.

He doesn't have body guards in any sense, largely the people around him either aren't obligated to protect his life and/or could be reasonably be feared to despise him to the point where they may choose not to protect him or kill him themselves(seriously he's letting in the savages who murdered and tortured their friends and tried to murder them-he can't rely respect the chain of command to shield him).  Seriously, you just pointed to Marsh(one of the people who spearheaded a coup against Jon), as one to have been around him a lot-the man has made perfectly clear he views what Jon is doing to be the colossal detriment to the watch, hell even to the point of betrayal of its core ideals, Jon had every reason to think it likely Marsh would try something drastic  if Jon went further-which Marsh did when Jon declared his intent to break his oaths. Jon's fate at the end of ADWD was due to hubris-if he had 5 or 6 body guards with him he may very well not have gotten stabbed. 

Daenarys survived Mero's attempt to kill because of white-beard-she was foolish to have went out into Mereen, her newly conquered city, without a guard. 

Jon's stabbing in ADWD doesn't show how his situation was more dire than Daenarys(who herself nearly died from an assaination attempt), but merely commiting the same sin as Daenarys in ASOS-not doing basic safety precautions, because they feel no need. These aren't complex acts that each character failed to do, but it very well may have cost them their lives.

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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4 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Jorah was a cynical man until he met Daenerys.  He found someone bigger and greater than himself to believe in so he no longer wallows in his own misery.  

He's still cynical in general. His infatuation with Daenarys I always got the feeling it had more to do with her status as a Targyen princess/Queen from the beginning. He did bank-rupt his house to keep his trophy wife and only ditched her when she became a slave(when she finally lost her value). 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

This is one of the reasons why I think Daenerys should be trained in arms. When you don't have a dragon or Ser Friendzone, you need something else, like skill at arms

No. If an Assasain gets over all her body guards(warriors and soldiers skilled who've spent their entire life traing for combat), then likely Daenarys isn't going to fare much better. Also I just feel such a thing would be trying to make another Arya.  I just hate the idea of females in fantasy having to display some sort of warrior prowess and/or hate their gender and traditional seen feminine things because they're feminine to be strong(to which in the show was nauseating clear it thought strong women hate feminine things). 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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On 9/8/2018 at 11:14 PM, Sigella said:

But it to me it simply can't compete with playing Astapor like Dany did. How she won the Unsullied is pretty much the cleverest move by any character.

It's one of the most improbable events in all of ASOIAF. Even small time beginner gunrunner selling his first MAC-10 would know better than Kraznys, who is in the Unsullied/slaves business for decades. That was silly writing in my opinion.

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4 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

He doesn't have body guards in any sense, largely the people around him either aren't obligated to protect his life and/or could be reasonably be feared to despise him to the point where they may choose not to protect him or kill him themselves(seriously he's letting in the savages who murdered and tortured their friends and tried to murder them-he can't rely respect the chain of command to shield him).  Seriously, you just pointed to Marsh(one of the people who spearheaded a coup against Jon), as one to have been around him a lot-the man has made perfectly clear he views what Jon is doing to be the colossal detriment to the watch, hell even to the point of betrayal of its core ideals, Jon had every reason to think it likely Marsh would try something drastic  if Jon went further-which Marsh did when Jon declared his intent to break his oaths. Jon's fate at the end of ADWD was due to hubris-if he had 5 or 6 body guards with him he may very well not have gotten stabbed. 

Daenarys survived Mero's attempt to kill because of white-beard-she was foolish to have went out into Mereen, her newly conquered city, without a guard. 

Jon's stabbing in ADWD doesn't show how his situation was more dire than Daenarys(who herself nearly died from an assaination attempt), but merely commiting the same sin as Daenarys in ASOS-not doing basic safety precautions, because they feel no need. These aren't complex acts that each character failed to do, but it very well may have cost them their lives.

If Jon is attacked there are people that would come to his defense is what I’m saying, but yeah he doesn’t have people around him all the time with the purpose of guarding him, besides Ghost. Jon definitely underestimated Marsh tho he did act rather irrationally and will probably be killed in the next book.

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Why do people love Dany?

Because we do.  

  1. Courage - she has plenty.
  2. Intelligence - she's very smart.
  3. Beauty
  4. Charm
  5. Leadership - she's an awesome leader.
  6. Coolness - she's the coolest character.  Mother of Dragons, dragon rider, the Khaleesi, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms.  
  7. Morality - she wants to free the slaves.  She can be ruthless when necessary.  She will punish the baddies.  

I love her for all of the listed reasons.  

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On 9/11/2018 at 3:51 AM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

No. If an Assasain gets over all her body guards(warriors and soldiers skilled who've spent their entire life traing for combat), then likely Daenarys isn't going to fare much better. Also I just feel such a thing would be trying to make another Arya.  I just hate the idea of females in fantasy having to display some sort of warrior prowess and/or hate their gender and traditional seen feminine things because they're feminine to be strong(to which in the show was nauseating clear it thought strong women hate feminine things). 

My point is that she'd be able to fight if necessary. She doesn't have to be on the front lines, but you have to defend yourself somehow. If someone pops up in the night as Marillion did to Sansa, there's not always going to be someone around to protect you, so you might as well do it yourself.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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On 9/10/2018 at 3:38 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Jon's not dripping in plot armor; he's dripping blood from a whole bunch of stab wounds. And then a whole bunch of other stuff...

 

This is one of the reasons why I think Daenerys should be trained in arms. When you don't have a dragon or Ser Friendzone, you need something else, like skill at arms. 

"Oh, so you think he's dead?" ;)

Edited by TheThreeEyedCow

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On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 6:34 PM, King_of_Ashes said:

She is literally a bad ruler and an unstable character especially on the show....

First of all, this is not the show, please separate the books from the books.

I don't think she is a bad ruler. She is still young and still learning. She inspires a lot of people and has a lot of people following her cause. These are good qualities for a leader. The problem with her rulership is that she wants to peacefully resolve the chaos in Slaver's Bay, but she can't. These slavers won't change and you can't just simply change the economical system. She has put herself in an impossible system because she wanted peace ant fire and blood… but this didn't work, not with these people.

 

I also don't think she is unstable. She has her temper but she doesn't have sudden mood changes or something and she is troubled by violence commited by other people and herself. She is not crazy.

For why people love her... well she has a great character arc, especially in the first book where she is first introduced. First impressions are always key. Besides, she is compassionate, strong-willed and has empathy with other victims of abuse and rape. She truly tries to do good with leading her people and freeing the slaves. She is flawed with the execution of this but her heart is in the right place. Her character is also surrounded with a lot of magical aspects of the sotry like her dragons, the HoTU and Quaithe.

 

I like her too. She is not of my favourites but I still like her. I don't think she will go 'mad' as some people believe.

What I have a problem with is the characters and environments in her story. Her supporting cast is very weak in comparison to other characters. She is so removed from the rest of the characters, tbh I don't really care what happens to these people. Also there are some racist aspects of her storyline, especially with the Dothraki.

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On 9/8/2018 at 11:55 PM, Varysblackfyre321 said:

And Jon would've been killed by Rattleshirt if Ygritte did not intercede on his behalf. Jon would have died if Aemon did not send word to Malister about Slynt's plan to hang him for being a wildling loving oath-breaker. Was saved by Stannis who had attacked Mance's camp on the exact day Jon was sent to assainate Mamce. And he would have likely been hung if Sam didn't fear-monger to Malister and Pyke with the idea Stannis would appoint the other if they didn't vote for Jon. 

There are plenty of charachters you can point to which have been saved multiple times by others and often owe their advancement entirely to others or chance in general.

Bad way to measure luck. 

:agree:

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On 9/12/2018 at 7:45 AM, Texas Hold Em said:

Why do people love Dany?

Because we do.  

  1. Courage - she has plenty.
  2. Intelligence - she's very smart.
  3. Beauty
  4. Charm
  5. Leadership - she's an awesome leader.
  6. Coolness - she's the coolest character.  Mother of Dragons, dragon rider, the Khaleesi, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms.  
  7. Morality - she wants to free the slaves.  She can be ruthless when necessary.  She will punish the baddies.  

I love her for all of the listed reasons.  

Being the leading character earns her extra points.  1, 2, 3, 5, and 7 helps greatly towards her popularity.

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1 hour ago, Nami said:

She's very relatable in the books.

Relatable?  I like her but unsure about her relatability.  Her goals are so big.  The average person doesn't come close to thinking they can change the world.  She's more of an inspiration.  The idol that some people dream they could be.  The teenagers of real life are not thinking world justice.  

She's not the only one who many may find not easy to relate.  Arya is too out of the ordinary for anybody to relate to.  A ten your old serial murderer is not something you would run across in one lifetime.  I would worry if someone tells me they can relate to Arya.  Mance Rayder is so skilled as to be ridiculous.  He's the Jason Bourne of asoiaf.  A lot of men might relate to the freedom lifestyle but reality kicks in.  Law and order start looking mighty good.  

Edited by Captain Dietrich

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1 hour ago, Captain Dietrich said:

Mance Rayder is so skilled as to be ridiculous. 

But could he out sing Rhaegar? the free folk didn't seem overly impressed when Mance was singing in his tent, but then again, what do a bunch of wildlings know of vocal talent? I give Mance a pass for not turning heads when he sang at Winterfell for Bob, I'm sure he didn't want to stand out and draw too much attention to himself in that particular situation.

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On 9/29/2018 at 12:27 AM, Captain Dietrich said:

Relatable?  I like her but unsure about her relatability.  Her goals are so big.  The average person doesn't come close to thinking they can change the world.  She's more of an inspiration.  The idol that some people dream they could be.  The teenagers of real life are not thinking world justice.  

She's not the only one who many may find not easy to relate.  Arya is too out of the ordinary for anybody to relate to.  A ten your old serial murderer is not something you would run across in one lifetime.  I would worry if someone tells me they can relate to Arya.  Mance Rayder is so skilled as to be ridiculous.  He's the Jason Bourne of asoiaf.  A lot of men might relate to the freedom lifestyle but reality kicks in.  Law and order start looking mighty good.  

She's relatable because she was put in an awful situation she had no control over and tried to survive it. She was completely alone and sold by the only family she's ever known. Yes, I think she is inspiring and personally I think she's relatable.

I think many people have been through some terrible moments in their lives when  the only thing they could do was to find strenght within themselves to make it through another day. And that's basically Dany's struggle in book 1 and her inner thoughts throughout that book. After that we're just watching what she's becoming, and going after the only purpose she has left, considering her lineage.

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