US Politics: Donnie and the Mystery of the Anonymous Op-Ed

[DMC]

3 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

If someone ever tells me I'm pro abortion though I immediately correct them, "I'm against abortion but I'm for the right to choose."

I don't mean to single you out - at all - but this is what really grinds my gears about the pro-life/pro-choice dynamic.  It's a bullshit dichotomy that needs to end.  Over the years I've known many women that have had to endure this horrible decision, and you know what?  The type of liberalism that states "I'm personally against abortion but I respect their right to choose" is analogous to the soft bigotry of low expectations.  It guilts them into making the "right" decision - ofttimes more convincingly than billboards on the highway and protesters outside the clinics.  It influences the decision-making of young women with their entire life ahead of them in a way that is not fair.  So you know what?  Fuck the "pro-choice" framing - and fuck Steven Levitt's questionable statistical analyses while I'm at it.  I am Pro Abortion, and if you want to respect a woman's right, so should you.

[Zorral]

40 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I've always thought there was a correlation here. Furthermore, it's worth pointing out that a lot of anti-choice people don't want to ban abortions nationwide, they just want to return it to the state level which implies they really want to just ban them for the poor. Rich girls can always just fly to CA to get it done.

Also of note, as I've said numerous times, their corresponding policies will lead to.........more abortions, including those incredibly safe back alley abortions. 

This dovetails with what the author of the white Heartland memoir mentioned above: she got out of her family's generational rural poverty by aggressively getting higher education and aggressively (i.e. actively) refusing to have children, which latter has to mean birth control and, not unlikely as during a life's sexual activity even the most conscientious use of contraception is like to suffer at least one failure, an abortion.

[Zorral]

It's the relentless drumbeat from the anti-reproductive rights people that created the whole idea that women suffer terrible regret and guilt from having terminated voluntarily a pregnancy.  A few do, perhaps. 

But throughout history the vast, vast, vast majority of women who have successfully terminated an unwanted pregnancy felt nothing except relief -- and probably even joy.

This is what the anti-reproductive rights people honestly cannot stand -- how dare a woman refuse to carry a fetus to term and ruin her life, and maybe even the lives of the other members of her family, particularly her daughters. The toll that pregnancy takes on a woman's body, particularly among the millions of women without adequate nutrition -- that these pregnancies have taken on women throughout all of history -- is what is criminal.

I have known many, many women who have had abortions and not a single one suffered ANYTHING from having had it.  But I have many women who are mothers and who have and still are suffering from having that child -- even when they wanted that child.  Especially in this country where prenatal and postnatal care for both women and the infants is so goddamned expensive and lousy -- and increasingly difficult to even access, as there are no medical facilities within reasonable distance -- particularly for women's reproductive, pregnancy health, and other female medical matters.

Moreover anyone who can say abortions are  "... basically always the result of something negative - a woman being raped, a couple being careless or irresponsible . . ." knows frackin' nothing about sex, contraception or women or how any of this works.

In this country for generations most women having abortions are married.  They just can't afford another child for health and financial reasons, either this time around, or maybe ever.

 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

42 minutes ago, DMC said:

I don't mean to single you out - at all - but this is what really grinds my gears about the pro-life/pro-choice dynamic.  It's a bullshit dichotomy that needs to end.  Over the years I've known many women that have had to endure this horrible decision, and you know what?  The type of liberalism that states "I'm personally against abortion but I respect their right to choose" is analogous to the soft bigotry of low expectations.  It guilts them into making the "right" decision - ofttimes more convincingly than billboards on the highway and protesters outside the clinics.  It influences the decision-making of young women with their entire life ahead of them in a way that is not fair.  So you know what?  Fuck the "pro-choice" framing - and fuck Steven Levitt's questionable statistical analyses while I'm at it.  I am Pro Abortion, and if you want to respect a woman's right, so should you.

I get what you're saying, and you're not wrong in the larger sense, but this might be a bit harsh. I know women who have said they would never get an abortion, but absolutely support every woman's right to do so and think that the people who want to ban them are scum. That was basically my college sweetheart's stance. I think the better way to articulate it, especially in a political setting, is just to use the old line of "I'm pro choice and I want them to be safe, legal and rare." I know you know this, but people have to remember that while there are way more people who support absolute abortion rights than there people that want to ban them, the largest group which is a plurality want abortion rights with varying levels of restrictions, and you don't want to risk alienating them. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

40 minutes ago, Zorral said:

This dovetails with what the author of the white Heartland memoir mentioned above: she got out of her family's generational rural poverty by aggressively getting higher education and aggressively (i.e. actively) refusing to have children, which latter has to mean birth control and, not unlikely as during a life's sexual activity even the most conscientious use of contraception is like to suffer at least one failure, an abortion.

I'm a bit confused by this. I get what you're saying, but not really where you are going.

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I think the better way to articulate it, especially in a political setting, is just to use the old line of "I'm pro choice and I want them to be safe, legal and rare." I know you know this, but people have to remember that while there are way more people who support absolute abortion rights than there people that want to ban them, the largest group which is a plurality want abortion rights with varying levels of restrictions, and you don't want to risk alienating them. 

We live in a world of upside down politics.  Do I suggest every MC in a swing district or Dem Senator in a Trump state go out and proclaim herself "pro abortion?"  Of course not.  But just as Medicare for All and Abolish ICE, I think it'd be a good start on the fringes.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, DMC said:

We live in a world of upside down politics.  Do I suggest every MC in a swing district or Dem Senator in a Trump state go out and proclaim herself "pro abortion?"  Of course not.  But just as Medicare for All and Abolish ICE, I think it'd be a good start on the fringes.

I agree, though I wonder how well attacks will work that cite the fringe positions. It might not even matter in this bizarro world we find ourselves in, 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I agree, though I wonder how well attacks will work that cite the fringe positions. It might not even matter in this bizarro world we find ourselves in, 

In terms of votes, no one's going to care about abortion.  In terms of money, it's still important.  You should know this.

[Martell Spy]

39 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I agree, though I wonder how well attacks will work that cite the fringe positions. It might not even matter in this bizarro world we find ourselves in, 

I used to think it mattered a great deal. Now, I've begun to rethink it. We live in a country where one of 2 things is going on. One possibility is we live in this severely right-wing tilted country and Democrats will get severely punished from straying from the center, while Republicans will get constantly rewarded for ever further right-wing fringe positions. Or two, we live in a country where the voters don't punish, or even reward parties for getting further away from the center, perhaps due to voter excitement. We really need to figure out which is the case by trying some things out, in particular on healthcare and wealth redistribution. The right wing has already tried it, obviously.

Also, we are in new times. It's possible we were once in scenario # 1 and are now in #2. There's a huge disconnect with how upset people are with wealth inequality and how our politics responds to the problem.

 

 

 

[DMC]

So the abortion discussion has been done and is boring.  I will take this opportunity to advertise my post on gerrymandering, which contradicts a lot of assumptions around here:

 

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I'm a bit confused by this. I get what you're saying, but not really where you are going.

Not going anywhere.  Simply stating what the deal is about women with the knowledge and the capacity to make their choice, they don't want their mothers' lives of poverty, oppression and overwork from having children that nobody can really support well enough to move up and out.

[S John]

6 hours ago, Gertrude said:

God, Trump is an ass. He has no gear other than 'promote, promote, promote'. Not news, I know, but sometimes it just hits me all over again how loathsome he is as a person.

Yea, occasionally it’ll dawn on me all over again.  Kind of goes in cycles between being used to Trump and then being disgusted by him all over again.... as well as recurring bouts of shock that so many don’t see him for the crappy human being that he so obviously is and always has been.  

Earlier today, for example, I caught some of Trump’s 9/11 remarks on NPR on the way home today and told my fiancé that if I somehow happen to die under either massively tragic or heroic circumstances that draw national attention - I don’t want that fucking scumbag at my funeral.    

I can honestly say there is not a single other president in US history that I would feel that way about.  I mean, I’ve never even had that thought before, but just listening to a clip of this oaf pontificate about 9/11 in his stupid voice made me realize that I couldn’t possibly want less to do with this guy.  While it is partly about policy, it isn’t just that.  Trump utterly lacks intellectual curiosity, empathy, and decorum and I respect him so little that I wouldn’t even be honored by a presidential eulogy if it was him that delivered it.  I hope they broke the mold when they made Trump, in that I hope we never have another president like him.  Just hoping we make it out the other side without permanent damage at this point.  

[mormont]

[mod] OK, the abortion discussion is at an end. [/mod]

[felice]

9 hours ago, Zorral said:

Now this, otoh, is truly disgusting:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/09/trump-response-to-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria-unsung-success-death-toll-3000.html

 

[ThinkerX]

The amount is relatively trivial.  Still, it is 'bad optics' and shows Team Trumps priorities.  One wonders what other shenanigans ICE might attempt with Florence:

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dem-senator-releases-documents-appearing-to-show-dhs-diverted-dollar10m-from-fema-to-ice/ar-BBNcMdW?ocid=msnclassic

 

Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) on Tuesday night released documents appearing to show the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) diverted nearly $10 million from the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

The documents, first reported by MSNBC's Rachel Maddow, detail the agency's funding redirections for fiscal year 2018 and show that millions of dollars were diverted to ICE from several agencies.

Those diverted funds, totaling $33.1 million, "will provide funding in support of higher priority detention and removal requirements than those for which originally appropriated," according to the documents

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

6 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

The amount is relatively trivial.  Still, it is 'bad optics' and shows Team Trumps priorities.  One wonders what other shenanigans ICE might attempt with Florence:

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dem-senator-releases-documents-appearing-to-show-dhs-diverted-dollar10m-from-fema-to-ice/ar-BBNcMdW?ocid=msnclassic

 

 

 

It's really not trivial.  That money could have done a lot for people in Puerto Rico.

[DMC]

23 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

It's really not trivial.

Yeah it's literally the antonym of trivial.

[Fez]

Florence is hitting the Carolinas and southern Virginia eight weeks before an election, with several vulnerable Republican incumbents in the area needing to shore up voter support for Trump (there's been an extremely strong correlation between Trump approval ratings and Republican vote share in most special elections and polls). They will be sounding the drumbeat for a strong Federal response, especially with Trump putting himself on the line by saying the Federal government was ready and that the Maria response was "great" (Many voters in the area haven't paid attention to Puerto Rico, but will pay attention to what happens directly to them).

So even if its not for the right reasons, hopefully there will be a concentrated, well-funded recovery effort.

[Morpheus]

Thousands dead in Puerto Rico due to mismanagement and Trump wanting to fight people who told him that they weren’t doing enough rather than heeding criticisms and the shithead still calls it an unsung success. We are well beyond “bad optics”, every action  needs to be viewed through the deaths on their hands, no amount is trivial, it is all part of the same callous, hateful agenda.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

I'm sure Trump's strong response will consist of throwing paper towels at the Carolinas and calling the job done, and then tweet about how terrible the governors of North and South Carolina are.