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aventador577

The election of the Lord Commander

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Who would have won the election without Sams interferiance?

And mabye the more interresting question. Who would have been the most qualified person for the job? Yes, I kow Jon had a very good upbringing, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a 16 or 17 year old boy.

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Tywin (LF?) was set on Slynt. But maybe Dolorous Edd. Bronze Yohn still has his son Waymar missing. He could count on a Stark who has family missing in Benjen to take reasonable measures in retrieving missing rangers. The Tolletts are sworn to the Royces. Edd says better you than me. I’m guessing this was the choice Bronze Yohn gave Edd.

ASOS Jon XII

Maester Aemon answered, from the far end of the hall. "Your name has been put forth as Lord Commander, Jon."

That was so absurd Jon had to smile. "By who?" he said, looking for his friends. This had to be one of Pyp's japes, surely. But Pyp shrugged at him, and Grenn shook his head. It was Dolorous Edd Tollett who stood. "By me. Aye, it's a terrible cruel thing to do to a friend, but better you than me."

 

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29 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Waiting for the Slynt/Marsh worshippers to pop up. 

 

"Build it and they will come." :lol:

29 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

I say Jon Snow would still be the best choice. Visionary, a unifier of people, he cares for the realm of humans, a good fighter, a brave young man.

:agree:

And so did maester Aemon, so we're in good company. 

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Slynt would've been selected.

The Wall would've been doomed.

Propably the best solution after Jon would've been Denys Mallister. But I'm glad that Jon won, he was the best decision, especially if you look at the situation he was in ( dealing with Stannis, bracing the upcoming winter, uniting the Free Folk with the 7K).

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5 hours ago, aventador577 said:

Who would have won the election without Sams interferiance?

And mabye the more interresting question. Who would have been the most qualified person for the job? Yes, I kow Jon had a very good upbringing, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a 16 or 17 year old boy.

The most qualified and the better choice would have been Ser Alliser Thorne.  

The problem with Jon was not his inexperience.  I hate to use the phrase that was coined here and often used on the forums, but it is true, Jon and the Starks have a strong pack instinct.  Jon suffers from the same pack mentality that the other Starks do.  His deepest loyalties are really to the Starks.  The Starks will support each other whether right or wrong, for the better or not.  It's what drove him to carry out the unjust execution of his fellow sworn brother, what motivated him to put aside Mance Rayder's crimes, and why he was about to attack the noble families of the north with an army of wildlings.  

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5 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

I say Jon Snow would still be the best choice. Visionary, a unifier of people, he cares for the realm of humans, a good fighter, a brave young man.

I agree.  GRRM didn't even mention anyone who would have been a better choice. 

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There are 589 potential votes. Eastwatch and Shadow Tower votes are held by their commanders. Castle Black's garrison is under 400 men, so a little over 200 votes are held by Pyke and Mallister. They got 372 votes between them, so they got around 150 votes from Castle Black. 

Slynt had 137, with a slow increase over time due to Thorne and Marsh dropping out and backing him. Yarwyck had 72 votes on his own, and dropped out without backing Slynt. In all likelyhood, most of his votes would have gone to Pyke and Mallister. 

 

I think the best option would have been Ser Glendon Hewett. Even with how Martin set up the scene for Jon to show up and pick up the gig, if the characters were allowed to make rational decisions for two seconds, I can see them coming to some sort of arrangement before the night is out. 

Pyke and Mallister don't like each other, but don't want Slynt. Ser Glendon in one of the handfull of knights in the Night's Watch, is Pyke's second in command already back in Eastwatch. Jon dislikes the man for waking him up with a kick to the ribs and would have opted to place one of his own cronies there, but still considers him a seasoned brother of the NW. This was when Glendon was escorting Slynt to Castle Black, and he took part in the defense of the Wall alongside Slynt in the time when Jon was in the hole. He is the closest thing to a friend that Thorne can claim to have on the Wall, and comes from a Reach house. He ticks all the boxes to fit the position on account of merit, and doesn't step on any landmines politically. Both in the NW and in relations to the kings in King's Landing and outside the guarded doors. 

With Pyke's and Masllister's tokens, he'll already start with more votes than Slynt has, and he is everything that Jon could have ever hoped to be and more.

 

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12 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Waiting for the Slynt/Marsh worshippers to pop up. 

I say Jon Snow would still be the best choice. Visionary, a unifier of people, he cares for the realm of humans, a good fighter, a brave young man.

Well, nobody seemed like a good option apart from Jon. Thorne is experienced, but most people would chew gravel before accepting him. Slynt is a dirty cop who would run the Watch into the ground, Pyke and Mallister don’t like each other, and Marsh would rather be killed and get turned into a wight rather than accept wildlings on the other side of the wall.

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13 hours ago, Nyrhex said:

There are 589 potential votes. Eastwatch and Shadow Tower votes are held by their commanders. Castle Black's garrison is under 400 men, so a little over 200 votes are held by Pyke and Mallister. They got 372 votes between them, so they got around 150 votes from Castle Black. 

Slynt had 137, with a slow increase over time due to Thorne and Marsh dropping out and backing him. Yarwyck had 72 votes on his own, and dropped out without backing Slynt. In all likelyhood, most of his votes would have gone to Pyke and Mallister. 

 

I think the best option would have been Ser Glendon Hewett. Even with how Martin set up the scene for Jon to show up and pick up the gig, if the characters were allowed to make rational decisions for two seconds, I can see them coming to some sort of arrangement before the night is out. 

Pyke and Mallister don't like each other, but don't want Slynt. Ser Glendon in one of the handfull of knights in the Night's Watch, is Pyke's second in command already back in Eastwatch. Jon dislikes the man for waking him up with a kick to the ribs and would have opted to place one of his own cronies there, but still considers him a seasoned brother of the NW. This was when Glendon was escorting Slynt to Castle Black, and he took part in the defense of the Wall alongside Slynt in the time when Jon was in the hole. He is the closest thing to a friend that Thorne can claim to have on the Wall, and comes from a Reach house. He ticks all the boxes to fit the position on account of merit, and doesn't step on any landmines politically. Both in the NW and in relations to the kings in King's Landing and outside the guarded doors. 

With Pyke's and Masllister's tokens, he'll already start with more votes than Slynt has, and he is everything that Jon could have ever hoped to be and more.

 

You make some good points about him being an alternative to Slynt, but as he was already in Castle Black during the battle and at the time of the election and a friend of Thorne's the only conclusion is that he was part of Slynt's faction. It doesn't seem that he would have been put forward as a candidate. 

As he is in charge of Eastwatch he still will play a part.

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On 9/14/2018 at 5:18 AM, The Sunland Lord said:

Waiting for the Slynt/Marsh worshippers to pop up. 

I say Jon Snow would still be the best choice. Visionary, a unifier of people, he cares for the realm of humans, a good fighter, a brave young man.

I wouldn't call sending the wildlings to get his sister an act to unify people.  Jon is willing to unify people and protect the realm, but only as long as it doesn't conflict with the interest of his own Stark family.  

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Slynt certainly seemed poised to take the title.

And while either Mallister or Pyke would be better qualified to lead than Jon that was a moot point as neither would agree to support the other. Jon wasn’t really the best candidate at the time, but he was the best compromise.

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Without Sam, one assumes Slynt would have won in the end - unless some other guy had caused Mallister and Pyke to choose and back a compromise candidate.

No idea about an ideal candidate. There are only old men, average men, young people, and thugs at the Wall. The quality men are all dead. Jon would have been a good choice five or ten years down the road, but not at this young age.

It may have actually best if Stannis had taken control of the Watch, putting an end to this election nonsense, making himself their new leader, or making an outsider the new commander.

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