Ser Sandor Clegane?

[Clegane'sPup]

16 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I know. But this is not necessary. The High Septon is the High Septon. The members of the Faith will follow him, especially the lower orders. He is one of them, and he knows their problems.

I'm not going to get into this for the very simple reason that I do not purchase nor do I subscribe to extra material concerning
ASOIAF.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Warrior's_Sons      iffin the link don't work do a copy paste.

For some reason Meribald knows the path to the Quiet Isle. The Elder Brother takes Brienne to the females quarters. They talk,

 

 

[Lord Varys]

8 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I'm not going to get into this for the very simple reason that I do not purchase nor do I subscribe to extra material concerning
ASOIAF.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Warrior's_Sons      iffin the link don't work do a copy paste.

For some reason Meribald knows the path to the Quiet Isle. The Elder Brother takes Brienne to the females quarters. They talk,

Not sure if you make sense here. The idea that Sandor will join the Warrior's Son is entirely based on AFfC, nothing else.

[Clegane'sPup]

2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Not sure if you make sense here. The idea that Sandor will join the Warrior's Son is entirely based on AFfC, nothing else.

Ack, I know I am ignorant. Lack comprehension skills.

Plus my inability to correctly remember situations that happen in the five books makes me foolish.

If you would be so kind as to refresh my memory as to when in AffC the idea that Sandor will join the Warrior's Son's it would be helpful.

Thanks.

[zandru]

2 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Sandor is not a nice guy. He does his job. He is big. He kills. He is cynical. He is the dog that people fear and respect & he likes it.

Well, you've left out the several times when the man breaks down. He's a lot more complex than a simple, self-satisfied killing machine. Both Thoros of Myr and the Elder Bro seemed to have taken Sandor's measure, better than any other descriptions I've read by other characters.

[Clegane'sPup]

We posters have come a long way since the opening post.

I've got one telling me Sandor is going to become a religious zealot and another telling me how complex Sandor is.

The big man has a sense of humor:

A Game of Thrones - Tyrion I    "A voice from nowhere," Sandor said. He peered through his helm, looking this way and that. "Spirits of the air!"      The prince laughed, as he always laughed when his bodyguard did this mummer's farce. Tyrion was used to it. "Down here."

 

 

[Dorian Martell's son]

15 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Assuming gravedigger is indeed Sandor and that "the hound" is dead as we are told, do you think Sandor will get knighted? 

Sinca he's living with religious people now and FotS and knighthood is heavily associated it seems a possibility, especially considering the company that visited the island, Septon Meribald who was a false knight but has become a Septon to repeny, Ser Hyle Hunt who was a bad knight but is now trying to aid Brienne with her quest. Lady Brienne Tarth, a women who is trying to be a model knight and the squire Podrick Payne.

It is as if these knights, former knight and knight to be were there to show Sandor what a true knight should be and that even bad and false knights can let go of their past  and try to do good. Meribald is especially noteworthy in this since he too has suffered a near death incident before changing his ways.

he refused to be knighted when he joined the, KG, so no chance in hell 

[The Sleeper]

Hold your horses a bit. Sandor is in hiding, it doesn't mean he has gotten pious all of a sudden. 

He was already marked for a hanging due to desertion, after Rorge picking up his helmet and the raid at Saltpans, everyone is looking for him. He really can't leave. 

[M.Alhazred]

He doesn't need it and never has.

[chrisdaw]

Yes.

[Firefae]

13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

There is no indication of that. And the man is the High Septon now. The ducks will get into line. This is not a democracy. The High Septon is the Voice of the Seven on Earth, the living avatar of the Seven.

The Elder Brother is a pious man himself, rather reluctant to allow a woman access to his monastery. Sandor needs a purpose to return into the story, and the Warrior's Sons won't only give him a purpose but also the means to finally deal with his brother. As a member of a knightly order unconnected to the corrupt and disgusting nobility Sandor could also rediscover the ideals of knighthood. The Warrior's Sons don't fight for corrupt lords, they fight for the gods. The very gods who brought Sandor back from certain death (through the healing hands of the Elder Brother).

No. The High Sparrow also tortures people and has women be publicly shamed. They go against everything The Elder Brother/ Septon Meribald stand for. Elder Brother would never give a champion to the High Sparrow, and he doesn't need to nor would he tell SC is alive and living on the QI. Besides, Elder Brother makes it very clear how kinslaying is a sin.

Besides, SRS is not Gregor Clegane anymore. He's a puppet now controlled by Cersei and Qyburn. And while people suspect SRS is Gregor, they can't be 100 % sure. And they certainly wouldn't tell The Faith. So why would they sent Sandor to fight against him?

 

Honestly Cleganebowl is one of the most ridiculous theories ever. 

 

 

[zandru]

3 hours ago, Firefae said:

No. The High Sparrow also tortures people and has women be publicly shamed. They go against everything The Elder Brother/ Septon Meribald stand for. Elder Brother would never give a champion to the High Sparrow, and he doesn't need to nor would he tell SC is alive and living on the QI. Besides, Elder Brother makes it very clear how kinslaying is a sin.

Excellent summary. Everything we've seen indicates that the Elder Brother wants to protect Sandor, to allow him to find himself, let him be accepted as part of a community. Handing Sandor over to fight to the death - and be forced to kinslay his own brother? Come on. If there's going to be a "Clegane Bowl", it would have to be under different circumstances. Radically different. Particularly since, as noted, Sandor is still seriously lame from the leg wound that nearly killed him.

[Firefae]

35 minutes ago, zandru said:

Excellent summary. Everything we've seen indicates that the Elder Brother wants to protect Sandor, to allow him to find himself, let him be accepted as part of a community. Handing Sandor over to fight to the death - and be forced to kinslay his own brother? Come on. If there's going to be a "Clegane Bowl", it would have to be under different circumstances. Radically different. Particularly since, as noted, Sandor is still seriously lame from the leg wound that nearly killed him.

I hope Cleganebowl won't happen at all. I'm actually of the ( seemingly?) unpopular opinion that Cleganebowl is really cheap.  That thing isn't his brother anymore. And besides, Sandor found a real true brother in The Elder Brother.

I think Sandor has a lot more potential than just Cleganebowl. A lot of people focus on Sandor's martial skills but forget that is actually a very resourceful and witty guy. And he would be lost with Cleganebowl because I don't think Sandor can win a fight against SRS with a lame leg.

GRRM isn't a writer who magically heals his disabled characters. Bran will never walk again, Jaime won't grow a new hand, etc. So why would he handwave Sandor's disability away?

[Springwatch]

5 hours ago, Firefae said:

GRRM isn't a writer who magically heals his disabled characters. Bran will never walk again, Jaime won't grow a new hand, etc. So why would he handwave Sandor's disability away?

Well there is Victarion. His hand wasn't restored, but it was definitely magical healing.

It's probably too early to say Sandor has a disability - he might be still healing. Even if he doesn't completely heal, it might not affect him as much as you'd think. After all, the burnt side of his face never healed - it's oozing wetness in places, and there's bone showing. He should be dead of infection by now.

[Pontius Pilate]

I don't think so.  He will become a soldier of the faith of the seven.  Another born again religious zealot who will be fighting for the high sparrow against the monarchy.

[chrisdaw]

Sandor hates liars, misrepresentation, bullshit. Thinks the knight's vows are crap, no-one cares for them, no-one sticks to them, knights are just killers who do whatever they want and the vows are a joke. This is all he's ever seen and known. So GRRM went and placed him with people who mean every thing they say, absolutely, and do exactly what they say they are going to do, fanatically. And they just so happen to have a mustering knight's order.

How do you think the Warrior's Sons are going to treat their vows? And what will Sandor think of that? Whatever else they are, the Faith are nowadays true, and that is simply incompatible with Sandor's views. He is wrong. Knighthood isn't all bad, it is at its heart a noble thing, GRRM has outdone himself articulating the case against, now comes the case for.

Sandor wouldn't kill his brother because it was immoral. So GRRM turned his brother into an enslaved demon and made killing him a moral act of mercy. Meanwhile a dying Sandor was refused mercy on the basis that he didn't deserve it. A very illiberal position for the series to take should it be allowed to stand, but it won't be allowed to stand, Arya already argued against it in thought and Sandor will disprove it in deed. When Ser Sandor armoured in his faith destroys the seemingly invincible UnGregor in defence of Sansa's honour the moral of the story will be everyone deserves mercy and the judgement of their maker.

And that Cersei is a fucking witch who cavorts with necromancers and demons.

[Rufus Snow]

9 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

How do you think the Warrior's Sons are going to treat their vows? And what will Sandor think of that? Whatever else they are, the Faith are nowadays true, and that is simply incompatible with Sandor's views.

The Warrior's Sons and the Poor Fellows are the taliban of Westeros - I don't think any good whatsoever is coming out of the Faith Militant. Sandor's earlier opinions on knights are going to be child's play compared to his future views on the Faith Militant. The Faith are no more true than they've ever been, they've just taken on a different flavour of corruption is all.

I can't see Sandor joining - he's never shown any gratitude before, so i don't think Elder Brother's healing is going to shunt him towards the Faith Militant. His BS detector is the most advanced in the whole of the 7K.

[chrisdaw]

28 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

The Warrior's Sons and the Poor Fellows are the taliban of Westeros - I don't think any good whatsoever is coming out of the Faith Militant. Sandor's earlier opinions on knights are going to be child's play compared to his future views on the Faith Militant. The Faith are no more true than they've ever been, they've just taken on a different flavour of corruption is all.

I can't see Sandor joining - he's never shown any gratitude before, so i don't think Elder Brother's healing is going to shunt him towards the Faith Militant. His BS detector is the most advanced in the whole of the 7K.

The end game will be religious extremism is bad but its not going to come about in an instant. They're going to be very strong and very true for a long while before that point is made.

You're wrong, the faith are now true believers. It is a point in the book that has been long coming, articulated succinctly in Tyrion's quote about preferring a Septon who diddles with boys to a true believer. The High Septon scrubs floors and routinely rips the skin from his back because it makes him feel closer to god, there is no pretence, no bullshit.

Sandor is going to be attracted the Faith militant for the very reason I wrote. They are to knights and vows and combat what Sansa is to the nobility. And they're going to start by defending the weak which is his whole hang up, that everyone is a bully like his brother and why wasn't anyone there to defend poor little Sandor when he was young and helpless? There is no bullshit, they are true. Zealots are zealots because they are true. They will restore his faith in knighthood.

In the end it will be a lesson for Sandor as much as anything else, when religious extremism becomes the threat to the realm Sandor will come to respect a bit of pragmatism.

[Rufus Snow]

6 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

The High Septon scrubs floors and routinely rips the skin from his back because it makes him feel closer to god, there is no pretence, no bullshit.

Well, looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, because I think the High Sparrow is as genuine as a nine-bob-note. I think it's ALL pretence, ALL bullshit. He's making a power play as much as any Lannister. He talks the talk, but I don't trust him as far as I could spit him.

IMHO zealots are zealots because they believe playing the 'god card' excuses any excesses they want to indulge in.

And I still hold that Sandor will be the first person 'in world' who'll call their bluff, he'll be the little boy calling the emperor naked....

[chrisdaw]

1 hour ago, Rufus Snow said:

Well, looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, because I think the High Sparrow is as genuine as a nine-bob-note. I think it's ALL pretence, ALL bullshit. He's making a power play as much as any Lannister. He talks the talk, but I don't trust him as far as I could spit him.

IMHO zealots are zealots because they believe playing the 'god card' excuses any excesses they want to indulge in.

And I still hold that Sandor will be the first person 'in world' who'll call their bluff, he'll be the little boy calling the emperor naked....

The word zealot already has a meaning and it isn't that. What in the text lends any credence to them not being zealots?

GRRM wrote this.

Quote

"Give me priests who are fat and corrupt and cynical," he told Haldon, "the sort who like to sit on soft satin cushions, nibble sweetmeats, and diddle little boys. It's the ones who believe in gods who make the trouble.

The Faith militant history. He gave us Lancel. He gave us Meribald. And he gives us an implacable HS.

He's even provided an opposition in Benerro. Mel obviously too is a true believer.

[zandru]

I haven't seen any indication at all that the Quiet Isle and the believers on it have anything to do with the power plays, or even the hierarchy of the Sept of the Seven. The Quiet Isle serves the smallfolk of the surrounding area, growing and distributing food to those in need. The Elder Brother heals whenever he can. They don't strut around proseletizing; they don't condemn the sinners; they do not have a militant wing at all, nor do they seem inclined to set one up. Some of their members were knights, others were in too many battles, and I have little doubt there are a large number of boys orphaned by war who have sought refuge, peace, and support there as well.

The High Sparrow and the Elder Brother have come across as opposites. One is politically motivated to gain power and impose his -- er, "the gods'" will. The other displays the goodness of the gods by his works. You can go down the line.

The Quiet Isle will not participate in the militant wings, nor will Sandor become a bloodthirsty zealot, taking up his sword to further the power of the Big Sparrow in King's Landing.

3 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

When Ser Sandor armoured in his faith destroys the seemingly invincible UnGregor in defence of Sansa's honour ...

I've got to apologize for my rudeness, but this scenario just seems laughable to me. Sandor isn't going to hear about "Sansa" (aka Baelish's Bastard) -- to the contrary, she will be hearing about him, and how he's gone criminal and is killing, raping, and ripping women apart with his teeth. Of course, we the readers know it's actually Rorge, and later Lem Lemoncloak -- but Sansa won't know that. How will she react to the stories?

I also don't see where the Faith of the Seven would have any reason to defend Sansa Stark against the Iron Throne. She's nothing to them, and everyone knows the Starks all worship the old pagan tree gods.