NFL 2018 Week 2 thread: The continuing saga of Josh Gordon

[Jaime L]

5 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

Just pointing out that Mahomes and Watson have balled out while Mitch has been very meh. Given that the former two had solid track records in college while the latter did not, it’s fair to point out that the Bears made a big mistake in taking him over the other two.

I still don't understand the argument for why Trubisky would be taken ahead of those guys at the time. He had a one season resume which is pretty damn rare among guys taken in the first round, let alone 2nd pick overall. There's Mark Sanchez which should be a cautionary tale in and of itself. And Cam Newton, a freak. Trubisky is not especially big, not freakishly athletic. The rep, I guess, was he was more polished than the more accomplished, more athletic QBs taken after him (Watson and Mahomes), but a) not sure how 13 games is enough of a resume to convince yourself of that and b) just watch the guy and he's not polished at all. 

I guess he's a throwback. In that he looks like a rookie QB from the 90s before rule changes and offensive innovations made the game easy mode for passers. 

 

[DanteGabriel]

Another fun part of the AB drama is that some former Steelers PR employee tweeted that he's so lucky to be playing with Pig Ben and he'd have crappy numbers elsewhere. AB responded "trade me and find out."

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/17/antonio-brown-to-twitter-critic-trade-me-find-out-how-id-do-elsewhere/

Holy fuck, what kind of operation has some former PR flunkie publicly shitting on one of their best players? It's beautiful.

[dbunting]

So what is everyones take on Josh Gordon in NE? Will he be 2013 Josh or what we have seen since then? It has been 4 seasons since he has truly been a player in the NFL on a regular basis. Can he have enough self discipline to fit in with Belechik and Brady, two guys who demand it, or will it drive him off the deep end? 

[DanteGabriel]

2 hours ago, dbunting said:

So what is everyones take on Josh Gordon in NE? Will he be 2013 Josh or what we have seen since then? It has been 4 seasons since he has truly been a player in the NFL on a regular basis. Can he have enough self discipline to fit in with Belechik and Brady, two guys who demand it, or will it drive him off the deep end? 

I'd say there's at least a 50% chance he doesn't make it through the season on the roster. If he stays on the field, he's much more likely to replicate Chad Johnson's NE career than Randy Moss's. Just don't see him learning the playbook and earning Brady's trust while keeping his shit together.

 

[Jace, Extat]

Josh Gordon will eclipse 500 yards receiving...

IN THE PLAYOFFS

[Bronn Stone]

2 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Josh Gordon will eclipse 500 yards receiving...

IN THE PLAYOFFS

Of course, he'll be playing for the Patients League at the Betty Ford Center.

[briantw]

5 hours ago, dbunting said:

So what is everyones take on Josh Gordon in NE? Will he be 2013 Josh or what we have seen since then? It has been 4 seasons since he has truly been a player in the NFL on a regular basis. Can he have enough self discipline to fit in with Belechik and Brady, two guys who demand it, or will it drive him off the deep end? 

Gordon is the epitome of the phrase "million dollar body, ten cent brain."  I'd be a little surprised if he's ever able to keep it together for more than a couple of games at a time.

But hey, the talent is certainly there, so you never know.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, briantw said:

Gordon is the epitome of the phrase "million dollar body, ten cent brain."  I'd be a little surprised if he's ever able to keep it together for more than a couple of games at a time.

But hey, the talent is certainly there, so you never know.

I'd push back on this. I've seen him do interviews and he comes off as smart, sharp and likable. What he is is an addict, and he has seemingly failed to cope with this. I can empathize with him because I also have an addictive personality. It's why I don't gamble anymore, because when you lose close to $1,000 in less than 60 seconds, you need to stop. 

[briantw]

3 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I'd push back on this. I've seen him do interviews and he comes off as smart, sharp and likable. What he is is an addict, and he has seemingly failed to cope with this. I can empathize with him because I also have an addictive personality. It's why I don't gamble anymore, because when you lose close to $1,000 in less than 60 seconds, you need to stop. 

I'm not saying that he's unintelligent in that manner, but rather that he has consistently made awful decisions for years now and it has literally cost him tens of millions of dollars.  He just doesn't have his head on right and, given that he disappeared from the team for several weeks during the preseason to cope, I don't think he ever will.

[Nictarion]

3 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I'd push back on this. I've seen him do interviews and he comes off as smart, sharp and likable. What he is is an addict, and he has seemingly failed to cope with this. I can empathize with him because I also have an addictive personality. It's why I don't gamble anymore, because when you lose close to $1,000 in less than 60 seconds, you need to stop. 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, briantw said:

I'm not saying that he's unintelligent in that manner, but rather that he has consistently made awful decisions for years now and it has literally cost him tens of millions of dollars.  He just doesn't have his head on right and, given that he disappeared from the team for several weeks during the preseason to cope, I don't think he ever will.

I mean sure, but some people literally cannot control themselves. Addiction is covered pretty heavily in both behavioral and personality psych courses, and I've seen some insane examples. Gordon came along after I graduated and I wouldn't be shocked if he used in most lectures on the topic these days.

In his defense though, the two things that really cost him the most were pretty minimal IIRC. The first was a test sample just over the limit with the b sample being under it, and wasn't he also crushed for having a beer on a flight after the season?

Also, it was shocking to learn that the NFL is stricter than the military is when it comes to drug testing.

[Jace, Extat]

2 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I'd push back on this. I've seen him do interviews and he comes off as smart, sharp and likable. What he is is an addict, and he has seemingly failed to cope with this. I can empathize with him because I also have an addictive personality. It's why I don't gamble anymore, because when you lose close to $1,000 in less than 60 seconds, you need to stop. 

Strike shit down me on some sheeit!

Alls I is 2-0 EXPERT

EXPERT

EXPERT

Fight Milk!

CAWWW

FIGHT LIKE A CROW

[Nictarion]

Nobody other than @Mexal will probably care, but I just thought I’d share this. It’s pretty great. 

 

[sperry]

3 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I mean sure, but some people literally cannot control themselves. Addiction is covered pretty heavily in both behavioral and personality psych courses, and I've seen some insane examples. Gordon came along after I graduated and I wouldn't be shocked if he used in most lectures on the topic these days.

In his defense though, the two things that really cost him the most were pretty minimal IIRC. The first was a test sample just over the limit with the b sample being under it, and wasn't he also crushed for having a beer on a flight after the season?

Also, it was shocking to learn that the NFL is stricter than the military is when it comes to drug testing.

I actually don't think those are in his defense. I think those are indicative of him just being an idiot. He's not a junkie getting a fix, he's just doing dumb crap.

[briantw]

11 minutes ago, sperry said:

I actually don't think those are in his defense. I think those are indicative of him just being an idiot. He's not a junkie getting a fix, he's just doing dumb crap.

Plus, it's not as if it's particularly difficult to pass NFL piss tests.  I'd wager half the players in the NFL smoke (and the number is probably significantly higher...puns), but the number of guys who can't pass a piss test is in the single digits.  

[briantw]

13 minutes ago, Triskjavikson said:

Which is interesting to evaluate if you're a GM.  If you think it's more of a person with a serious addiction getting a fix you might have more empathy but also worry about what the odds for a turnaround are.  

If you think he's just being an idiot you might see that is less of a problem or more depending on your priors.

 

On the Trubisky / Mahomes / Waston from upthread:  I do not think Mahomes is just off to a hot start.  He looks amazing.  His physical tools are off the charts, and while sure, he has a very good situation, he's not surviving in it.  He's killing it in his first NFL games.  Who does that?  

Watson is sure off to a slower start this year and we'll see.  

It is quite suspicious in hindsight though that Biscuit was taken ahead of them.  Not that he didn't look pretty solid at UNC, but I don't think he looked much different than 5-10 top college QB's any given year whereas Mahomes had crazy physical skills plus crazy stats and Watson had utterly dominated college with better physical tools than Biscuit.  Hate to say it, but don't think it's impossible to rule out some racism (also not saying that's the explanation, just that it can't be ruled out).  Also possible that the Texas Tech thing factored against Mahomes a bit, but given his pedigree and tools I would hope NFL scouts wouldn't fall for that.

Even though I ripped on him a bit this weekend I do think though that Trubisky looks solid so far this year...a chance he'll stick.  Just that's it's amazing if one did a redraft of these three right now how distant of a third place he'd be.  

Well, Watson fell at least in part because his throw velocity was absolutely godawful.  He threw it at 49mph, which is 2nd percentile (not a typo).

Not defending Trubisky going second, though, because that was a huge reach.

[briantw]

36 minutes ago, Triskjavikson said:

I had not heard that stat about Watson, and it surprises me not based on what I saw in college but what I saw last year when he was really starting to get it going.  Swear I saw him slinging it plenty hard.  Wonder if I'm crazy or if he found a way to improve in that year.

Watson does a lot of damage because he's so mobile, and he avoids tackles until his receivers (of which he has one of the best in the NFL in Hopkins) can get open.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Strike shit down me on some sheeit!

Alls I is 2-0 EXPERT

EXPERT

EXPERT

Fight Milk!

CAWWW

FIGHT LIKE A CROW

No more drugs for Jace!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 hours ago, sperry said:

I actually don't think those are in his defense. I think those are indicative of him just being an idiot. He's not a junkie getting a fix, he's just doing dumb crap.

I disagree. If you’re the type of addict I think Gordon is, it’s really hard to control yourself in the moment. You can actively think you don’t want a drink as your hand pours you a glass.

[sperry]

3 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

I disagree. If you’re the type of addict I think Gordon is, it’s really hard to control yourself in the moment. You can actively think you don’t want a drink as your hand pours you a glass.

Then how did he have so little? Having a small indicates control. Addict relapse move is to do fine for 6 months and then go off the rails on a binder.