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Ramsay as Warden of the North

Giant Ice Spider

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On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 4:01 AM, Giant Ice Spider said:

Maybe. Perhaps people would be so relieved that he didn't live up to their expectations they wouldn't notice. But if his eyes seemed paler … no, I think they would notice that. They wouldn't put two and two together (they have no reason to suspect that it's still Roose), but they could think maybe it's Ramsay who's up to evil sorcery. That would be problematic for Lord Bolton.

All that being said, if Bolt-On is true then perhaps part of the reason Roose hates Ramsay so much is he loathes the idea of having to mimic Ramsay's bad behaviour. "No tales were ever told of me," he says in Reek III. Perhaps he's angry he can't keep it that way.

Ramsay's eyes are already very pale, like chips of dirty ice. Several people have remarked at how similar they are too Roose's alread, including Roose himself:


"I should have had the mother whipped and thrown her child down a well … but the babe did have my eyes. She told me that when her dead husband's brother saw those eyes, he beat her bloody and drove her from the mill."

So at best his eyes are only a slight shade darker than Roose's, which is something you'd only notice when they were standing next to each other. And since it would be utterly preposterous to think that Roose is now occupying Ramsay's body or that some other sorcery as afoot, most people would simply chalk it up to their imagination. Remember, Roose has been doing this for thousands of years and nobody has ever caught on.

I don't get the sense that Roose hates Ramsey, or anybody else. Like Lady D says:


Roose has no feelings, you see. … He does not love, he does not hate, he does not grieve. This is a game to him, mildly diverting. Some men hunt, some hawk, some tumble dice. Roose plays with men. You and me, these Freys, Lord Manderly, his plump new wife, even his bastard, we are but his playthings.

Like you said, I think most people will be relieved that Rams has calmed down. They certainly wouldn't jump to the wild conclusion that his body has been switched.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/18/2018 at 6:56 PM, The hairy bear said:

The title of Warden is not automatically inherited. We know that because when Jon Arryn dies, Robert tells Eddard that he is considering to name Jaime Warden of the East.

There's no other option in the North, however. In the west you have Westerlands and the Reach. In the south there's Dorne and Stormlands. In the East there's the Vale of Arryn and Stormlands. And the Riverlands' Lord could serve as a Warden in any direction. In the North, you only have the rulers of Winterfell or the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, who can't serve as a Warden of the North and get involved in politics. How are you going to name a Warden of the North who isn't even in the North? If they pick, say, Jaime, he can't even get past the Neck, much less occupy the North and rule its subjects. The best they could hope for is to appoint a different Northerner, say Manderly, as Lord Paramount, and divest Winterfell of its ruling position. But then good luck getting the ruler of Winterfell in his strategically awesome position to go along with that.

It's going to be Ramsay, no matter what the Crown might otherwise desire. Besides, they don't exactly know what he's like and would probably just appoint him as a matter of routine paperwork drill.

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  • 1 month later...

i like the idea that ramsey removes some elements from the great hall that the roof collapses and buries Roose and some of the lords and ladies of the north.

annother possibility would be roose getting killed in the siege of winterfell by stannis, while ramsey oes back to the dreadfort.


anyways, i hope ramsey will become lord of the dreadfort, he would be such a good "last Bolton" for songs and stories

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