What Would Robert Have Done Had He Acknowledged The Truth?

[Ylath's Snout]

8 minutes ago, PrinceHenryris said:

I don't understand why so many are worried about Jaime.  Robert is not Wyman Manderly.  He still rides and hunts.  He may not be what he was on the Trident, but he killed a boar while mortally wounded.  If we factor in the warhammer versus sword dynamic, the fight's a lot closer than many people would think.

Good point, still considering that both Jaime and Robert would be in "pretty" emotional so making any assumption on how a fight would go is risky at best.

6 minutes ago, PrinceHenryris said:

As for the Crown owing money to the Lannisters, what better way to erase the debt than erasing the Lannisters?

I don't think Robert would "do a Tywin" to the Lannisters. Killing Cersei and Jaime sure but killing all of Tywin's relatives once they are captured seems out of character for Robert and his forgiving ways.

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On a side note, would a Arianne-Robert match be even remotely plausible in this scenario?

Would Doran care so much about a Targ restoration after Tywin faces justice?

Some Pros I can see:

• Arianne is slightly older than Margaery so if the reveal happens early enough the Tyrell rose might be too young to get with the baby making ASAP.
• She is Dornish so she might be able deal with Robert less-than faithful nature better than Cersei was.
• It would heal the split between the rest of the realm and Dorne. Helping the Seven Kingdoms move on.

Some Cons:

• Dorne can't offer a lot to Robert beyond it's loyalty. From my understanding Robert's Rebellion seems to have broken Dorne and it still hasn't recovered.
• The bad blood between House Martell and Robert may make the marriage as toxic as the Cersei-Robert one.
• Snubbing the Tyrells seems like a bad move.

[hodorisfaclessman]

1 hour ago, PrinceHenryris said:

 

I don't understand why so many are worried about Jaime.  Robert is not Wyman Manderly.  He still rides and hunts.  He may not be what he was on the Trident, but he killed a boar while mortally wounded.  If we factor in the warhammer versus sword dynamic, the fight's a lot closer than many people would think.

As for Tywin, I'd worry even less.  As many have pointed out, the Tyrells would have Margery on the road to KL before the Ravens had plucked out Cersei's eyes, and she'd probably have a nice big army, ready to support Robert with her.

With the Tyrells in the fold, we'd be looking at Tywin versus the Crownlands, Stormlands, Reach, Vale, Riverlands and the North.   I sincerely doubt Dorne would help Tywin.  If Doran did anything, he'd probably send troops to support the Crown against Tywin. 

Who knows what Balon Greyjoy will do, but are the Iron Islands aren't enough to tip the battle?

As for the Crown owing money to the Lannisters, what better way to erase the debt than erasing the Lannisters?

Agree with all that apart from top part

Got era Robert vs jamie is a massive mismatch, the mans too fat to even get his armour on and jamie is rightlybacknowledge as one of if not the premier   warrior in westeros at that point

He rides and hunts yes but so do many old lords ,a warhammer doesnt offer any kimd of advantage over a sword (if any) thats gonna fix mismatch...better gloves than the ufc champ doesnt guarantee a win over one

[Ylath's Snout]

30 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

,a warhammer doesnt offer any kimd of advantage over a sword (if any) thats gonna fix mismatch...better gloves than the ufc champ doesnt guarantee a win over one

You underestimate how much better of a weapon a warhammer is when fighting a person in full plate armor than a longsword. A warhammer is built for breaking or bypassing armor while someone using a longsword has to aim for specific weak points like eye-slits or joints. To go along the UFC comparison Jaime would be using boxing gloves and Robert a punching dagger. Sure Jaime might still win but gearwise he is much worse off.

[Three-Fingered Pete]

3 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

You underestimate how much better of a weapon a warhammer is when fighting a person in full plate armor than a longsword. A warhammer is built for breaking or bypassing armor while someone using a longsword has to aim for specific weak points like eye-slits or joints.

You also have to gauge your combatants. I think we all can agree Robert would fly off the handle in some way and violence would ensue.

Robert is pissed, possibly drunk and sans armor or at least a full kit due to his girth, and a longsword has better reach. For the record, they did produce swords with reinforced armor piercing tips (I own one) that could puncture plate armor on a solid thrust, but it took a rather skilled blacksmith. We have no idea what the specifics of Jaimie's sword were before he was given the VS made from Ice.

I suppose then that it would've been Jon Arryn's plan to somehow lure the King away from KL and his "family" on some pretense serious enough to get him out of the city, but boring enough that he could leave the Queen and kids behind, along with the members of the KG that he felt were too much Lannister creatures.

If it were me, I suppose I'd try to get Ned Stark in on it (not Stannis) and set up a council session at Riverrun (with the promise of plenty of hunting and revelry) ostensibly to discuss the disposition of Theon Greyjoy now that he was coming of age and whether they thought Balon would be a problem concerning it. Then I'd drop the bomb and try to get a "reasonable" angry response from Robert leading to the dispossession of the Queen and her brood, and I suppose, war on the Lannisters.

 

[Ylath's Snout]

36 minutes ago, Trefayne said:

For the record, they did produce swords with reinforced armor piercing tips (I own one) that could puncture plate armor on a solid thrust, but it took a rather skilled blacksmith. We have no idea what the specifics of Jaimie's sword were before he was given the VS made from Ice.

Yeah I never said is was impossible to use a Longsword versus a armored opponent just harder than someone equipped with weapons more suited to the job. Can you cut down a tree with a sword? Sure, but a saw will be better for it. 

We never learn of any special swords, armor piercing or otherwise, in the books aside from Valyrian Steel and castle-forged steel. The first is clearly not something Jaime has access to as getting a Valyrian Steel sword is a major goal for Tywin during the time-frame we are talking about. The latter is implied to be of better quality than regular steel but not to the point of bypassing armor with little effort.

[Three-Fingered Pete]

27 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Yeah I never said is was impossible to use a Longsword versus a armored opponent just harder than someone equipped with weapons more suited to the job. Can you cut down a tree with a sword? Sure, but a saw will be better for it. 

We would also have to assume that Robert's armor (if any) was superior and not like the stuff Dunk picked up before Ashford Meadow, which while solidly made, was not fit for a king.

Of course, if I was Jamie in the mindset he was in at the time and I had the time to prepare, I think I would take the ironic approach and go skewer Robert with an armored boar spear.

[hodorisfaclessman]

5 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

You underestimate how much better of a weapon a warhammer is when fighting a person in full plate armor than a longsword. A warhammer is built for breaking or bypassing armor while someone using a longsword has to aim for specific weak points like eye-slits or joints. To go along the UFC comparison Jaime would be using boxing gloves and Robert a punching dagger. Sure Jaime might still win but gearwise he is much worse off.

You overestimate it man , its better while horsed but on foot its the weaker choice 

If robert hits jamie with such a legendary heavy hammer it could end it in one but he hasnt been in the yard in years  he may not be able to even lft it let alone use it quick enough to avoid death......hes simply  not landing that killing shot on a younger faster man esp when hes so badly out of shape ,even in his youth he may not have taken a young jamie let alone now.

Jamies at books start is  probably the most lethal one on one  combatant in all of westeros ,robert isnt top ten at that stage anymore

You can see modern knight fighting constests where plate or not you can knock someone senseless or down (death in a real fight)  with a longsword in  seconds (try youtube 'longsword fight murder blow' for a brutal example ) as well as kill with halfswording or injure at joints if such things were legal etc! 

 

Now rememeber we are talking asoiaf where armour doesnt seem to matter as much too!

[Ylath's Snout]

7 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Jamies at books start is  probably the most lethal one on one  combatant in all of westeros ,robert isnt top ten at that stage anymore

Sure Jaime going by pure physicality is at an advantage but Robert isn't some cripple. Add to that all sorts of x-factors like the mental state of both combatants and the like and the outcome is far from guaranteed one way or the other. Jaime isn't a demi-god or Wuxia action hero after all.

Can't help but think that it wouldn't matter much anyway. The other King's Guard should either kill/imprison Jaime before Robert can risk his life and if Bobby B did get got then they'd be right there to cut down the Kings Slayer.

7 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Now rememeber we are talking asoiaf where armour doesnt seem to matter as much too

Yeah... but clearly we are pretty far from the books at this point so we can freely ignore GRRM and his "don't matter" attitude to castles and armor.

18 minutes ago, Trefayne said:

We would also have to assume that Robert's armor (if any) was superior and not like the stuff Dunk picked up before Ashford Meadow, which while solidly made, was not fit for a king.

Yeah I don't see the King's Guard allowing Robert anywhere near a proper fight without getting him into some armor that fits him. 

[hodorisfaclessman]

1 hour ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Sure Jaime going by pure physicality is at an advantage but Robert isn't some cripple. Add to that all sorts of x-factors like the mental state of both combatants and the like and the outcome is far from guaranteed one way or the other. Jaime isn't a demi-god or Wuxia action hero after all.

Can't help but think that it wouldn't matter much anyway. The other King's Guard should either kill/imprison Jaime before Robert can risk his life and if Bobby B did get got then they'd be right there to cut down the Kings Slayer.

Yeah... but clearly we are pretty far from the books at this point so we can freely ignore GRRM and his "don't matter" attitude to castles and armor.

 

Hes not but hes still one of the top 3 fighters in all of planetos at that point , robert by contrast hasnt even trained in years ....itd be a comical mismatch 

Theres always an xfactor yes bit its like a top ranked boxer taking on a former washed up champ whos been out of training for a decade and has gotten fat ,slow and lazy in that time ! ....and in this robert isnt gonna have months for a rocky style montage to get back into shape

Kg would help if they hand time and robbie bothered to summon them ..apart from  blout and trant who  are loyal to lannisters ,but barristan would obey and  is their overall  comander  and  the others have no dog in this fight so would obey too. 

Well its grmms world so we always have to talk about the rules his world obeys

[Three-Fingered Pete]

1 hour ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Yeah I don't see the King's Guard allowing Robert anywhere near a proper fight without getting him into some armor that fits him. 

Well, if they had managed to get Robert into my plan at Riverrun, they could have had Wyman Manderly send down a set from his slightly more svelte days that probably would have fit nicely. That is, if Robert was in a real hurry to get going, which I'm sure he would be.