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Three-Fingered Pete

What Would Robert Have Done Had He Acknowledged The Truth?

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4 hours ago, Trefayne said:

Honestly, I could see him acting petulantly and elevating one of his bastards and causing the War of Five Kings (or several in any case) anyway.

That.

 

And I think he would have executed Ceseri, Jaime, Tywin, all the kids and any other Lannister he could lay hands on.

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15 minutes ago, EloImFizzy said:

I feel like unhappy or greedy Lords would be willing to back anyone if it meant getting into power. I know it isn't as extreme as this case, but half the realm backed Daemon Blackfyre for various reasons, some where unhappy with the Dornish influences in court, and some thought Daemon the rightful ruler because he was given a sword. 

Blackfyre had some claims like being given a important relic liked to Targ legitimacy and being recognized by Aegon.

Joff would be incredibly disgraced and undercut by Robert declaring him a Abomination.

15 minutes ago, EloImFizzy said:

Due to this Ned might not feel the need to force Arya into an unwanted marriage, since he already has four other children to marry off for political reasons.

Unless something real crazy happiness then sure Ned might not need Arya for a political marriage but I don't think he could really grasp the idea of Arya living a full life outside of marriage.

15 minutes ago, EloImFizzy said:

I mean hell Brienne was an only child, and her father let her do what she wanted. 

Brienne's dad is the only lord outside of Dorne that is shown to give that kind of freedom to his daughter and once the story gets rolling she is outside his reach. So not a great indication of how most lords are expected to act.

15 minutes ago, EloImFizzy said:

For Arya I think the perfect match would have been someone like Edric Dayne. 

Doesn't have to be Ned Dayne specifically but yeah Ayra's pool of potential husband she won't stabb is likely located entirely in Dorne.

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Ned knew what Robert would do, which is why he warned Cersie.  

Robert would have had Cersie's head on a spike, in a rage, he would have wanted to fight Jamie one on one.  He certainly wouldn't have cared about the money he owed Tywin and would have loved the opportunity to get into a war with the Lannisters since he only felt alive when fighting. 

I don't think he could kill the kids. 

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24 minutes ago, Trefayne said:

Perhaps. I've always had the impression that Stannis had just about come to the end of his rope concerning his brother. The incest rumor just gave him a good excuse, otherwise why leave KL before there was real proof and before Robert was dispatched?

Besides, without Robert's belief of the truth, it was Stannis who was in jeopardy in KL. And Mesilandre was exerting influence over Stannis. She must have had something to do with him holing up in Dragonstone. He may have been a zealot regardless.

Nope complete misreading of stan the man . He went as  he probably (incorrectly) supected jon arryn had been killed by lannisters  for their joint snooping on bastards  and he could be next,ned had been named as hand so any prospect he had of ending the rot in kl direct had gone. He said himself he respected bed but never warmed to him so they wernt close enough to disclose such an odd sounding thing about the to royal family

He was never a zealot thats the tv show stannis 

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3 minutes ago, Chris Mormont said:

Ned knew what Robert would do, which is why he warned Cersie.  

Robert would have had Cersie's head on a spike, in a rage, he would have wanted to fight Jamie one on one.  He certainly wouldn't have cared about the money he owed Tywin and would have loved the opportunity to get into a war with the Lannisters since he only felt alive when fighting. 

I don't think he could kill the kids. 

Agreed he had known robert his whole life....the man was all action and consequences later and with a huge temper ...the kind that drove the already huge sob in battle to shatter men!

He prob couldnt have hurt the kids himself but  your right hed have wsnted a scrap with jamie and his desire to confront jamie may have ended in his death if no one was there to calm him 

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My expectations: Cersei executed, kids too - Robert never showed them any affection that I can see; yes, he'd slug it out with Jaime, and Tywin can kiss his gold goodbye. That debt will never be repaid by Robert.

I think Renly's plan for Margaery would be likeliest - Robert I think would want to try a new queen for legitimate kids before resorting to legitimising the Storm boy (and also a new alliance against Tywin). I think so long as his brothers are still alive, Robert would leave them as his heirs over any bastard he might make good.

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So in this scenario I don't think Robert would be well-served by Stannis as an heir. After all Stannis only has one child, seems unwilling to get more and she is a woman.

In the shit-'ead patriarchy of Westeros a ruling Queen won't fly.

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Interesting and fun topic to think about 

 

i think Robert would pull a Tywin and it would be the end of house Lannister. 

I don’t think he would let one single Lannister live. He wouldn’t care about the debt when no one is around to collect it. 

Renly would push Margery onto Robert. Then he would have the Tyrell gold to fund him and the Tyrells get to become royalty. Which is what they want the most. 

 

I think the biggest problem is Jaime. How would he deal with him? Renly, stannis or Ned should convince him that he’s no match for Jaime. Then again, how would Robert take that news? 

 

I dont think he would hurt the kids. He’d strip them of any claim to the throne and ship them off to live in exile

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It depends on who was around him and when, where it happened.  Let us suppose the following for the sake of this argument.  Jon Arryn was still alive.  Ned Stark was on hand.  Hoster Tully was still alive and also near.  The knowledge came at a remote location where Robert cannot readily call the banners to war.  He will have time to cool off.

Robert would rage.  Jon Arryn, Ned Stark, and Hoster Tully would try to calm him down.  The three men would do what they can to avoid war.  But I can't see any of them allowing the Lannisters to take the throne.  Robert will shout and rage.  He may even cool off.  

Do I see him letting matters continue for the sake of keeping peace with his banker and father-in-law?  Not a chance.  Jaime, Cersei, and their children will be dead.  We like to think morality wins out.  But there is masculine pride to think about and Robert is a manly kind of man.  Getting cuckolded is not an easy truth for a man to accept.  Sure, he was running around on Cersei but this is the age of inequality.  

The Lannisters will be dead.  Tywin and Tyrion Lannister will rebel and take to the field against the Baratheons.  Balon will see his big chance and rebel against the Baratheons.  Doran, Varys, Illyrio, and King Viserys III will rejoice.  

Edited by Sire de Maletroit

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9 hours ago, Trefayne said:

Robert may have been brash, but I don't think he would have gone against the Lannisters without getting his ducks in a row first. I'm assuming in this scenario that Jon Arryn successfully informed and convinced the King of the truth without the opposition knowing about it. We know what happened when they found out first.

I’m still not completely sure how Robert would be convinced. If it’s based on their appearance, it’d be like saying that of Ned’s children with Catelyn, only Arya would be legitimate. 

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6 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I’m still not completely sure how Robert would be convinced. If it’s based on their appearance, it’d be like saying that of Ned’s children with Catelyn, only Arya would be legitimate. 

That is an issue, one I assume Jon Arryn had worked out since he pursued the matter like he could get results from the findings. Why proceed, let alone let Stannis in on it, unless he felt it would be believed or at least questioned seriously?

Like I asked in the OP: Just what would have Jon Arryn advised Robert to do about it?

Edited by Trefayne

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3 hours ago, Sire de Maletroit said:

Robert would rage.  Jon Arryn, Ned Stark, and Hoster Tully would try to calm him down.  The three men would do what they can to avoid war.  But I can't see any of them allowing the Lannisters to take the throne.  Robert will shout and rage.  He may even cool off.  

This raises what I like to think about.  Let's say Ned was alive - but Hoster was on his deathbed and Arryn was dead, as in the circumstances of the first 600 pages of GoT.  I think that'd be fine with Brynden and the Tullys, but a question I've never been convinced about is would Ned be able to raise the Vale following Littlefinger's machinations even if he had the backing of all three Baratheon brothers?  Still gotta figure Doran would sit on his hands, and as long as Robert's alive I think that's Balon's tack too.  So, the difference would lie in Robb's mistakes, really.  And who holds KL, of course.

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I think it all depends on the specific circumstances, but Cersei, Jaime and their kids are definitely dying. If Robert can get his hands on Cersei or Jaime when he finds out then I think he'd attempt to do the deed himself. As has been said before that could end in him being killed by Jaime. When it comes to kids... they have to die. Same as Daenerys. Robert wouldn't do it himself just as he wouldn't kill Dany himself and wouldn't have killed Aegon or Rhaenys himself... but he can give the order. They'll be taken outside by the headsman and executed. Quiet, clean, and fast, and any guilt Robert might feel about it will just be redirected at the Lannisters for subjecting him to it just as he re-directed his guilt over Rhaenys and Aegon onto Dany and Viserys.

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That does remind me.  Ned has a..special view of Robert.  Robert would have wanted to fight.  Instantly.  I disagree with any arguments to the contrary.  So that means this is very much dependent on where he is when we assume he survives.  Even if he's in the Kingswood, it's notable that he was with Yohn Royce.  

So, Robert's insistence contradicts the Tyrell's as players.  Robert's survival mean Renly backs down.  And dude just got cuckolded in a..really weird way.  Don't think he's entertaining any marriage pacts at that point that entail a portrait that purportedly looks like Lyanna.  Think he's figuring him, Ned, and whatever Riverlanders they can muster are gonna go kill Tywin Lannister.  And they would.

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It would have been WAR . Everybody vs the Lannisters . Dorne for Elia and her children , the Reach , Mace Tyrell would send Margaery to King's Landing before Cercei's chair was cold . The North the Starks hate the Lannisters , the Vale and the Riverlands blood ties to the Starks ,The Crownlands payback for the sack of King's Landing , and the Iron Islands good old LOOT .

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Are people really proposing a marriage between Robert and Arya?

 

The most important rule when dealing with a king with no true born heir is that king will be on shaky ground as long as he has no male heir. Arya would be FAR too young to evrn be considered, and if Ned doesn't want Arya marrying Robert in the impossible situation that such a marraige would suggest, any southern army would never make it past the neck.

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Since the OP's original question assumes that the revealation happened before Jon Arryn died, the simple answer would have been war, ending with Cersei's, Jaime's, and Tywin's heads decorating spikes.

I don't understand why so many are worried about Jaime.  Robert is not Wyman Manderly.  He still rides and hunts.  He may not be what he was on the Trident, but he killed a boar while mortally wounded.  If we factor in the warhammer versus sword dynamic, the fight's a lot closer than many people would think.

As for Tywin, I'd worry even less.  As many have pointed out, the Tyrells would have Margery on the road to KL before the Ravens had plucked out Cersei's eyes, and she'd probably have a nice big army, ready to support Robert with her.

With the Tyrells in the fold, we'd be looking at Tywin versus the Crownlands, Stormlands, Reach, Vale, Riverlands and the North.   I sincerely doubt Dorne would help Tywin.  If Doran did anything, he'd probably send troops to support the Crown against Tywin. 

Who knows what Balon Greyjoy will do, but are the Iron Islands aren't enough to tip the battle?

As for the Crown owing money to the Lannisters, what better way to erase the debt than erasing the Lannisters?

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