How will Robb Stark be remembered as in the long line of Stark Kings (and Lords)?

[The_Eagle_Lord19]

He's going to be a hero in history. He rebelled against a vicious tyrannical king that murdered his father. He was 16 and won every single battle that he commanded. Even stannis in sos notes to jon; Robb's skill at arms. The fact that he was betrayed and murdered will endorse his place in history. Especially if Jon snow becomes king.

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 9/19/2018 at 6:15 AM, honorable men said:

I'm also talking about the repercussions long term.

This should have been in your first post. 

[Vaegon the dragonless]

He would likely be remenbered to something close to Daeron I. A young and very skilled warrior-king that ultimatly dies and not succed. But if one thing will be remenbered about him, it would be is death as is death marks the end of guest rigth south of the Neck. He will be this tragical figure with flawes.(sorry for the bad english)

[Bernie Mac]

6 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Ultimately, I think he'll just become a footnote in history: the Young Wolf who dared for a kingdom and lost. But, granted, that's more than what most Stark lords get, including Ned.

Ned was the ruler for almost two decades, was a high ranking commander in two major civil wars, one of which saw the first Dynasty change of Westeros, became Hand, had his daughter betrothed to a future king who he then tried to coup and his arrest and execution kicked off the war of the five kings. 

Ned will absolutely be of more historical significance than his son who ruled for less than a year. The only way Robb becomes more important to historians is if the Boltons or another House end up ruling the North. as the Stark who broke 6 thousand years of rule will be hugely important.

 

6 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

The war of 5 kings is the biggest and most significant occurrence in Westeros history; Robb was the most interesting character

Robb's not even the most interesting person in his family, let alone the war of the five kings. 

 

On 9/19/2018 at 6:01 PM, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

 to others he'll be remembered as the Young Wolf, who never lost a battle.

What battles did Ned ever lose? Or Rickard, or Cregan? I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that a large amount of rulers never lost a battle, most of them ruling for a darn sight longer than 10 months. 

[Hugorfonics]

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Robb's not even the most interesting person in his family, let alone the war of the five kings. 

Hes not as interesting as Bran Arya or Catelyn, but theyre not famous. 

Hes way more interesting then Joff Renly or Balon. Maybe Stannis would turn heads with his fun religion and kinslaying, but thats still not as interesting as Greywind or the RW

[Tana Snow]

"I have fought beside the Young Wolf in every battle," Dacey Mormont said cheerfully. "He has not lost one yet."

[Bernie Mac]

8 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Hes not as interesting as Bran Arya or Catelyn, but theyre not famous. 

How is the wife of one Great Lord and the daughter of another not famous?  You seem to forget that Cat was involved in the war before her son was, with her capture of Tyrion being one of the actions that instigated the war. On top of that her role in the series may not be over. 

Given that both Bran and Arya are still alive there is every chance that they, and Rickon, will eclipse Robb's. 

And you also forget Sansa, betrothed to the king, married off to the king's uncle, possibly involved in the king's death, possibly ends up married to the Lord of the Vale. 

 

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Hes way more interesting then Joff Renly or Balon.

Renly I will give you but

• Balon was crowned twice, a feat no other has done the last three centuries, was a key figure in two civil wars. From a historical point of view he is going to be of far more significance. 
• Joffrey was king, he is hands down going to be of more interest to history than a pretender to the North. There would be interest in his birth, who actually is his father, his victory on the Blackwater and more importantly his assassination after he had won, his death involves guest rights and kinslaying. 

 

Quote

 

Maybe Stannis would turn heads with his fun religion and kinslaying, but thats still not as interesting as Greywind or the RW

You are confusing a Stark centric pov structure novel with history. 

Stannis will have lived twice as long as Robb, who will only be considered important for less than a year of his life. Stannis has been involved in three major civil wars, playing pivotal roles in two of them. 

There are plenty of figures from the series who are going to be of more historical significance than Robb, at least one of his siblings will, certainly his father, debatably his mother and bastard brother, three of the other five kings, Cersei, Tywin, Tyrion, Jaime. Mace, possibly Littlefinger and Varys. 

 

Robb will be lucky if history will see him on similar terms to Owain Glyndŵr (who was rebelling for 15 years rather than 1)

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

13 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

 

 

What battles did Ned ever lose? Or Rickard, or Cregan? I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that a large amount of rulers never lost a battle, most of them ruling for a darn sight longer than 10 months. 

And this changes how history will remember Robb, how exactly? If you don't think Robb will be remembered by some as a King who never lost a battle but lost a war, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Bernie Mac]

4 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

And this changes how history will remember Robb, how exactly?

Nothing has changed, history rarely remembers short term pretenders. 

4 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

 

If you don't think Robb will be remembered by some as a King

No, he likely will not be remembered as a king,  nor will Renly for that matter. Both were briefly pretenders who's 'kingdom's' quickly reverted back to the crown. 

4 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

 

who never lost a battle but lost a war,

As leader of the North he actually lost quite a few battles. 

It is strange that in the  fandom everyone recognizes that the Whispering Woods, Oxcross and Camps all count as defeats for Tywin yet for some reason the same is not true for Robb and Winterfell and Green Fork. 

Robb, as the overall commander of the North, lost battles. 

In fact as treacherous and underhand as it was the red wedding was a battle, a hugely one sided one, but a battle nonetheless. 

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1284/

GRRM also mentioned that certain battles were much more brutal than others. The battle at the Freys was very bloody, while the battle in front of Winterfel was not.

 

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Lord Walder raised a hand, and the music stopped, all but one drum. Catelyn heard the crash of distant battle, and closer the wild howling of a wolf. Grey Wind, she remembered too late. "Heh," Lord Walder cackled at Robb, "the King in the North arises. Seems we killed some of your men, Your Grace. Oh, but I'll make you an apology, that will mend them all again, heh." -- Cat

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The second tent took fire, and then the third. The screams grew so loud she could hear words through the music. Dark shapes moved in front of the flames, the steel of their armor shining orange from afar.

A battle, Arya knew. It's a battle. And the riders . . .

She had no more time to watch the tents then. With the river overflowing its banks, the dark swirling waters at the end of the drawbridge reached as high as a horse's belly, but the riders splashed through them all the same, spurred on by the music. For once the same song was coming from both castles. I know this song, Arya realized suddenly. Tom o' Sevens had sung it for them, that rainy night the outlaws had sheltered in the brewhouse with the brothers. And who are you, the proud lord said, that I must bow so low? - Arya

 

 

If history is looking to celebrate an actual Stark who suffered no defeats then Ned is their man. 

 

[Hugorfonics]

55 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

How is the wife of one Great Lord and the daughter of another not famous?  You seem to forget that Cat was involved in the war before her son was, with her capture of Tyrion being one of the actions that instigated the war. On top of that her role in the series may not be over. 

Given that both Bran and Arya are still alive there is every chance that they, and Rickon, will eclipse Robb's. 

And you also forget Sansa, betrothed to the king, married off to the king's uncle, possibly involved in the king's death, possibly ends up married to the Lord of the Vale. 

Sansa is the main character of asoiaf, I have little doubt that she'll end up more famous then Aegon the dragon. 

By the end of the series theres a good chance Robb will be less famous then most of his family, but as of now he is more. And even if he gets eclipsed by his family, he'll always have Greywind and the Redwedding. Both astonishingly interesting

55 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Renly I will give you but

• Balon was crowned twice, a feat no other has done the last three centuries, was a key figure in two civil wars. From a historical point of view he is going to be of far more significance. 
• Joffrey was king, he is hands down going to be of more interest to history than a pretender to the North. There would be interest in his birth, who actually is his father, his victory on the Blackwater and more importantly his assassination after he had won, his death involves guest rights and kinslaying. 

 

You are confusing a Stark centric pov structure novel with history. 

Stannis will have lived twice as long as Robb, who will only be considered important for less than a year of his life. Stannis has been involved in three major civil wars, playing pivotal roles in two of them. 

There are plenty of figures from the series who are going to be of more historical significance than Robb, at least one of his siblings will, certainly his father, debatably his mother and bastard brother, three of the other five kings, Cersei, Tywin, Tyrion, Jaime. Mace, possibly Littlefinger and Varys. 

 

Robb will be lucky if history will see him on similar terms to Owain Glyndŵr (who was rebelling for 15 years rather than 1)

Balon and Joff are interesting, sure. But they dont fight theyre own battles with their sigil by their side. Theyre deaths were fun, but not as fun as Robbs.

Stannls is fun, will definitely be famous. But i think your underestimating Robbs fame. The entire north and riverlands have very strong feelings about him.

At the end of the series, maybe Stannis will eclipse his fame, almost definitely Tyrion and Cersei will. (Theyre probably more famous now) I disagree with the rest of your list, (except Sansa) but whatever.

Never heard of Owain Glyndwr. Hes worth looking up?

[Angel Eyes]

2 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

 

 

If history is looking to celebrate an actual Stark who suffered no defeats then Ned is their man. 

 

I don't remember Ned being in charge of any battles. 

[Brandon Ice-Eyes]

Robb Stark in my opinion will most likely be remembered similar to William Wallace.  A man who was the pioneer of independence in his nation and lost but died a martyr. Don’t get me wrong, the other kings won’t be forgotten but robbs story is far more tragic and entertaining.

[John Suburbs]

17 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Ned was the ruler for almost two decades, was a high ranking commander in two major civil wars, one of which saw the first Dynasty change of Westeros, became Hand, had his daughter betrothed to a future king who he then tried to coup and his arrest and execution kicked off the war of the five kings. 

Ned will absolutely be of more historical significance than his son who ruled for less than a year. The only way Robb becomes more important to historians is if the Boltons or another House end up ruling the North. as the Stark who broke 6 thousand years of rule will be hugely important.

I'm not talking about the immediate future; I'm talking hundreds of years from now, when everyone who experienced these times is long dead.

Only a handful of Lord Starks (or Lord Anyones) are remembered to this day, except by historians, and many of them undoubtedly fought in wars and led great hosts. Ned was instrumental in overthrowing the Targ dynasty, but Robert will go down in history as the man who did that, not Ned. And even after that, the status of the North did not changed, since Winterfell still owed fealty to the Iron Throne.

Robb, meanwhile, was the first Stark to declare himself king in 300 years, so just for that he will be remembered more than Ned. But neither are likely to become towering historical figures because their achievements all came to naught.

Robb may get a song, but Ned is unlikely to.

 

[Apoplexy]

I think it depends on who ends up in the throne eventually. Robb will likely be remembered as a hero in the north, but if the people writing the history do not look kindly upon the Starks, he'll likely be remembered as someone who rebelled and died.

[Bernie Mac]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Sansa is the main character of asoiaf, I have little doubt that she'll end up more famous then Aegon the dragon. 

By the end of the series theres a good chance Robb will be less famous then most of his family, but as of now he is more.

op is asking if he will be remembered. That is what I was replying to. And no, Robb has not become more famous than his father. 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

 

And even if he gets eclipsed by his family, he'll always have Greywind and the Redwedding. Both astonishingly interesting

All his siblings had pet direwolves. 

Robb has the Red Wedding, Sansa has the purple wedding, historically the Purple will carry more weight. 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Balon and Joff are interesting, sure. But they dont fight theyre own battles with their sigil by their side. Theyre deaths were fun, but not as fun as Robbs.

Well Joff was involved in the battle of blackwater, depends how history wants to spin it while Balon has commanded battles.

There is nothing noteworthy about leaders commanding battles, the vast majority did so. It is not like we are talking Robert levels of participation either but Robb safely protected by his many bodyguards. 

It is not something unique to Robb so I find it hard to see why him being on the battle field will single him out amongst the many other Stark rulers who will all have done the same. 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Stannls is fun, will definitely be famous. But i think your underestimating Robbs fame. The entire north and riverlands have very strong feelings about him.

Yeah, you are over exaggerating here. 

• Riverlands: Throughout the Arya, Brienne and Jaime chapters in the Riverlands one thing is abundantly clear, the populace are sick of both Lions and Wolves. Robb may have saved the Tully nobility but instead of remaining in the Riverlands to kick out the Lannisters he instead went West leaving his foot to join in the Lannisters in pillaging, plundering and even raping from the smallfolk. This is one of the worst periods in Riverland history, they are not going to be fondly thinking of any of the leaders. It will be Robert who they will write songs for as his rule will be utopia in comparison. 
• The North: is fractured. Given Winterfell was poorly defended and destroyed under his rule it is hard to think he will be fondly remembered, the Stark who brings peace will be glorified but under Robb the North was a shit show. Same goes for Hornwood, the people on the coast who were attacked and pillaged by the Ironborn. The people in the Bolton lands are not going to be singing songs for him nor will the people in the Karstark lands. If remembered he is going to be a divisive character in northern folklore, the North, like the Riverlands, is about to be hit hard and Robb putting revenge and the game of thrones above prepping for winter has left the North badly exposed.

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

At the end of the series, maybe Stannis will eclipse his fame, almost definitely Tyrion and Cersei will. (Theyre probably more famous now) I disagree with the rest of your list, (except Sansa) but whatever.

lol you really think Robb is going to be more famous than Tywin? He has been a major player in the realm for forty years, his 20 years as Hand or 30 as Warden are going to trump Robb's very brief time as a pretender/king of the North. 

Stannis is already more important to history than Robb, by some margin. 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Never heard of Owain Glyndwr. Hes worth looking up?

Sure, if you like Henry IV and V then their contrasting methods of dealing with the Welsh is pretty fascinating, if you are looking for bigger picture he is loosely tied to the Tudors and the Welsh struggle is an indirect cause of the war of the roses as Nobles were granted more powers to secure their welsh holdings allowing them to challenge central authority. 

 

 

 

 

[Euron Lannister]

depends on what the north is in the end

when the north is independent, he will be remebered very positive

when the north is part of the iron throne it will be more mixed

[Free Northman Reborn]

You need a historical perspective here. There are 7700 years of Stark Kings represented by statues in the crypts. Then you have Torhenn Stark, who is remembered by history more so than many of his predecessors,  not for any great achievements or victories won, but because he was the last King in the North and first mere Lord of Winterfell.

He was followed by a succession of lords who again are not really noteworthy, for 300 years until Robb, who was the first King who reclaimed the North’s independence. This, and not his battles or achievements, will be remembered a thousand years in the future.

And if he becomes the William Wallace to the North’s Robert the Bruce, who reclaims the North permanently, he will be doubly remembered as the one who initiated the North’s road to independence.

The number and nature of the battles he won, on the other hand, are largely immaterial in this bigger scheme of things.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 1:20 PM, Loose Bolt said:

Robb could be remembered like Alexander the Great. He conquered Riverlands and sacked Westlands and won many battles. But he died young and his empire did not survive his death and his own bloodline ended when his wife and son were murdered.

Jeyne Westerling Stark was not killed .

[Loose Bolt]

Roxana (widow of Alexander) and their son (nominal heir for empire) were murdered. Or I tried to type that Alexander was actually a loser, but somehow he is remembered with title Great. After all common thing with Robb and Alexander is that their empires did not outlive them and secondly I would not sold queen Jeyne life insurance. Or I would not be very surprised if she died very soon.

[Hugorfonics]

17 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

op is asking if he will be remembered. That is what I was replying to. And no, Robb has not become more famous than his father. 

All his siblings had pet direwolves. 

Robb has the Red Wedding, Sansa has the purple wedding, historically the Purple will carry more weight. 

John Suburbs detailed above why Robb will be more famous then his pops. Basically its regality. People remember kings

But not all his siblings are kings.

The RW has way more weight then the purple. The RW ended the war, decemated an army and gave everyone in westeros a healthy loathing for Freys. The purple just replaced one child king with another, its like Disenchampment "Dont be sad, she would have left him for me anyway"

17 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Well Joff was involved in the battle of blackwater, depends how history wants to spin it while Balon has commanded battles.

There is nothing noteworthy about leaders commanding battles, the vast majority did so. It is not like we are talking Robert levels of participation either but Robb safely protected by his many bodyguards. 

It is not something unique to Robb so I find it hard to see why him being on the battle field will single him out amongst the many other Stark rulers who will all have done the same. 

Right, history can be spun however the maesters feel like it. However Oldtown aside, Robb did fight more then the  though. Greywind too. Robb complains that hes gotten too used to killing people

 

17 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Yeah, you are over exaggerating here. 

• Riverlands: Throughout the Arya, Brienne and Jaime chapters in the Riverlands one thing is abundantly clear, the populace are sick of both Lions and Wolves. Robb may have saved the Tully nobility but instead of remaining in the Riverlands to kick out the Lannisters he instead went West leaving his foot to join in the Lannisters in pillaging, plundering and even raping from the smallfolk. This is one of the worst periods in Riverland history, they are not going to be fondly thinking of any of the leaders. It will be Robert who they will write songs for as his rule will be utopia in comparison. 
• The North: is fractured. Given Winterfell was poorly defended and destroyed under his rule it is hard to think he will be fondly remembered, the Stark who brings peace will be glorified but under Robb the North was a shit show. Same goes for Hornwood, the people on the coast who were attacked and pillaged by the Ironborn. The people in the Bolton lands are not going to be singing songs for him nor will the people in the Karstark lands. If remembered he is going to be a divisive character in northern folklore, the North, like the Riverlands, is about to be hit hard and Robb putting revenge and the game of thrones above prepping for winter has left the North badly exposed.

I never said Robb will be remembered as fondly as St. Nick. But being loathed and creating "one of the worst parts in Riverland history" is polarizing and memorable

 

17 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

lol you really think Robb is going to be more famous than Tywin? He has been a major player in the realm for forty years, his 20 years as Hand or 30 as Warden are going to trump Robb's very brief time as a pretender/king of the North. 

Stannis is already more important to history than Robb, by some margin. 

No its not. Tywin was one out of a like ten hands under Aerys, nor did he wear any crown or have some fun fetish on the side. Tywins boring, Dragonspawn aside.

Its like Sun Ce, his rule was like as long as Robbs, and his father Sun Jian was just as famous as Ned. Now both are really only famous for being related to Sun Quan. Sun Jian defeated the Yellow Turban Rebellion and decimated the traitor of the realm on multiple battles, but he'll mostly be remembered as Quans dad. Sun Ce conquered Eastern Wu and pretty much everything south of the Yangtze in battles with Robb Stark like margins, but is only really remembered as Quans brother and his predecessor. Still, to tell the stoey of Quan must tell the story of Ce, Jian can be glossed over. To tell the story of Sansa or Rickon could begin at the RW, Neds story could be glossed over. Kings matter, Lords not so much

17 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Sure, if you like Henry IV and V then their contrasting methods of dealing with the Welsh is pretty fascinating, if you are looking for bigger picture he is loosely tied to the Tudors and the Welsh struggle is an indirect cause of the war of the roses as Nobles were granted more powers to secure their welsh holdings allowing them to challenge central authority. 

 

 

 

 

Cool, ill check him out