An evil girl's dark heart

[AlaskanSandman]

2 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Old Ghis didn't just survive the Long Night, and their empire did not collapse during it--quite the opposite they thrived during the Long Night. 
 

 

Blood sacrifice, slavery, unnameable gods of war who like burnt genital offerings, storm gods, in Greek mythology the Harpies snatched people and carried them to the Underworld to be tortured by the Erinyes (which translates to "to raise or stir strife" and the names of the Erinyes are "endless, jealous rage, and vengeful destruction").

 

The Ghiscari were sacrificing to and serving the weirwoods, that is why they thrived during the Long Night.  It could be that the Valyrians got nuked by the weirwood was because the Valyrians destroyed Ghis.

 

 

 

Sort of a side-bar but a Shrike is a bird that impales prey on thorns of trees, one kind of Shrike looks like a crow.  There is a character called the Shrike from the Iron Islands, the grey waste in Essos has the Land of the Shrykes which the Five Fort protect against, Victarion has a boat named Shrike, and Catelyn mentions snow shrikes in book 1.   

 

The Shrike from the Iron Islands was a priest of the Drowned God.   A local septon was trying to outlaw slavery on the Iron Islands, the Shrike organizes a coup d'etat and starts a war where thousands die and it is followed by a very harsh winter.  So the takeaway is, someone tries to promote the well-being and human rights of the people and is brutally taken down by a death-worshiping cult who causes untold mayhem and bloodshed, followed by a harsh winter.  The Shrike impaling prey on trees is a blood sacrifice to the weirwood.  The weirwood wants political instability, death, and destruction.

 

 

 

 

Not guaranteed. Ghis falls within the lands of always summer, the Long Night never froze that far south. Only as far to the joining of the Selhoru. 

Im greatly interested in this though if you have any threads. Im cycling through different subjects and i havn't done a full look at Ghis yet.

[AlaskanSandman]

58 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

I see it as a stark contrast to "the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives". This little lone wolf is surviving. It may even eventually serve as a further contrast if Rickon ends up being truly evil. I do not see Arya as evil, more jaded and vengeful, but not evil. 

Well you do have a point there since part of the pack got wiped out together. Though the FM could be seen as her new pack. Rickon being evil huh? I dont think i've heard that one yet. Is this due to Shaggy Dog's behavior?

[Legitimate_Bastard]

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Well you do have a point there since part of the pack got wiped out together. Though the FM could be seen as her new pack. Rickon being evil huh? I dont think i've heard that one yet. Is this due to Shaggy Dog's behavior?

Check that thread out. I'm pretty sure it was in there I saw the ideas about Rickon being evil.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Not guaranteed. Ghis falls within the lands of always summer, the Long Night never froze that far south. Only as far to the joining of the Selhoru. 

Im greatly interested in this though if you have any threads. Im cycling through different subjects and i havn't done a full look at Ghis yet.

Asshai and Yi-Ti had the Long Night too and were attacked by the "demon army," and they are further south than Ghis.  I think the entire Earth was eclipsed by the "Lion of Night" for a generation--"Maiden-Made-of-Light turned her back upon the world . . . How long the darkness endured no man can say "

I don't have any previous threads on that subject, that was off the cuff.

[AlaskanSandman]

3 minutes ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Asshai and Yi-Ti had the Long Night too and were attacked by the "demon army," and they are further south than Ghis.  I think the entire Earth was eclipsed by the "Lion of Night" for a generation--"Maiden-Made-of-Light turned her back upon the world . . . How long the darkness endured no man can say "

I don't have any previous threads on that subject, that was off the cuff.

I would argue that Asshai and what is now Yi-ti are both fragments of what used to be the Great Empire of the Dawn. Which did stretch from the Jade sea to the Thousand Islands. 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I would argue that Asshai and what is now Yi-ti are both fragments of what used to be the Great Empire of the Dawn. Which did stretch from the Jade sea to the Thousand Islands. 

It is known. 

[AlaskanSandman]

10 minutes ago, By Odin's Beard said:

It is known. 

I definitely agree that Ghis may have had something to do with early Westeros, but im just on the fence with how still. Especially with the Empire of the Dawn being around and the Realm of the Fisher Queen's. 

I suspect though that Ghis isn't that long before the Long Night started though. I think they may have been founded by the Bloodstone Emperor before the start of the Long Night and when he betrayed his sister. I suspect the person the Ghiscari worship (Grazdan the Great) and the Sarnori (Huzhor Amai) are the same person, and the founder of their cultures. The Valyrian's on the other hand, seem to have a different founder and come after the Long Night or right at it's End. Or at least the civilization we know as the Valyrians. The original people though i think may have been from Westeros and interacted with the Empire of the Dawn. Be that the Bloodstone Emperor or his sister idk, or a child of them, idk. The og Valyrians were probably drove west by the Ghiscari and their slavery. Much to look at for all of this still though. Qarth and Mereen were left out of TWOIAF for spoiler reasons, so something about those places is important for sure.

[Legitimate_Bastard]

9 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I definitely agree that Ghis may have had something to do with early Westeros, but im just on the fence with how still. Especially with the Empire of the Dawn being around and the Realm of the Fisher Queen's. 

Do you think the Sphinx's in Oldtown were left by the Ghiscari? Or are simply decorative.

[Sigella]

3 hours ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

I see it as a stark contrast to "the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives". This little lone wolf is surviving. It may even eventually serve as a further contrast if Rickon ends up being truly evil. I do not see Arya as evil, more jaded and vengeful, but not evil. 

No, Arya has been forming and reforming her pack constantly, trying not to be a lone wolf. I don't see Arya as evil either, she's been brutalised from seeing the war in the Riverlands in general and spending a week watching the Tickler do his biz in particular. Which would scar anyone.

All things considered I think for Arya revenge and murder is her only way forward - because if she doesn't focus on killing others she will kill herself. 

25 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Do you think the Sphinx's in Oldtown were left by the Ghiscari? Or are simply decorative.

Isn't sphinxes a Valyrian thing?

[AlaskanSandman]

8 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Do you think the Sphinx's in Oldtown were left by the Ghiscari? Or are simply decorative.

Well the Shpinx out side the Citadel are a male female pair like those of the Valyrians. The Ghiscari don't have a male female pair, just a female. 

 

I will shoot you these though to go with your line of thought.

 

Quote

 

While traveling Tyrion Lannister and Illyrio Mopatis come across a huge Valyrian sphinx crouched beside the road. It has a dragon's body and a woman’s face. However her king is missing, dragged off by the Dothraki back to Vaes Dothrak on wooden wheels.

The harpy is a craven thing. She has a woman's heart and a chicken's legs. Small wonder her sons hide behind their walls.^[3]

- Daario Naharis to Daenerys Targaryen

 

 

 

And i've wondered things not too dissimilar.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/149941-glass-candles-of-ghis/

 

 

Its an old thread and the first men are still Valyrian, but i wonder about Ghis and the Others. 

I have been digging deep into other possibly relevant subjects though that may or may not change those old musings. Currently im looking at Bael and his time still, as it may tie to deeper things. I have a thread im working on for that though, but it does deal with House Bolton and the Faceless Men. Partly relevant here but ill have to get to it as it comes. There is reason to speculate though that Lannister Gold was the payment for the death of the Valyrian sorcerers holding back the 14 flames. This would not be the first Lannister-Bolton deal that involved assassinating a House. Ill have that up asap though. Arya though is associated with death, as is the Corpse Queen, and the Night's King was rumored to be a Bolton (people who change skins), and Arya who is death, is now with those who can change their skins. What's more, is Ramsay Bolton also marries fake Arya. 

[Tucu]

1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Well the Shpinx out side the Citadel are a male female pair like those of the Valyrians. The Ghiscari don't have a male female pair, just a female. 

 

I will shoot you these though to go with your line of thought.

 

 

 

And i've wondered things not too dissimilar.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/149941-glass-candles-of-ghis/

 

 

Its an old thread and the first men are still Valyrian, but i wonder about Ghis and the Others. 

I have been digging deep into other possibly relevant subjects though that may or may not change those old musings. Currently im looking at Bael and his time still, as it may tie to deeper things. I have a thread im working on for that though, but it does deal with House Bolton and the Faceless Men. Partly relevant here but ill have to get to it as it comes. There is reason to speculate though that Lannister Gold was the payment for the death of the Valyrian sorcerers holding back the 14 flames. This would not be the first Lannister-Bolton deal that involved assassinating a House. Ill have that up asap though. Arya though is associated with death, as is the Corpse Queen, and the Night's King was rumored to be a Bolton (people who change skins), and Arya who is death, is now with those who can change their skins. What's more, is Ramsay Bolton also marries fake Arya. 

Aren't sphinxes valyrian symbols and harpies ghiscari symbols? We see sphinxes in the Red Keep, the Free Cities and in the Citadel. We see harpies in Slaver's Bay.

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, Tucu said:

Aren't sphinxes valyrian symbols and harpies ghiscari symbols? We see sphinxes in the Red Keep, the Free Cities and in the Citadel. We see harpies in Slaver's Bay.

Either is likely just a representation of Skinchangers

[Legitimate_Bastard]

15 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Either is likely just a representation of Skinchangers

The Wiki says:

"A sphinx is a mythical creature, made up of a bit of this, and a bit of that: a human face, the body of a lion, the wings of a hawk.^[1]

In our world, and most likely George R. R. Martin’s, some traditions believe that sphinxes take away the sins of devotees when they enter a temple and ward off evil in general. A sphinx or sphinxes are therefore often found in a strategic position, for example, near entrances or a temple gateway. Often they are found as female-male pairs. Here, too, the sphinx serves a protective function. Sphinxes always speak in riddles in the tales.^[1]

The Valyrians had their own sphinxes, referred to as Valyrian sphinxes."

 

I guess the Harpy is a monster and Ghiscari symbol.

They do seem pretty similar.

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

The Wiki says:

"A sphinx is a mythical creature, made up of a bit of this, and a bit of that: a human face, the body of a lion, the wings of a hawk.^[1]

In our world, and most likely George R. R. Martin’s, some traditions believe that sphinxes take away the sins of devotees when they enter a temple and ward off evil in general. A sphinx or sphinxes are therefore often found in a strategic position, for example, near entrances or a temple gateway. Often they are found as female-male pairs. Here, too, the sphinx serves a protective function. Sphinxes always speak in riddles in the tales.^[1]

The Valyrians had their own sphinxes, referred to as Valyrian sphinxes."

 

I guess the Harpy is a monster and Ghiscari symbol.

They do seem pretty similar.

This may be related to ancient legends though.

Durran stole the daughter of the God's. The Maiden maid of Light fell in love with Galladon of Morne. 

Meanwhile, the Corpse Queen was glimpsed from the Wall, presumably she was on the north side of it. Is the Corpse Queen Elenei? What happened to Durran? Is this why she sought out the Night's King?

Quote

While traveling Tyrion Lannister and Illyrio Mopatis come across a huge Valyrian sphinx crouched beside the road. It has a dragon's body and a woman’s face. However her king is missing, dragged off by the Dothraki back to Vaes Dothrak on wooden wheels.

Further Hugor and his bride presented by the God's but still sounds like the daughter of the God's, and they had 44 mighty sons 

Quote

The harpy is a craven thing. She has a woman's heart and a chicken's legs. Small wonder her sons hide behind their walls

 

 

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

3 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

sphinxes

I guess the Harpy is a monster and Ghiscari symbol.

They do seem pretty similar.

Also, what are those giant bat skeletons in Bloodraven's cave?  "He found chambers full of bones, shafts that plunged deep into the earth, a place where the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling."

"My old ma used to say that giant bats flew out from Harrenhal on moonless nights, to carry bad children to Mad Danelle for her cookpots"

Are sphinxes, harpies, and giant bats the same creature that abducts people and eats them/drags them to the underworld?

[Legitimate_Bastard]

6 minutes ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Are sphinxes, harpies, and giant bats the same creature that abducts people and eats them/drags them to the underworld?

Seems like it would make sense

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 9/19/2018 at 7:18 AM, SeanF said:

Morally, it was self-defence to kill the guards at Harrenhall.

Arya was not evil by nature (very much the reverse).  Her experiences might make her evil.

Some of her killings are self-defense in nature.  Her killings overseas are most definitely not self-defense.   Arya is confusing murder with justice.  

[Damon_Tor]

14 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Interesting point, Jaqen' H'ghar is already dead no? The person Arya is talking to is no one. Jaqen is some long dead man isn't he? So why he no one so afraid when Arya names Jaqen?

A Faceless Man becomes the identity he's assuming in a very real way, or at least in a way that's real to him.

[Nevets]

11 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Well something to consider is the FM and their motives, plan, and goals.

Why did Jaqen chose Arya? What is Jaqen up to?

Well we last see Jaqen in Old Town possible trying to collect the book on Dragons from the Citadel. Why? To what end?

Now there is the interesting notion that Jaqen payed pate in Blackfyre gold though it's hard to say for sure. But, surely Jaqen has a plan involving Dragon's. 

Dany has dreams of sleeping with a man with shifting faces that many have speculated is Dario. Which makes sense given his change of character and appearance. So that possibly gives the FM someone with access to Dany's dragons. Problem with Dario, is Dario can't kill Dany though as he knows her, but he can feed he dragons sheep and try to steal them. Jaqen is gathering dragon Knowledge, and Dario possibly dragons. 

Could Arya be the hitman the FM intend to send after Daenerys? She certainly doesn't know Daenerys. 

One thing to remember with Jaqen and Arya is that when Jaqen gave Arya the coin, she was intent on reuniting with her family, and considering her brother was winning, there was every reason to think she would do so.  so, unless he had foreknowledge, he had no reason to think she would end up in Braavos at all.  And if he did have foreknowledge, then the coin is merely a means of facilitating it. 

So I would guess that he figured that the last remaining Stark (which she would probably be if she arrived in Braavos) would be a useful agent for the FM.  Beyond that, I can't see a reason.

I very much doubt she will be sent after Daenerys.  The only reason for the FM to be bothered by Daenerys is her dragons, and it appears that Jaqen is on the case at the Citadel on that issue.  Otherwise, Daenerys would more likely be regarded as a potential ally, or at least friendly, considering her attitude towards slavery.

In any event, Arya is in no way sufficiently trained to be sent after anybody important, nor do I think she will be.  In fact, I think that the preview chapter for TWOW is paving the way for her separation from the FM.

[AlaskanSandman]

8 minutes ago, Nevets said:

One thing to remember with Jaqen and Arya is that when Jaqen gave Arya the coin, she was intent on reuniting with her family, and considering her brother was winning, there was every reason to think she would do so.  so, unless he had foreknowledge, he had no reason to think she would end up in Braavos at all.  And if he did have foreknowledge, then the coin is merely a means of facilitating it. 

So I would guess that he figured that the last remaining Stark (which she would probably be if she arrived in Braavos) would be a useful agent for the FM.  Beyond that, I can't see a reason.

I very much doubt she will be sent after Daenerys.  The only reason for the FM to be bothered by Daenerys is her dragons, and it appears that Jaqen is on the case at the Citadel on that issue.  Otherwise, Daenerys would more likely be regarded as a potential ally, or at least friendly, considering her attitude towards slavery.

In any event, Arya is in no way sufficiently trained to be sent after anybody important, nor do I think she will be.  In fact, I think that the preview chapter for TWOW is paving the way for her separation from the FM.

That would be interesting for the FM to know that Roose Bolton (House Bolton likes to flay people too) was planning on betraying Robb Stark and killing them. (I allude to this connection already actually)

And why not? Daenerys has a weakness for young slave girls and Dario. If Dario is a FM, then Arya can just wear his face. Just speculation though. 

But yes, seems a weird arch for her to just randomly meet a Fm, who just randomly gives her a coin, that randomly becomes useful, who randomly joins the FM, just to quit once it fill's her Health Meter for the Final level of the game. That's just such a waste of such an interesting organization, and a main character right at the heart of them.