Football: Remain in Europe

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Just now, Iskaral Pust said:

Even Suarez biting people until he got his move (and I'm convinced the WC bite was exactly for that reason) didn't create a toxic wasteland in the dressing room.

Mourinho's right to do it, but was a significant part of the problem in reaching this point.  And Poggba is transparently maneuvering for an exit.  I doubt the other players will stand behind him anyway.

I wonder how many top creative talents would be willing to sign for Utd right now.

Silly EPL money + United wage bonus. So they should find creative talent, probably not quite  in the same category as Pogba, but still good enough.

Well, Liverpool were also not too happy with Coutinho's early season injury last season, or Dortmund with Dembele and Aubameyang for that matter, although Auba got his just punishment by signing for Arsenal - I mean, who would go on strike to force a move to Arsenal of all places (j/k). But yeah, with Mourinho in the mix, that just adds at least one layer of toxcity to it.

[Mark Antony]

Harry Wilson’s free kick was nastyyy. 

[Consigliere]

I like to look at the bright side. Maybe Mourinho will finally get sacked. He's already lost certain players and it seems that more and more of the dressing room is turning against him - nothing new here. If it has to take a horror show of a season to get Mourinho out of the club, I can live with that.

[Iskaral Pust]

Harry Wilson doing a Borini there.  But at least he doesn't bite his hand for his goal celebration.  Very nice goal, had another good shot saved, caused the red card with a good run behind, and tucked away his penalty in the shoot-out.

Derby fans were complaining about him earlier in the season, but I gather he has improved in the last couple of games.

That was a pretty strong Utd line-up.  Lots of rotation from the weekend but still all experienced senior players (Dalot less experienced than most, but already hailed as a new star after Young Boys), most of whom played in the CL last week.  At least they didn't have ET to play too.

[Consigliere]

12 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

That was a pretty strong Utd line-up.  Lots of rotation from the weekend but still all experienced senior players (Dalot less experienced than most, but already hailed as a new star after Young Boys), most of whom played in the CL last week.  At least they didn't have ET to play too.

The rotation policy by Mourinho was poor though. It's pretty clear that Lukaku, like Kane, is feeling the effects of a long season + WC. Mourinho should have taken the opportunity to rest him and play Martial and Sanchez up front. He's going to run Lukaku into the ground just like he did with Matic last season. Pereira should have started as well but he is one of those players who Mourinho banishes after one poor performance. 

 

Quote

(Dalot less experienced than most, but already hailed as a new star after Young Boys)

In his limited game time, he's looked much better in attack than Valencia - the difference is night and day really. His crossing is on another level to Valencia's as well although Valencia is still more solid defensively. 

[Iskaral Pust]

23 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

The rotation policy by Mourinho was poor though. It's pretty clear that Lukaku, like Kane, is feeling the effects of a long season + WC. Mourinho should have taken the opportunity to rest him and play Martial and Sanchez up front. He's going to run Lukaku into the ground just like he did with Matic last season. Pereira should have started as well but he is one of those players who Mourinho banishes after one poor performance. 

 

In his limited game time, he's looked much better in attack than Valencia - the difference is night and day really. His crossing is on another level to Valencia's as well although Valencia is still more solid defensively. 

I agree on rotation.  Lukaku is his security blanket.  It would have been a smarter move to play a lot of kids and remove any potential criticism for a loss, while changing the tone and focus for the fan base.  Putting out a relatively strong team that lost, and was arguably outplayed for long periods, was the worst outcome. 

It’s surprising that Valencia, a converted winger, has seen his attacking contribution decline so badly.  Dalot has had the benefit of starting twice against weaker opposition, but I would expect the fans would much prefer him to get start next PL game.  Mourinho is conservative with FBs.  Shaw has already been arguably the most consistent player so far this season, and yet Young is still getting appearances because the manager trusts him more. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

3 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

It’s surprising that Valencia, a converted winger, has seen his attacking contribution decline so badly.

I'd reverse the argument though, I find it more surprising, that he has developed into such a solid fullback. That his attacking output as a fullback would decline with age, I find less surprising, or do you think he would be chasing down the flank like he was in his twenties? So ofc he prioritizes his positioning and reduces his forward contribution.

[Iskaral Pust]

9 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I'd reverse the argument though, I find it more surprising, that he has developed into such a solid fullback. That his attacking output as a fullback would decline with age, I find less surprising, or do you think he would be chasing down the flank like he was in his twenties? So ofc he prioritizes his positioning and reduces his forward contribution.

I don’t watch him much but the criticism I’ve heard from Utd fans (and he gets mentioned a lot) is that his crossing is poor.  He’s in an advanced position often enough but he either takes too many touches, crosses too early from too deep, turns back inside for a safe pass or just fails to hit a teammate with his cross.  I haven’t heard that he struggles to get forward, just that he lacks initiative and quality when he does (like Clyne) — and that’s what sounds surprising for a converted winger.  But that’s all secondhand.  

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I don’t watch him much but the criticism I’ve heard from Utd fans (and he gets mentioned a lot) is that his crossing is poor.  He’s in an advanced position often enough but he either takes too many touches, crosses too early from too deep, turns back inside for a safe pass or just fails to hit a teammate with his cross.  I haven’t heard that he struggles to get forward, just that he lacks initiative and quality when he does (like Clyne) — and that’s what sounds surprising for a converted winger.  But that’s all secondhand.  

That's it.

Valencia still has the stamina to go up and down the flank and while he's no spring chicken and not as quick as he once was, he still has decent pace. The problem is that he very, very rarely drives into the space ahead of him, take on the opposing fullback or look to make runs in behind. When he receives the ball with space ahead of him, 9 out of 10 times he shuffles his feet a bit and plays a backwards pass into midfield again. His crossing is mostly hit and hope - his idea of a cross involves kicking the ball as hard as he can and if it does get to a teammate, it's more by accident than him playing a measured ball.

[polishgenius]

On the Pogba thing, even though realistically it's a worry about player power and all that stuff, I'm sympathetic to Pogba in this. It's been clear for a while that Mourinho resents the strength of his personality in the squad and has been trying to tear him down (it's a repeated trick of his to pick on the biggest name in the dressing room to make others toe the line) and Pogba hasn't led a player revolt or downed tools himself. So long as Mourinho's not fired, there's really not a lot he can do except make it obvious in the media that the dressing room is unhappy.

3 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

and that’s what sounds surprising for a converted winger.  

It actually goes back before that, his crossing turning shit is the reason he was moved further back. It's actually quite strange. He was always fine when he first arrived, then he had an absolutely blistering half-season in which everything he touched turned to gold, think he got something stupid like 13 assists in 15 games. Then he got injured, lost his place to Nani and when he got it back his crossing was gone.

[Mark Antony]

Fabinho hype 

[Iskaral Pust]

Moreno, to give him credit, was in his best ever Liverpool form last season until he got injured.  But he hasn’t recaptured it tonight.  

It sounds like Chelsea B is more cohesive than Liverpool B so far.  But still good to get some playing time while the stakes are low. 

[ljkeane]

I’m not too fussed about the result but this is arguably Liverpool’s strongest midfield, on paper at least, it’d be nice if we weren’t getting outplayed there. 

On the plus side we’ve grown into the game and Shaqiri looks good again.

ETA: Jesus Christ Sturridge.

[Mark Antony]

I mean it’s an unbelievable bit of skill but I don’t think that goal happens with Robbo in. 

[ljkeane]

Just now, Soylent Brown said:

Oh well, I guess losing is better than the game going to extra time.

No extra time in the league cup anymore.

Anyway, fair play, that was an alright goal.

[Consigliere]

Sevilla might be poor defensively but boy can they play some beautiful attacking football. They've put on an attacking masterclass in the 1st half against Real Madrid. 3-0 up and it's not an exaggeration to say that they could easily be 5-0 up. Ben Yedder has finally been promoted to the starting lineup in the last few games and has quickly proven that he is the best striker at the club. Banega has been outstanding as well tonight.

[Iskaral Pust]

Hopefully Hazard just used up his match-winning slalom goal potential for this week. 

Not surprising that the team was disjointed tonight.  If we don’t win the LC then better to go out now. 

[Mexal]

End of an era. Ramsey moving on in January or the summer. Wish it was Ozil. 

[Raja]

Kinda okay with Ramsey moving on, even though I'm probably his biggest fan on the board. Still not *entirely* sure he will go, but it looks like he will. 

[Mexal]

4 minutes ago, Raja said:

Kinda okay with Ramsey moving on, even though I'm probably his biggest fan on the board. Still not *entirely* sure he will go, but it looks like he will. 

I'm fine with it. I don't think he fits this team's style at the moment. I think this best position is CM and he hasn't played it once since Emery has arrived so probably best if he moves on. I hate that we'll get nothing for it though.