Consigliere Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Another horror show from Germany. Well beaten by the Netherlands for the first time in 16 years. Boateng has aged like milk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I’m not sure about well beaten - two late goals when Germany were desperate after Sane should have scored and Ginter should have had a penalty added a rather missleading gloss. Had either gone their way, a draw would have been a fair result. In the long term it is probably for the best for Germany. If the World Cup was not enough to shake Löw out of his old boys club mentality then this is the time to go before his legacy is truly tarnished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 Gini took his goal well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Philokles said: I’m not sure about well beaten - two late goals when Germany were desperate after Sane should have scored and Ginter should have had a penalty added a rather missleading gloss. Had either gone their way, a draw would have been a fair result. In the long term it is probably for the best for Germany. If the World Cup was not enough to shake Löw out of his old boys club mentality then this is the time to go before his legacy is truly tarnished. Well, well beaten in the sense that this performance was no different than what Germany have been putting in since the WC. If the near misses were an occasional thing then they could be called unlucky but this has been the story for a while now - lots of possession but little to nothing to show for it combined with a shaky defence that is leaking goals. Löw has done a good job overall but it might be time for him to go unless he is able to get out of the trap that he's fallen into of being too loyal to certain players who are now at the stage where they need to be phased out. The talent is there for him to do so but thus far he's been unwilling to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Consigliere said: Löw has done a good job overall but it might be time for him to go unless he is able to get out of the trap that he's fallen into of being too loyal to certain players who are now at the stage where they need to be phased out. The talent is there for him to do so but thus far he's been unwilling to. It's interesting that Gareth Southgate, who was considered by many including myself to be a poor choice for England (and management in general) in part because he doesn't seem to be a strong personality, has managed to start this process for England by getting players to retire voluntarily as well as just dropping Rooney, whereas the you would have thought much more commanding Löw seems to have gotten stuck on the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Crows Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 1 hour ago, polishgenius said: It's interesting that Gareth Southgate, who was considered by many including myself to be a poor choice for England (and management in general) in part because he doesn't seem to be a strong personality, has managed to start this process for England by getting players to retire voluntarily as well as just dropping Rooney, whereas the you would have thought much more commanding Löw seems to have gotten stuck on the point. The most interesting thing about Gareth Southgate is that during the World Cup, waistcoat sales increased by something like 40% in the UK thanks to him. Hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeor Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/14/2018 at 10:28 AM, polishgenius said: It's interesting that Gareth Southgate, who was considered by many including myself to be a poor choice for England (and management in general) in part because he doesn't seem to be a strong personality, has managed to start this process for England by getting players to retire voluntarily as well as just dropping Rooney, whereas the you would have thought much more commanding Löw seems to have gotten stuck on the point. Paradoxically I think the underwhelming choice of Southgate might have made some players retire because they didn't think good things would happen, when it's been the opposite. To be fair to Low, phasing in a new team is pretty hard to do when you were responsible for the old team. These days with their short tenures, most managers can come in and shake up the place the way they want without having to worry about old loyalties. Mourinho has never had to transition a team, for example. Ferguson's longevity in building different title-winning teams was the exception that proved the rule. Even Arsene Wenger really only had two different teams that were a success, and the last 10 years he just couldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Jeor said: Paradoxically I think the underwhelming choice of Southgate might have made some players retire because they didn't think good things would happen, when it's been the opposite. To be fair to Low, phasing in a new team is pretty hard to do when you were responsible for the old team. These days with their short tenures, most managers can come in and shake up the place the way they want without having to worry about old loyalties. Mourinho has never had to transition a team, for example. Ferguson's longevity in building different title-winning teams was the exception that proved the rule. Even Arsene Wenger really only had two different teams that were a success, and the last 10 years he just couldn't do it. This is the same trap that Del Bosque fell into with Spain and, yes, it's not easy to get out of it. Both those managers were also fortunate that the core of their national teams came from one club (Barca and Bayern) which also meant that tactically they could just copy what those clubs were doing. I don't think Löw needs to make wholesale changes. For starters he needs to drop Müller and Boateng. Kimmich should not be in midfield especially considering that the likes of Weigl, Can and Rudy can all play the holding midfield role. The need for him at RB is greater. I'd also drop Jonas Hector in favour of a more attacking LB like Phillip Max. While Neuer is Neuer, I don't think that he has reached his usual level post injury. Ter Stegen deserves a chance. I'd go with a lineup looking something like this and place an emphasis on wing play to make the best use of the wide attackers and attacking fullbacks which in turn should create space through the middle for Kroos to pull the strings: Ter Stegen/Neuer Kimmich Süle Hummels Max Gundogan Weigl/Rudy/Can Kroos Brandt Werner Sane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/14/2018 at 1:28 AM, polishgenius said: It's interesting that Gareth Southgate, who was considered by many including myself to be a poor choice for England (and management in general) in part because he doesn't seem to be a strong personality, has managed to start this process for England by getting players to retire voluntarily as well as just dropping Rooney, whereas the you would have thought much more commanding Löw seems to have gotten stuck on the point. That is a bit of a misconception of Löw, I think. Löw is not really confrontational, it's not in his nature. In addition, he is from Swabia or Baden, the dialect/accent down there, it's not very suited for outrage. Just trust me on that. Anyway, going back to him not being that ruthless. He is really not the manager to axe players. Need examples? He kept selecting Podolski for quite some time after he started to decline, he selected an aging and well past it Metzelder, because of his long servitutde on the National Team, in 2014 he also picked Schweinsteiger and Khedira, who were both struggling with their fitness. Löw is pretty loyal towards his players, so I can only imagine how he really feels about Özil not even wanting to talk to him. The only player Löw has (fortunately) really ever axed was Ballack. And their much more credit is due to Kevin Prince Boateng for injuring Ballack before the World Cup in 2010. And since the team performed pretty well in that tournament, and Ballack was not that popular among the next generation of players around Lahm, so Löw did not call him up again. Of course Ballack being the jackass he is, effectively slammed the door himself by going on about some gay conspiracy in the team happening to keep him, with Löw and some players in the center of it all. 3 hours ago, Consigliere said: This is the same trap that Del Bosque fell into with Spain and, yes, it's not easy to get out of it. Both those managers were also fortunate that the core of their national teams came from one club (Barca and Bayern) which also meant that tactically they could just copy what those clubs were doing. Well, the core of the players that won the Cup in 2014 was not that old, that you could just off them. Also, a funny (maybe not) conincidence, who was in charge of Barca and Bayern at that time? Guardiola. I really think, you have to give him some credit for the Spanish and German teams. 3 hours ago, Consigliere said: I don't think Löw needs to make wholesale changes. For starters he needs to drop Müller and Boateng. Kimmich should not be in midfield especially considering that the likes of Weigl, Can and Rudy can all play the holding midfield role. The need for him at RB is greater. I'd also drop Jonas Hector in favour of a more attacking LB like Phillip Max. While Neuer is Neuer, I don't think that he has reached his usual level post injury. Ter Stegen deserves a chance. I'd go with a lineup looking something like this and place an emphasis on wing play to make the best use of the wide attackers and attacking fullbacks which in turn should create space through the middle for Kroos to pull the strings: Ter Stegen/Neuer Kimmich Süle Hummels Max Gundogan Weigl/Rudy/Can Kroos Brandt Werner Sane Kimmich is a holding midfielder. That is natural position. He is really like Lahm in quite a few ways. Both are/were very versatile and smart players. Hector himself is also more of a holding midfielder who got retrained to play LB. And yes, Max will be on the team rather sooner than later. He really took a huge step last 1 1/2 seasons. Last season he was not candidate for Löw because of his defensive positioning. Thus far it looks like he has worked on that aspect of his game and improved there, too. As for the RB, that is atm one of the two positions where quality appears to be a bit short in the German player pool (the other being CF). I suppose either Kehrer, Rüdiger or Can will fill that void at least as a stop gap solution, and Löw will keep Kimmich in the center. Or he will switch to a back 3. My guess sooner or later the team will look like this. Neuer/ter Stegen Süle Hummels Rüdiger/Tah/Kehrer Brandt/Kimmich/Kehrer Kimmich/Can/Rudy Max/Sane/Draxler/Brandt/Plattenhardt Gündogan/Weigl Kroos Werner Volland/Petersen/Brandt/Uth/Draxler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Football’s definitely coming home this time. We’re nailed on to win the, er, UEFA Nations League now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 That was a good display of counter-attacking football by England although they were helped by some shambolic defending. 3 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Kimmich is a holding midfielder. That is natural position. He is really like Lahm in quite a few ways. Both are/were very versatile and smart players. As for the RB, that is atm one of the two positions where quality appears to be a bit short in the German player pool (the other being CF). I suppose either Kehrer, Rüdiger or Can will fill that void at least as a stop gap solution, and Löw will keep Kimmich in the center. Or he will switch to a back 3. Sure, I know Kimmich has played plenty of games in midfield and he is good there, that's why I also mentioned that the need for him at RB is greater. Quality attacking fullbacks/wingbacks make a big difference and I don't think that Kehrer, Rudiger or Can fit that description. I think Kimmich at RB/RWB would bring a better balance. Rudy/Can are capable of filling the holding midfield role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 England beat Spain despite shameless display of attention-hogging from greedy Raheem Sterling. Don't mind me, I'm just practising my application for the Daily Mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 That should have been a penalty for Spain. Pickford clearly impedes Rodrigo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Pickford going for the Cruyff turn and, shockingly, it doesn’t come off. Should have been a penalty too. England look nervous despite Spain not actually putting together a great deal in attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 In other news, Salah got injured for Egypt (muscle strain), and now Mane has broken his thumb(!) in training for Senegal. And VVD hurt his ribs again for Netherlands. I guess we're just lucky Lallana didn't get injured for England again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Umm...I never gave this any credence when the initial rumours came about (Saudi crown prince interested in buying United) since it was being reported by shit rags like the Daily Mail but I see that Liz Sly (Washington Post Beirut bureau chief) has also reported that there is genuine interest in them buying part or all of United. James Ducker also reporting that United are silent on the matter contrary to an earlier report by The Mirror saying that United have denied the reports. As much as the Glazer's are shitty owners, I'd rather them remain as owners than the club becoming a play-thing propaganda tool for a bunch of shit stains who are among the most evil people on the planet. I hope England has some laws in place that would prevent them from a taking over the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, Consigliere said: I hope England has some laws in place that would prevent them from a taking over the club. In theory there are 'right and proper person' rules but in practice they're a load of shit. Past that, since City are owned by Bahrain I can't see any reason why the Saudis couldn't buy us. That would suck. This is a tiny part of the reason but I really can't wait till we as a world wean ourselves off oil so that all those shitty little dictatorships lose all influence and die on the vine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 12 hours ago, polishgenius said: Past that, since City are owned by Bahrain I can't see any reason why the Saudis couldn't buy us. Isn't City owned by UAE (if we're assigning club ownership to countries instead of people)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Really quite pleased with the way we beat Germany 3-0. Don't think anyone saw that coming. Of course, it could have gone differently. Germany had many chances in the first and second half but clearly do not have a striker who is able to convert big chances. During the game I said multiple times, let them shoot, they'll not score, and that continued to be obvious. Mueller is a shadow of what he once was, and the other guys like Uth and Werner squandered all their chances. However the other side of the coin is that Holland has been playing better of late. Should have qualified for the WC as we were quite a bit better than Sweden in the group but the team let itself down. Depay is playing great football again, centre backs with De Ligt ( young Ajax captain rumoured to go to Barca next year) and with Van Dijk ( one of the best centre backs in Europe) looking good. Frenkie de Jong in midfield is a sensational talent who despite his age has suddenly become a firm starter in Ajax and the national side. Also like PSV's Steven Bergwijn as a pacy forward. The team is looking much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 14 hours ago, polishgenius said: In theory there are 'right and proper person' rules but in practice they're a load of shit. Are you suggesting the rules haven't saved the Huns from getting bought by a fraud (Whitey), or that Abramovich is not a right and proper person? :') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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