Football: Remain in Europe

[Iskaral Pust]

58 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Yeah, but not actually hindsight. Check the last post on page 18 of this thread. That was posted well before kick off, and I said Liverpool - Red Star is gonna be too one sided. I also had Liverpool to score six or more (which they would have done easily last season). Red Star is by all accounts just the whipping boy of that group. Anyway, Liverpool got the win with a comfortable margin, now it's onto more competitive matches for them.

I know you said it, but no Liverpool fans did.  You fall into the second category I mentioned: opponent fans setting a high bar for us to fall short.  Liverpool fans know the forwards have been struggling and were just hoping to see them click and get on the scoresheet.  So that was a success for us, especially after only 1-0 against Huddersfield.

[polishgenius]

23 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

You fall into the second category I mentioned: opponent fans setting a high bar for us to fall short.

Or possibly of someone who'd seen enough of Red Star to know that even an off-kilter Liverpool would absolutely thump them?

[Iskaral Pust]

36 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Or possibly of someone who'd seen enough of Red Star to know that even an off-kilter Liverpool would absolutely thump them?

That’s hard to predict, although I know Baxus said similar when Red Star first qualified (before Liverpool lost their fluency). 

Red Star surprised everyone as they drew with Napoli with successfully negative tactics, but then they got demolished by PSG (and half those goals were set pieces, which are not a strength for Liverpool).  And otherwise they haven’t been in the CL in a long time.  

So Liverpool were facing an unknown quantity who would have every incentive to defend deep, foul a lot and waste a lot of time.  That’s exactly the kind of banana skin that might confound a misfiring attack who only managed 1-0 against Huddersfield at the weekend (3 points from 9 games and -14 GD already), and only scored three in their last five games. 

I expected to win but 4-0, and could easily have been six or seven, with five outfielders rotated and good performances from Fabinho and Shaqiri was worthy of my “good day at the office” assessment, rather than just achieving the bare minimum expected. 

[Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

With Valencia sitting 14th in LaLiga, Mourinho is right that he doesn’t even have to try to play against a heavily out-spent Juventus team.

Just watch us go to the Mestalla and lose.

 

2 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Provided the fans won’t be upset by the terrible football, lack of ambition or pride, or hollow excuses about spending. 

I think it should be fairly obvious by now that Mourinho couldn't care less about the club or fans. He only cares about protecting himself by deflecting blame onto the players and Woodward.

[Mexal]

Arsenal have won 11 in a row. Next up, Crystal Palace.

[Iskaral Pust]

1 hour ago, Mexal said:

Arsenal have won 11 in a row. Next up, Crystal Palace.

Catching up on City's incredible run last year.

But apparently anything Welbeck can do, Loftus-Cheek can do three times better.

[Mexal]

3 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Catching up on City's incredible run last year.

But apparently anything Welbeck can do, Loftus-Cheek can do three times better.

I think Arsenal is 3 off their own record as well. Their next four games are Palace away and Blackpool, Liverpool and Sporting at home. I don't think they match the record or beat it but it's been fun winning again.

[baxus]

14 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

That’s hard to predict, although I know Baxus said similar when Red Star first qualified (before Liverpool lost their fluency). 

Red Star surprised everyone as they drew with Napoli with successfully negative tactics, but then they got demolished by PSG (and half those goals were set pieces, which are not a strength for Liverpool).  And otherwise they haven’t been in the CL in a long time.  

So Liverpool were facing an unknown quantity who would have every incentive to defend deep, foul a lot and waste a lot of time.  That’s exactly the kind of banana skin that might confound a misfiring attack who only managed 1-0 against Huddersfield at the weekend (3 points from 9 games and -14 GD already), and only scored three in their last five games. 

I expected to win but 4-0, and could easily have been six or seven, with five outfielders rotated and good performances from Fabinho and Shaqiri was worthy of my “good day at the office” assessment, rather than just achieving the bare minimum expected. 

If any one of you ever comes to Belgrade, I'll take you to watch either Crvena Zvezda or Partizan match so you can see the level of the competition they have and you'll realize actually how much weaker Crvena Zvezda is compared to the rest of the group. Be warned though, that match might put you off football for a while. On the other hand, it might make you appreciate good football more.

I've seen only the highlights from their match with Napoli and I'd say that Napoli could've easily won 5-0 and no one would be able to say that it wasn't deserved. Crvena Zvezda was lucky and Napoli was very unlucky in that match. It was a one off and I'm pretty sure that Crvena Zvezda will not manage another clean sheet in this year's group stages.

[Jordan La Cabra]

14 hours ago, Consigliere said:

I think it should be fairly obvious by now that Mourinho couldn't care less about the club or fans. 

He seems to care a lot about the Chelsea fans, still.

Three wins out of three for Chelsea in the Europa League. Hopefully that gives Sarri a bit more leeway to rotate in the final three group games.

It was nice to see an academy product score a hat-trick, no matter what level the opposition were. I thought Loftus-Cheek's overall performance was very good, even without the goals. He ran a lot, made tackles, looked interested and when he picked the ball up from deep positions and made driving runs, he was very difficult to stop. Obviously, he wouldn't be afforded as much time and space in the Premier League, but he possesses the strength, speed, balance and dribbling ability that you'd imagine he should be able to hold his own, if given a chance.

At the moment, though, it seems like there are three midfielders fighting for one spot. Jorginho is first pick in the middle of the three man midfield, with Kante the first choice beside him, as he is the only true defensive midfielder we have. On the other side of Jorginho, Kovacic, Barkley and Loftus-Cheek are up against each other for the final starting berth.

Kovacic has started the season quite well; his main talent seems to be in his ability to carry the ball forwards and link up with the forwards, which he probably does the best out of the three. He seems to be a bit more switched on defensively, tracking back more than the others, which probably gives him the edge at the moment. In and around the box, he doesn't seem to be a natural goal scorer, and given the fact our strikers aren't providing us with many goals, we need players chipping in from other areas. Barkley and Loftus-Cheek need to keep continuing to improve the defensive side of their games if they want to play more. 

Watching the post match discussion between Owen Hargreaves and Glenn Hoddle, there were suggestions that if Loftus-Cheek didn't get more game time that he'd have to leave the club. If he were to leave, I'd rather it be on a loan deal rather than a permanent one, but I'd rather he didn't leave at all. Kovacic is only on loan at Chelsea. In today's market, he is probably worth upwards of £60m. When he goes back to Real Madrid, we will lose a £60m+ player, which means we'd have to go into the market again, either to replace him or to try and sign him. If Loftus-Cheek can improve defensively and tactically, by learning Sarri's way of playing, there would be no need for Chelsea to splash out to replace or buy Kovacic. Even if it means Loftus-Cheek not playing as much as he'd want to, I still think it would be a good idea for him to stick around at Chelsea for the whole season, so that he can take in as much information from Sarri as possible in order to become the ready made replacement for Kovacic when he goes back to Real Madrid.

It would be a bit like the Phil Foden situation at Man City. Obviously, Foden is a lot younger and isn't at the stage in his career that he should be a regular, as is the case with Loftus Cheek. But Foden could go out on loan to any team in the Championship and probably play 30-40 games this season, but he is staying at Man City, where he may not play as much, but by training everyday with the Man City players and being coached by Guardiola, he will be better set to slot into Man City's team when he is completely ready. That sounds like a better alternative to going out on loan and playing in completely different systems and styles than the ones in which Guardiola demands. 

 

 

 

[ljkeane]

26 minutes ago, Jordan La Cabra said:

It would be a bit like the Phil Foden situation at Man City. Obviously, Foden is a lot younger and isn't at the stage in his career that he should be a regular, as is the case with Loftus Cheek. But Foden could go out on loan to any team in the Championship and probably play 30-40 games this season, but he is staying at Man City, where he may not play as much, but by training everyday with the Man City players and being coached by Guardiola, he will be better set to slot into Man City's team when he is completely ready. That sounds like a better alternative to going out on loan and playing in completely different systems and styles than the ones in which Guardiola demands.

I don't know. Leaving aside the age thing I think the difference is Foden is unquestionably the kind of player who fits into Guardiola's style of play. He may not ultimately be good enough to break into the City side, there's always going to be a lot of competition, but he's definitely going to benefit a lot from being coached by Guardiola.

I'm not sure Loftus-Cheek is definitely a Sarri style player. I'm sure it doesn't hurt being coached by Sarri but is he ever going to be the kind of player Chelsea want to fit into the high volume passing style Sarri plays?

[Jordan La Cabra]

22 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

I don't know. Leaving aside the age thing I think the difference is Foden is unquestionably the kind of player who fits into Guardiola's style of play. He may not ultimately be good enough to break into the City side, there's always going to be a lot of competition, but he's definitely going to benefit a lot from being coached by Guardiola.

I'm not sure Loftus-Cheek is definitely a Sarri style player. I'm sure it doesn't hurt being coached by Sarri but is he ever going to be the kind of player Chelsea want to fit into the high volume passing style Sarri plays?

Yeah, that's a fair point. The only way for Sarri to see that is to give him more of a chance. If by the end of the season he hasn't fitted into Sarri's style, then it may well be best to sell him, but I think he should be given the entire season to work with Sarri.

I think that this is a good season for Loftus-Cheek to try emerge at Chelsea. Given that we are in the Europa League, Chelsea may play around 60 games this season, which could give Loftus-Cheek a fair few opportunities to play, even if it isn't predominately in the Premier League. Usually, if we are in the Champions League, the only chance for rotation is in the cups, which wouldn't amount to many games. With Europa League, there can almost be a squad for the Premier League and a squad for Europe and the cups.

BT Sports showed the stats comparing the amount of games Loftus-Cheek had played compared to Dele Alli. Despite being the same age, Alli has played 240 career club matches compared to Loftus-Cheek's 61. You have to take into account that Alli broke through at a lower league club and Loftus-Cheek has been trying to break through at a club competing for Premier League titles, but it is quite a difference in games when you see that Loftus-Cheek is older than Alli by a few months.

Loftus-Cheek might not want to wait around much longer for game time at Chelsea, but I would like to see him succeed at the club, especially when his talent is clear to see.

[Philokles]

I’d say a bigger issue than Loftus-Cheek, who will likely never amount to more than a decent player for Chelsea, is that it took until 3-0 at home to BATE for Hudson-Odoi to get a look in. Though he is probably not on quite the same level as Sancho, he must be looking at the opportunites that Jadon and Reiss Nelson have been getting with envy. Even Foden in England seems to be involved a lot more - if only for five minute cameos at the end of won games.

[Jordan La Cabra]

40 minutes ago, Philokles said:

I’d say a bigger issue than Loftus-Cheek, who will likely never amount to more than a decent player for Chelsea, is that it took until 3-0 at home to BATE for Hudson-Odoi to get a look in. Though he is probably not on quite the same level as Sancho, he must be looking at the opportunites that Jadon and Reiss Nelson have been getting with envy. Even Foden in England seems to be involved a lot more - if only for five minute cameos at the end of won games.

Hudson-Odoi has looked very impressive any time I have seen him play for Chelsea. From what I saw / read of pre-season, he seemed to be the star player, so I thought he would have been afforded a few more opportunities this season than he has been, especially after he started in the Community Shield. The problem is that he is up against Hazard, Willian, Pedro and Moses. Even Moses, who has been a regular the past two seasons, has barely had any game time.

Sarri has set up his three starting XIs in the Europa League to be quite strong. Now that we have won those three games, he may rotate a bit more in the final three, which may give Hudson-Odoi his chance. 

The same applies for Ampadu, though he is injured. Ampadu and Hudson-Odoi are the first two young players to be given game time at Chelsea that I really think took their opportunities to showcase their talents, even if they have only been cameos. 

And, unlike Man City, Chelsea haven't really had many comfortable wins to bring young players on during the latter stages.

[Consigliere]

Allan finally gets a call up to the Brazil squad. 

[Raja]

For the people following MLS - The totally football show has an MLS podcast that just launched, I don't watch MLS, but for those who do, might be worth a go? 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

19 hours ago, baxus said:

If any one of you ever comes to Belgrade, I'll take you to watch either Crvena Zvezda or Partizan match so you can see the level of the competition they have and you'll realize actually how much weaker Crvena Zvezda is compared to the rest of the group. Be warned though, that match might put you off football for a while. On the other hand, it might make you appreciate good football more. 

You should've at least made that Red Star vs. Partizan. To also get some perspective on the perceived hooligan problem in the major European league. That'd be like an adventure holiday with live MMA training and stuff.

 

[BigFatCoward]

Glenn Hoddle has been rushed into hospital apparently and is in a pretty bad way. Fucking magnificent footballer, but a bit of a loony.

Hoping for a draw at Southampton seems defeatist, but realistic. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Just now, BigFatCoward said:

Glenn Hoddle has been rushed into hospital apparently and is in a pretty bad way. Fucking magnificent footballer, but a bit of a loony.

Hoping for a draw at Southampton seems defeatist, but realistic. 

A bit of a loony, that's awfully kind isn't it?

Wasn't Hoddle the former England manager who once infamously said, that people with disabilities were just getting punished by god for sins in a former life?

[AncalagonTheBlack]

11 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

Dominant but meh from Liverpool so far, all of the possession but creating very little of worth.

Lallana hasn't been especially effective so hopefully Shaqiri comes on for him sooner rather than later, and I'd like to see Sturridge on quite early too: his singlemindedness is very useful for these games where we should be looking to pad our goal difference.

Oh, and I've actually been happy with how Wijnaldum has been playing the past couple of games (!). I don't know if it's having Fabinho beside him, or the fancy goal he scored during the international break, but he's been much more positive in possession.

Yeah,Shaq on for Lallana.I've never liked Lallana.Hopefully we sell him next summer.

I think Fab is making Gini look good.

[lmanion]

Of course that happens when we have fucking moreno playing lb