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Shae was a Sandsnake?

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Heard the theory on a podcast that Shae might have been one of the Sand Snakes. The only 'evidence' was her skin color. I am not convinced. Can anyone present any other evidence? What are your thoughts?

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3 hours ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Heard the theory on a podcast that Shae might have been one of the Sand Snakes. The only 'evidence' was her skin color. I am not convinced. Can anyone present any other evidence? What are your thoughts?

About that theory i dont know much but elleras is discribed as clothed in green with a golden feather guill, what is the sigil of house jordayne a house in Dorne. The sigil have even dark in it, but not total black, what is his skin color I think a easy name puzzle joke is not george his style.

Edited by Seaserpent

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3 hours ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Heard the theory on a podcast that Shae might have been one of the Sand Snakes. The only 'evidence' was her skin color. I am not convinced. Can anyone present any other evidence? What are your thoughts?

All of the Sand Snakes are known to everyone and have been acknowledged by Oberyn, so I would first wonder why he refused to do the same for Shae. Also, I may be wrong, but I don't think we ever see a mention of Shae's skin color -- all I've seen is that she has dark hair and dark eyes.

But since we don't get much of Shae's backstory, she could very well be Dornish, although it's a stretch to put her in the ruling family. Personally, I think she was Littlefinger's creature, which makes it very likely that, initially at least, so was Bronn.

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1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

All of the Sand Snakes are known to everyone and have been acknowledged by Oberyn, so I would first wonder why he refused to do the same for Shae. Also, I may be wrong, but I don't think we ever see a mention of Shae's skin color -- all I've seen is that she has dark hair and dark eyes.

But since we don't get much of Shae's backstory, she could very well be Dornish, although it's a stretch to put her in the ruling family. Personally, I think she was Littlefinger's creature, which makes it very likely that, initially at least, so was Bronn.

"M'lord." Shae smiled at the sight of him. He liked that smile, the quick unthinking way it came to her pretty face. The girl wore her purple silk, belted with a cloth-of-silver sash. The colors favored her dark hair and the smooth cream of her skin.

A quick search yielded that quote. Only quote I could find that mentions her skin. Guess that Sand Snake theory is kaput.

Thanks folks!

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2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

All of the Sand Snakes are known to everyone and have been acknowledged by Oberyn, so I would first wonder why he refused to do the same for Shae. Also, I may be wrong, but I don't think we ever see a mention of Shae's skin color -- all I've seen is that she has dark hair and dark eyes.

But since we don't get much of Shae's backstory, she could very well be Dornish, although it's a stretch to put her in the ruling family. Personally, I think she was Littlefinger's creature, which makes it very likely that, initially at least, so was Bronn.

I am talking about alleras who is student at the citadell, people think that speld backwards its sarella who is the daughter of oberyn who we didnt see yet. I think she is a jordayne. Shae her real name is serella i think and she is an undecover spy for doran. So 1 sandsnake is not known and we dont know her whereabouts and tgat is sarella.

Edited by Seaserpent

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19 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

I am talking about alleras who is student at the citadell, people think that speld backwards its sarella who is the daughter of oberyn who we didnt see yet. I think she is a jordayne. Shae her real name is serella i think and she is an undecover spy for doran. So 1 sandsnake is not known and we dont know her whereabouts and tgat is sarella.

I think we can be certain that Alleras is Sarella. He (she) has the widow's peak, the light brown skin of a sandy Dornishman and dark hair in tight curls. Sarella's mother was a Summer Islander, which would account for the curls. As @Legitimate_Bastard noted above, Shae has cream-colored skin.

I can't find any mention of Alleras wearing a golden feather quill, but if he was a secret Jordayne the last thing he would want to do is wear his house's sigil. The appendix in Feast for Crows says Sarella's mother was the captain of the Feathered Kiss, which might explain the quill.

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20 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

I am talking about alleras who is student at the citadell, people think that speld backwards its sarella who is the daughter of oberyn who we didnt see yet. I think she is a jordayne. Shae her real name is serella i think and she is an undecover spy for doran. So 1 sandsnake is not known and we dont know her whereabouts and tgat is sarella.

 

16 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

I think we can be certain that Alleras is Sarella. He (she) has the widow's peak, the light brown skin of a sandy Dornishman and dark hair in tight curls. Sarella's mother was a Summer Islander, which would account for the curls. As @Legitimate_Bastard noted above, Shae has cream-colored skin.

I can't find any mention of Alleras wearing a golden feather quill, but if he was a secret Jordayne the last thing he would want to do is wear his house's sigil. The appendix in Feast for Crows says Sarella's mother was the captain of the Feathered Kiss, which might explain the quill.

I agree - at least I follow the theory that Sarella is Alleras. 

 

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3 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

I think we can be certain that Alleras is Sarella. He (she) has the widow's peak, the light brown skin of a sandy Dornishman and dark hair in tight curls. Sarella's mother was a Summer Islander, which would account for the curls. As @Legitimate_Bastard noted above, Shae has cream-colored skin.

I can't find any mention of Alleras wearing a golden feather quill, but if he was a secret Jordayne the last thing he would want to do is wear his house's sigil. The appendix in Feast for Crows says Sarella's mother was the captain of the Feathered Kiss, which might explain the quill.

I think also more that it is alleras too. I didnt mean  she has it in her pocket, but he has a golden longbow with him and she and her friends also drink at "the quill at tankard". In Combiantion with your feathered kiss and the house colors its evidence that she could be a jordayne. I dont say that i believe it but its a theory that makes her riddle. Alleras sounds way to easy for george to backspell a name, but i think it could be.  

he is discribed as: He has curly black hair, a widow's peak, and big black eyes. Alleras has skin the color of teak! (dark till very dark)

One more extra the jordaynes are plotting with Doran to slow down balon swann, so even if he is Alerras its a crony from Doran and a very loyal one. 

Edited by Seaserpent

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1 hour ago, Seaserpent said:

I think also more that it is alleras too. I didnt mean  she has it in her pocket, but he has a golden longbow with him and she and her friends also drink at "the quill at tankard". In Combiantion with your feathered kiss and the house colors its evidence that she could be a jordayne. I dont say that i believe it but its a theory that makes her riddle. Alleras sounds way to easy for george to backspell a name, but i think it could be.  

he is discribed as: He has curly black hair, a widow's peak, and big black eyes. Alleras has skin the color of teak! (dark till very dark)

One more extra the jordaynes are plotting with Doran to slow down balon swann, so even if he is Alerras its a crony from Doran and a very loyal one. 

They are all drinking at the Quill and Tankard, but that doesn't mean they are all secret Jordaynes, no?

The Feathered Kiss is the name of Sarella's mother's ship. Her mother, like Alleras', is a Summer Islander, who are known for the strength of their goldenheart longbows. I don't think the color of this wood is ever described, but I would suspect that it is yellowish. Alleras' arrows are also golden wood, but the feathers are scarlet, a deep purple, not yellow. The Feathered Kiss, therefore, is a reference to being shot by an arrow, which is what would happen if you were a pirate and tried to board it.

Teak wood is not that dark. It is actually a medium-brown.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/TEAK-WOOD-GHANA-TEAK_111135092.html

When Sam meets Alleras, he describes him with "skin the color of light brown ale," very much like a salty Dornishman, which I admit would include House Jordayne.

As for the name spelled backward, remember that this is not Martin trying to disguise the identity of a character, but the character trying to disguise her identity in Oldtown. So it is perfectly plausible that she would choose to spell it backward.

And of course the Jordaynes are working with the Martells to exact revenge on the Lannisters, but that is no reason to think that they have a plant in Oldtown who just happens to share character traits with Oberyn and has a similar backstory to Sarella.

Sometimes things really are exactly what they seem. :)

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14 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

They are all drinking at the Quill and Tankard, but that doesn't mean they are all secret Jordaynes, no?

The Feathered Kiss is the name of Sarella's mother's ship. Her mother, like Alleras', is a Summer Islander, who are known for the strength of their goldenheart longbows. I don't think the color of this wood is ever described, but I would suspect that it is yellowish. Alleras' arrows are also golden wood, but the feathers are scarlet, a deep purple, not yellow. The Feathered Kiss, therefore, is a reference to being shot by an arrow, which is what would happen if you were a pirate and tried to board it.

Teak wood is not that dark. It is actually a medium-brown.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/TEAK-WOOD-GHANA-TEAK_111135092.html

When Sam meets Alleras, he describes him with "skin the color of light brown ale," very much like a salty Dornishman, which I admit would include House Jordayne.

As for the name spelled backward, remember that this is not Martin trying to disguise the identity of a character, but the character trying to disguise her identity in Oldtown. So it is perfectly plausible that she would choose to spell it backward.

And of course the Jordaynes are working with the Martells to exact revenge on the Lannisters, but that is no reason to think that they have a plant in Oldtown who just happens to share character traits with Oberyn and has a similar backstory to Sarella.

Sometimes things really are exactly what they seem. :)

Yes i agree with you with the way sarella could hide her own identity by spelling it backwards. The skincolor could be from any salty dorner or summer islander that is for both not really evidence. But i like the theory that all kind of pieces from the jordayne sigil are in that 1 chapter. But sarella being alerras is bit more logical. Only if shae is sarella, than i think the one in oldtown is a jordayne.

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The Order of the Greenhand made a video about the very theory that you're talking about, that Shae is actually Sarella. Their video can be summerised as such (not chronologically):

  • Sarella is described as always asking into things and places she doesn't belong to (a common habit of Shae) and because of that she is not very well-liked. Alleras is doesn't do that (Sam just tells him what he knows with no pressure from Alleras) and is actually very well-liked by (almost) everyone.
  • Alleras is (apparently) very popular with the ladies, which makes it odd, since he would most likely have slept with a few of them.
  • How on earth would Sarella/Shae go about actually impersonating as Alleras, a man, for months, maybe years and no one would find out?
  • Sarella is said to be somewhere where she can't be reached to be brought back to Sunspear, but Alleras pointed out to Sam that an apprentice of the Citadel can disappear for a while from the Citadel and no one will ask questions, so it's weird that the Martells and Sandsnakes can't reach her if she is Alleras. But Shae is at a place where she can't be reached and taken away.
  • Just because someone is a Summer Islander, that does not necessarily mean that they have black skin; the people of the Isle of Women, the island where some of the Rhoynar women who followed Nymeria but settled on the island when they reached the Summer Isles, may have brown skin, rather than black skin. They'd still be Summer Islanders.
  • Edit: Also, one of the characters says that Alleras has bathed with them. Even if he were to turn his back to them, you would still be able to tell whether or not someone is a woman.

You should really just watch their video regarding it. I am very skeptical, but I always love what they give out.

Edited by Vaedys Targaryen
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10 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

The Order of the Greenhand made a video about the very theory that you're talking about, that Shae is actually Sarella. Their video can be summerised as such (not chronologically):

  • Sarella is described as always asking into things and places she doesn't belong to (a common habit of Shae) and because of that she is not very well-liked. Alleras is doesn't do that (Sam just tells him what he knows with no pressure from Alleras) and is actually very well-liked by (almost) everyone.
  • Alleras is (apparently) very popular with the ladies, which makes it odd, since he would most likely have slept with a few of them.
  • How on earth would Sarella/Shae go about actually impersonating as Alleras, a man, for months, maybe years and no one would find out?
  • Sarella is said to be somewhere where she can't be reached to be brought back to Sunspear, but Alleras pointed out to Sam that an apprentice of the Citadel can disappear for a while from the Citadel and no one will ask questions, so it's weird that the Martells and Sandsnakes can't reach her if she is Alleras. But Shae is at a place where she can't be reached and taken away.
  • Just because someone is a Summer Islander, that does not necessarily mean that they have black skin; the people of the Isle of Women, the island where some of the Rhoynar women who followed Nymeria but settled on the island when they reached the Summer Isles, may have brown skin, rather than black skin. They'd still be Summer Islanders.

You should really just watch their video regarding it. I am very skeptical, but I always love what they give out.

I have seen the video now and even when i am not in favor of 1 of the 2, i have to say that i am now more in Shae is sarella camp. 

The popularity with the ladies is very odd accept if its just as a friend and if you can dissapear form the citadel at anytime, than there is no place in westeros where sarella is more easy to reach. I am also thinking about what could be her quest there being a maester for what?? Shae is the one with all the possibiltys for getting information for plotting against the Lannisters. If i was Doran and put my 2 children on a dangerous quest and 1 with a lannister hostage at home. Why not putting 1 in KL. Shae died at KL and some time after he sends Lady Nym to KL. And i think all the hints that alleras is a jordayne are not so coinsedents, talking in 1 chapter about a quill golden longbow dressed in green. I just think George let us think about both theories and George shows all through the books how important symbols are. For me the chance is 60/40. Skin color does not matter so much i agree because its all mixed by two parents.

Edited by Seaserpent

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17 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

Yes i agree with you with the way sarella could hide her own identity by spelling it backwards. The skincolor could be from any salty dorner or summer islander that is for both not really evidence. But i like the theory that all kind of pieces from the jordayne sigil are in that 1 chapter. But sarella being alerras is bit more logical. Only if shae is sarella, than i think the one in oldtown is a jordayne.

Sorry to keep arguing this, but what are the "all kind of pieces from the jordayne sigil" in that chapter? The sigil has a yellow quill and all of the acolytes, including Alleras, are drinking at the Quill and Tankard. Using that logic, can we also say that Alleras is a secret Fossoway because he was shooting at apples? He is called the sphinx, which is a lion-human hybrid. Does that mean he is a secret Lannister or Grandison? He shoots arrows, making him a secret Hunter?

Sorry, but there is just not enough here to override all of the physical traits that connect him to Oberyn Martell. And honestly, if he was a secret Jordayne, Fossoway or anything else, would he just happen to choose the backward name of a Martell bastard who also happens to look half Dornish and half Summer Islander?

14 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

The Order of the Greenhand made a video about the very theory that you're talking about, that Shae is actually Sarella. Their video can be summerised as such (not chronologically):

  • Sarella is described as always asking into things and places she doesn't belong to (a common habit of Shae) and because of that she is not very well-liked. Alleras is doesn't do that (Sam just tells him what he knows with no pressure from Alleras) and is actually very well-liked by (almost) everyone.
  • Alleras is (apparently) very popular with the ladies, which makes it odd, since he would most likely have slept with a few of them.
  • How on earth would Sarella/Shae go about actually impersonating as Alleras, a man, for months, maybe years and no one would find out?
  • Sarella is said to be somewhere where she can't be reached to be brought back to Sunspear, but Alleras pointed out to Sam that an apprentice of the Citadel can disappear for a while from the Citadel and no one will ask questions, so it's weird that the Martells and Sandsnakes can't reach her if she is Alleras. But Shae is at a place where she can't be reached and taken away.
  • Just because someone is a Summer Islander, that does not necessarily mean that they have black skin; the people of the Isle of Women, the island where some of the Rhoynar women who followed Nymeria but settled on the island when they reached the Summer Isles, may have brown skin, rather than black skin. They'd still be Summer Islanders.
  • Edit: Also, one of the characters says that Alleras has bathed with them. Even if he were to turn his back to them, you would still be able to tell whether or not someone is a woman.

You should really just watch their video regarding it. I am very skeptical, but I always love what they give out.

Haven't seen the video. I like bullet-points like you've provided, so thank you. But from this, I can say that the theory is highly speculative without a shred of evidence.

I don't know where they get the idea that Sarella was not well-liked. She is curious and, yes, "forever pushing in where she didn't belong", but Arianne loved all her half-sisters and Sarella was one of her "party of five" as children. Shae asks questions and pushes in where she doesn't belong because she is a spy. That's what spies do.

The text says "All of the serving wenches doted on him", primarily because he is a "comely youth." There is nothing to suggest he has slept with anyone.

Arya disguised herself as a boy from Kings Landing to the God's Eye. People see what they want to see. Alleras has been at the Citadel for about a year.

I'm sure they could pull Sarella out of Oldtown if they knew where and who she was. And that would be only if she wanted to return, which is unlikely now that half of her half-sisters have been imprisoned. Being dragged back to Sunspear to await Doran Martell's pleasure would be more than "a while" and people would surely ask questions. Shae can be reached in King's Landing just as easily as Sarella in Oldtown, but again, only if they know where and who she is.

Alleras does not have black skin. Pate describes it as "dark as teak", which is not all that dark:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/TEAK-WOOD-GHANA-TEAK_111135092.html

Sam sees "light brown ale", which is pretty much what teak looks like. So he's darker than your average Westerosi, darker even than a salty Dornishman, but not ebony black like Jalabar -- which is exactly what you'd expect from a half salty Dornish, have SI.

Nobody says they bathed with Alleras. Lazy Leo says:

Quote

"You may be brown as a nut, but at least you bathe."

This, of course, is meant as a dig at Pate, whom Leo refers to as "our spotted pig boy," and would be more in reference to how each of them smelled.

It would seem logical, of course, that acolytes use a common bathing area, but this would not be an insurmountable problem for a sharp cookie like Sarella. I'm sure the bath house is not occupied 24 hours per day, and there are plenty of other places in Oldtown where she could bathe -- even if she had to use sand.

 

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58 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Sorry to keep arguing this, but what are the "all kind of pieces from the jordayne sigil" in that chapter? The sigil has a yellow quill and all of the acolytes, including Alleras, are drinking at the Quill and Tankard. Using that logic, can we also say that Alleras is a secret Fossoway because he was shooting at apples? He is called the sphinx, which is a lion-human hybrid. Does that mean he is a secret Lannister or Grandison? He shoots arrows, making him a secret Hunter?

Sorry, but there is just not enough here to override all of the physical traits that connect him to Oberyn Martell. And honestly, if he was a secret Jordayne, Fossoway or anything else, would he just happen to choose the backward name of a Martell bastard who also happens to look half Dornish and half Summer Islander?

Haven't seen the video. I like bullet-points like you've provided, so thank you. But from this, I can say that the theory is highly speculative without a shred of evidence.

I don't know where they get the idea that Sarella was not well-liked. She is curious and, yes, "forever pushing in where she didn't belong", but Arianne loved all her half-sisters and Sarella was one of her "party of five" as children. Shae asks questions and pushes in where she doesn't belong because she is a spy. That's what spies do.

The text says "All of the serving wenches doted on him", primarily because he is a "comely youth." There is nothing to suggest he has slept with anyone.

Arya disguised herself as a boy from Kings Landing to the God's Eye. People see what they want to see. Alleras has been at the Citadel for about a year.

I'm sure they could pull Sarella out of Oldtown if they knew where and who she was. And that would be only if she wanted to return, which is unlikely now that half of her half-sisters have been imprisoned. Being dragged back to Sunspear to await Doran Martell's pleasure would be more than "a while" and people would surely ask questions. Shae can be reached in King's Landing just as easily as Sarella in Oldtown, but again, only if they know where and who she is.

Alleras does not have black skin. Pate describes it as "dark as teak", which is not all that dark:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/TEAK-WOOD-GHANA-TEAK_111135092.html

Sam sees "light brown ale", which is pretty much what teak looks like. So he's darker than your average Westerosi, darker even than a salty Dornishman, but not ebony black like Jalabar -- which is exactly what you'd expect from a half salty Dornish, have SI.

Nobody says they bathed with Alleras. Lazy Leo says:

This, of course, is meant as a dig at Pate, whom Leo refers to as "our spotted pig boy," and would be more in reference to how each of them smelled.

It would seem logical, of course, that acolytes use a common bathing area, but this would not be an insurmountable problem for a sharp cookie like Sarella. I'm sure the bath house is not occupied 24 hours per day, and there are plenty of other places in Oldtown where she could bathe -- even if she had to use sand.

 

The skin color doesnt matter much because he or she is halfblood. KL you cannot reach Shae that would be way too dangerous. But the evidence for alleras being sarella is also very thin..its only the name backwards, being slim and the dornish/summer islander as parents. There will be hundreds more in Dorne, because they are close to those islands, even in KL there is one. And seeing the difference between a full grown woman and a boy i could see, even Gendry sees it when Arya (a liitle girl) posed as a boy. So both theories have some evidence. For all we know she could be at the summer isles :) I we count both points of evidence and think also about the jordayne house there is not much more evidence for either of those options shae or alleras. My only question is; if she is alerras what is she doing there, if you have boys in the martell family like quinten or tristane, why pulling up a drag show there with chance of getting caught?

Edited by Seaserpent

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31 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Sorry to keep arguing this, but what are the "all kind of pieces from the jordayne sigil" in that chapter? The sigil has a yellow quill and all of the acolytes, including Alleras, are drinking at the Quill and Tankard. Using that logic, can we also say that Alleras is a secret Fossoway because he was shooting at apples? He is called the sphinx, which is a lion-human hybrid. Does that mean he is a secret Lannister or Grandison? He shoots arrows, making him a secret Hunter?

 

shooting at a fossoway can as easy be a jordayne, who were kings and went to war in the reach. Theorie about half lion half human can also be, but that is only one piece, but everything is possible, but because a martell girl is missing in Dorne, doesnt mean for 100% that she is alleras, all the evidenvce is thin. Maybe the sphinx is the sulution. She has the same eyes as allisers, maybe they are connected. So what you say is true that she could be anyone or maybe she is nobody, just a character to distract us. But shae being at every lannister she gets her hands on looks like a Doran Crony and why not his own niece?

Edited by Seaserpent

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Whoever Alleras is, Shae is not Sarella. When discussing the possible arrest of Sarella, Doran tells Areo to 'leave her to her game', making it clear that she COULD be arrested if Doran chose - if she was in KL where it's 'too dangerous' he would have expressed himself very differently.

3 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

My only question is; if she is alerras what is she doing there, if you have boys in the martell family like quinten or tristane, why pulling up a drag show there with chance of getting caught?

Sarella is at the Citadel because SHE wants to be ('playing her game'), everyone knows her to be inquisitive and intelligent, like her father who also studied there for a while.

She HAS to drag up because she wouldn't be allowed to attend as a woman. It has nothing to do with Doran having boys in the family - that's totally irrelevant because he didn't send her.

Edited by Rufus Snow

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On 9/20/2018 at 3:33 PM, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Heard the theory on a podcast that Shae might have been one of the Sand Snakes. The only 'evidence' was her skin color. I am not convinced. Can anyone present any other evidence? What are your thoughts?

I have an objection to this theory. Like, Tyrion wouldn't have killed her simple as that. Even taken by surprise with her breaches down a Sand Snake would've pulled a better defence. Not just flutter her hands about like Shae.

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On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 12:07 PM, Seaserpent said:

The skin color doesnt matter much because he or she is halfblood. KL you cannot reach Shae that would be way too dangerous. But the evidence for alleras being sarella is also very thin..its only the name backwards, being slim and the dornish/summer islander as parents. There will be hundreds more in Dorne, because they are close to those islands, even in KL there is one. And seeing the difference between a full grown woman and a boy i could see, even Gendry sees it when Arya (a liitle girl) posed as a boy. So both theories have some evidence. For all we know she could be at the summer isles :) I we count both points of evidence and think also about the jordayne house there is not much more evidence for either of those options shae or alleras. My only question is; if she is alerras what is she doing there, if you have boys in the martell family like quinten or tristane, why pulling up a drag show there with chance of getting caught?

Why would King's Landing be too dangerous? Why would it be any more dangerous than Oldtown, which is run by the Hightowers who are ancient enemies of Dorne?

Why would anyone other than Sarella who happens to be half Dornish, half Summer Islander choose the name Alleras if they wanted to keep their true identity a secret? Was this just a coincidence, or is there a reason why they would want use a double-secret identity in which one identity happens to be bastard daughter of one of the most powerful and dangerous men on the planet?

What makes you think there are hundreds of Summer Islanders in Dorne but only one in King's Landing? For your information, there are multiple sightings of Summer Islanders in KL:

Catelyn sees a swan ship when she arrives at the capital.

Both Chataya and Alayaya are Summer Islanders.

Exotic dancers from the Summer Isles perform at Joffrey's wedding.

I challenge you to find one mention of a Summer Islander in Dorne. I'm sure they are there, but the idea that a Summer Islander would be unusual in KL but common as dirt in Dorne is patently absurd. The Summer Islanders are famed for their ships and their trade. They sail all over the world.

Sorry, but there is absolutely no evidence that Alleras is anyone else but Sarella. We don't know what she is doing there, but she is close to Marwyn and is very interested in dragons. But I think your desire to find an alternate truth to Alleras' identity has caused you to miss the real significance of her presence. The prologue opens with the acolytes discussing dragons and Alleras is pestering Mollander to throw apples out over the river so he can shoot them with arrows -- exactly the kind of training you need if you were thinking of someday shooting an arrow through a dragon's eye.

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 12:26 PM, Seaserpent said:

shooting at a fossoway can as easy be a jordayne, who were kings and went to war in the reach. Theorie about half lion half human can also be, but that is only one piece, but everything is possible, but because a martell girl is missing in Dorne, doesnt mean for 100% that she is alleras, all the evidenvce is thin. Maybe the sphinx is the sulution. She has the same eyes as allisers, maybe they are connected. So what you say is true that she could be anyone or maybe she is nobody, just a character to distract us. But shae being at every lannister she gets her hands on looks like a Doran Crony and why not his own niece?

No, all evidence is not thin. Linking one word out of a chapter to a sigil is thin. Physical resemblance, a backward name, and references to a "game" she is playing is very strong.

And the only way you can believe Shae is Sarella is to ignore the evidence that disproves it: her cream-colored skin. In what possible way could a Sandy Dornishman and a Summer Islander produce a daughter with cream-colored skin?

Sorry, but you're not just barking up the wrong tree with these theories; your not even in the forest.

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22 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Why would King's Landing be too dangerous? Why would it be any more dangerous than Oldtown, which is run by the Hightowers who are ancient enemies of Dorne?

Why would anyone other than Sarella who happens to be half Dornish, half Summer Islander choose the name Alleras if they wanted to keep their true identity a secret? Was this just a coincidence, or is there a reason why they would want use a double-secret identity in which one identity happens to be bastard daughter of one of the most powerful and dangerous men on the planet?

What makes you think there are hundreds of Summer Islanders in Dorne but only one in King's Landing? For your information, there are multiple sightings of Summer Islanders in KL:

Catelyn sees a swan ship when she arrives at the capital.

Both Chataya and Alayaya are Summer Islanders.

Exotic dancers from the Summer Isles perform at Joffrey's wedding.

No, all evidence is not thin. Linking one word out of a chapter to a sigil is thin. Physical resemblance, a backward name, and references to a "game" she is playing is very strong.

And the only way you can believe Shae is Sarella is to ignore the evidence that disproves it: her cream-colored skin. In what possible way could a Sandy Dornishman and a Summer Islander produce a daughter with cream-colored skin?

Sorry, but you're not just barking up the wrong tree with these theories; your not even in the forest.

I did mean to say there is only one Summer islander in KL, i meaned at least one like you said below, so they are often in the story, so that alleras is half dornish sum islander can be totaly normal doesnt mean he/she is Oberyns child. That is very thin evidence. 

I am saying all the evidence is not so strong and not everybody is secretly somebody else. Alleras is hafl dornish half summer islander she said.  She can be everything and i think he is likely from house Jordayne, but can also be half sandy or stony. But that she is more light than a summer islander is big because she is halfblood. 

Spelling your name backwards doesnt make it very secret! I just think not everybody has to be secretly somebody else in teh beginning of this topic, but if alleras is somebody else my guess would be jordayne. Shae being Alleras has far more stronger evidence than that SHE (woman) is alleras.

KL is waaay more dangerous than citadel, doesnt matter if they are ancient enemies. In the citadel everybody is welcome who drops the family name, that is no reason at all. Tyrell and Dorne are not at war and the Martells are also welcome in the citadell. In KL with secret identity means her dead by cersei or maybe even war. SHae could have know way more than cersei good have thought.

 

Edited by Seaserpent

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1 hour ago, Seaserpent said:

I did mean to say there is only one Summer islander in KL, i meaned at least one like you said below, so they are often in the story, so that alleras is half dornish sum islander can be totaly normal doesnt mean he/she is Oberyns child. That is very thin evidence. 

I am saying all the evidence is not so strong and not everybody is secretly somebody else. Alleras is hafl dornish half summer islander she said.  She can be everything and i think he is likely from house Jordayne, but can also be half sandy or stony. But that she is more light than a summer islander is big because she is halfblood. 

Spelling your name backwards doesnt make it very secret! I just think not everybody has to be secretly somebody else in teh beginning of this topic, but if alleras is somebody else my guess would be jordayne. Shae being Alleras has far more stronger evidence than that SHE (woman) is alleras.

KL is waaay more dangerous than citadel, doesnt matter if they are ancient enemies. In the citadel everybody is welcome who drops the family name, that is no reason at all. Tyrell and Dorne are not at war and the Martells are also welcome in the citadell. In KL with secret identity means her dead by cersei or maybe even war. SHae could have know way more than cersei good have thought.

 

Sorry, this conversation has become a waste of time. Good luck and happy reading.

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