Fate of Olyvar Frey

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:44 AM, Kandrax said:

Also, nothing he had done so far make him worse than other Freys.

Nothing we've seen, but he has a reputation. Edwyn clearly hates him, Merrett thinks poorly of him. Edmure refers to him as a "nasty piece of business" I think, and Robb says he's not named black for the colour of his beard.

[Guest]

So many Frey's, I lose track of which is which. Is this the one who was betrothed to Arya. I remember he was Roose's cupbearer after "Nan" left. He didn't talk at all in Jamie's SOS chapter and seemed completely terrified of Roose and everything in general. Much different from the arrogant squire in Ayra CoK chapters. What did Roose do to him/what happened to him to make him change? did he get his tongue ripped out? has he discovered some secret of Roose's and is only being kept around for some screwed up reasons. this could be interesting.

[300 H&H Magnum]

On 9/22/2018 at 1:04 PM, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

His mother was a Rosby, so after the death of Gyles Rosby in AFfC his older brother Perwyn could be one of the six claimants to the Rosby inheritance. After the Red Wedding I doubt Olyvar is too happy with Walder Frey and the rest of his family, so if Perwyn becomes the new Lord Rosby I could see Olyvar going with him to Kings Landing to get away from House Frey. 

Let's not overestimate his devotion to Robb Stark.  He's just a naive boy who doesn't see the big picture.  The concept of a sacred oath is beyond his grasp right now when balanced against the man who was his mentor.  The young and the immature overvalue friendship and fail to realize the importance of rules, the law, oaths, and promises.  He will realize how right Walder Frey was when he matures.  What Robb did to his family was not a minor offense.  The red wedding served a dual purpose.  To help the Freys integrate themselves back into the good part of Westeros society and protect their vast wealth from any punitive damages for their part in the illegal rebellion.  The red wedding and the dismay of the north is a small price to pay. 

[Stormking902]

9 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Let's not overestimate his devotion to Robb Stark.  He's just a naive boy who doesn't see the big picture.  The concept of a sacred oath is beyond his grasp right now when balanced against the man who was his mentor.  The young and the immature overvalue friendship and fail to realize the importance of rules, the law, oaths, and promises.  He will realize how right Walder Frey was when he matures.  What Robb did to his family was not a minor offense.  The red wedding served a dual purpose.  To help the Freys integrate themselves back into the good part of Westeros society and protect their vast wealth from any punitive damages for their part in the illegal rebellion.  The red wedding and the dismay of the north is a small price to pay. 

Its not just the North who hate the Freys everyone does.....

The nobility of Westeros already look down on the Freys for being so "young" in comparison to the other houses of Westeros, now they all hate them because they broke guest right which is the 2nd WORST crime in Westeros behind Kinslaying. 

The Freys really screwed themselves because the mariage offers in the future are gonna be near non existent unless the house they are negotiating marriage arrangements with are poor as dirt and need the Freys wealth. Also if the Freys ever find themselves in another war no enemy will ever negotiate with them or they would be fools, so you better hope you WIN your next conflict which with everyone hating you allies will be few and far between. 

[Nittanian]

On 10/18/2018 at 10:12 PM, Mooncalf said:

So many Frey's, I lose track of which is which. Is this the one who was betrothed to Arya. I remember he was Roose's cupbearer after "Nan" left.

You're thinking of Elmar, who is already serving as Roose's squire before the fall of Harrenhal. Olyvar was Robb's squire.

Quote

It was almost evenfall when the new master of Harrenhal arrived. He had a plain face, beardless and ordinary, notable only for his queer pale eyes. Neither plump, thin, nor muscular, he wore black ringmail and a spotted pink cloak. The sigil on his banner looked like a man dipped in blood. "On your knees for the Lord of the Dreadfort!" shouted his squire, a boy no older than Arya, and Harrenhal knelt. (ACOK Arya IX)

Quote

Elmar Frey was no older than she was, and short for his age besides. He had been rolling a barrel of sand across the uneven stone, and was red-faced from exertion. Arya went to help him. Together they pushed the barrel all the way to the wall and back again, then stood it upright. She could hear the sand shifting around inside as Elmar pried open the lid and pulled out a chainmail hauberk. "Do you think it's clean enough?" As Roose Bolton's squire, it was his task to keep his mail shiny bright. (ACOK Arya X)

 

Quote

He didn't talk at all in Jamie's SOS chapter and seemed completely terrified of Roose and everything in general. Much different from the arrogant squire in Ayra CoK chapters. What did Roose do to him/what happened to him to make him change? did he get his tongue ripped out? has he discovered some secret of Roose's and is only being kept around for some screwed up reasons. this could be interesting.

Rather than terrified, Elmar seems dutiful to me when Roose dines with the famous Kingslayer in ASOS Jaime V. Similarly, "Nan" is silent when Roose meets with the Freys in ACOK Arya X. I doubt Roose would have torn out the tongue of Walder's youngest son without the text mentioning it. Elmar is mentioned in the ADWD appendix but not in Theon's chapters, so if he didn't go north maybe he remained at the Twins when Roose stops there en route to Moat Cailin. 

[norwaywolf123]

On 11/9/2018 at 12:53 PM, Stormking902 said:

Its not just the North who hate the Freys everyone does.....

The nobility of Westeros already look down on the Freys for being so "young" in comparison to the other houses of Westeros, now they all hate them because they broke guest right which is the 2nd WORST crime in Westeros behind Kinslaying. 

The Freys really screwed themselves because the mariage offers in the future are gonna be near non existent unless the house they are negotiating marriage arrangements with are poor as dirt and need the Freys wealth. Also if the Freys ever find themselves in another war no enemy will ever negotiate with them or they would be fools, so you better hope you WIN your next conflict which with everyone hating you allies will be few and far between. 

The Freys are not doomed! That said breaking the guest right will stain House Frey's and it's members reputation.

Let's say that House Frey supports House Targaryen who is also supported by House Stark. If such a situation happened then the Starks may have to live it(red wedding) without taking revenge.

The Frey's have much to offer prospective partners. 

[Curled Finger]

On 10/4/2018 at 2:35 PM, M.Alhazred said:

Olyvar was thrown out is what I've always thought or GRRM forgot about him.

I've been relistening to ASOS recently with an interest in our missing Robb loyal.   I believe we are told that Olyvar was "sent away" from the Twins for the Red Wedding.   Westerling seems to disappear in the fashion of the Blackfish by jumping or falling in the river trying to save Grey Wind.   Tyrek Lannister just disappears without a trace in the bread riots.  Not my idea, but it's very interesting if you can apply any of these disappearances to characters who show up later at the Wall or in sell sword companies in Essos.   Satin is someone, but who?   He doesn't look like a Lannister, but he's obviously well educated.   Could he be a Frey or Westerling loyal to Robb who tries to further the King of North's cause in seeking out his brother?  Both places are really good places to subvert identities.   Satin is said to be 18 I think, where Frey is only 12 and Westerling appears to be somewhere in between.   But how reliable is anything we are told?   Not trying to imply that Satin is any of our 3 famously missing characters, but trying to fit any of them to him does cause an exploration of Satin which ultimately makes you wonder how this guy had no other option but prostitution.    

I think we almost need to see Frey and Westerling fates.  Jamie gets such detail about Westerling's last moments while Cat notes Frey's absence and knows this isn't right.   Honestly I don't recall how old the Westerling boy is, but both boys have served a King and seem so loyal.  You almost see hope for both awful families in these boys.   

[HexMachina]

4 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I've been relistening to ASOS recently with an interest in our missing Robb loyal.   I believe we are told that Olyvar was "sent away" from the Twins for the Red Wedding.   Westerling seems to disappear in the fashion of the Blackfish by jumping or falling in the river trying to save Grey Wind.   Tyrek Lannister just disappears without a trace in the bread riots.  Not my idea, but it's very interesting if you can apply any of these disappearances to characters who show up later at the Wall or in sell sword companies in Essos.   Satin is someone, but who?   He doesn't look like a Lannister, but he's obviously well educated.   Could he be a Frey or Westerling loyal to Robb who tries to further the King of North's cause in seeking out his brother?  Both places are really good places to subvert identities.   Satin is said to be 18 I think, where Frey is only 12 and Westerling appears to be somewhere in between.   But how reliable is anything we are told?   Not trying to imply that Satin is any of our 3 famously missing characters, but trying to fit any of them to him does cause an exploration of Satin which ultimately makes you wonder how this guy had no other option but prostitution.    

I think we almost need to see Frey and Westerling fates.  Jamie gets such detail about Westerling's last moments while Cat notes Frey's absence and knows this isn't right.   Honestly I don't recall how old the Westerling boy is, but both boys have served a King and seem so loyal.  You almost see hope for both awful families in these boys.   

Maybe, but Cat also notes the absence of a couple of other friendly Frey’s. Alesander I think, and another? Imo it’s all just part of her growing horror as she realises what’s going on. If Olyvar shows up anywhere I suspect it will be related to the Rosby inheritance. He was perhaps Ser Gyles’ mystery ward.

As for Westerling, I tend to think he is actually dead, the Grey Wind thing was just another tragic anecdote to add to the horror of the RW. I do entertain the odd crackpot myself though, and feel that if he does show up it is because he found the BWB and/or Blackfish

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Maybe, but Cat also notes the absence of a couple of other friendly Frey’s. Alesander I think, and another? Imo it’s all just part of her growing horror as she realises what’s going on. If Olyvar shows up anywhere I suspect it will be related to the Rosby inheritance. He was perhaps Ser Gyles’ mystery ward.

As for Westerling, I tend to think he is actually dead, the Grey Wind thing was just another tragic anecdote to add to the horror of the RW. I do entertain the odd crackpot myself though, and feel that if he does show up it is because he found the BWB and/or Blackfish

Definitely part of Cat's dawning realization.   Still some swords have 2 edges...

How does a Frey, Alessander or Olyvar, becoming the heir to Rosby, tie into the relationship between Robb and his squire?  It could absolutely be unrelated but this story has me noticing more than 1 place where fates cross...

I'm hoping without having anything concrete to base it on, that we will hear that some Freys (and Westerlings and Lannisters) were actually decent, not just sleazy.   

[M.Alhazred]

6 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I've been relistening to ASOS recently with an interest in our missing Robb loyal.   I believe we are told that Olyvar was "sent away" from the Twins for the Red Wedding.   Westerling seems to disappear in the fashion of the Blackfish by jumping or falling in the river trying to save Grey Wind.   Tyrek Lannister just disappears without a trace in the bread riots.  Not my idea, but it's very interesting if you can apply any of these disappearances to characters who show up later at the Wall or in sell sword companies in Essos.   Satin is someone, but who?   He doesn't look like a Lannister, but he's obviously well educated.   Could he be a Frey or Westerling loyal to Robb who tries to further the King of North's cause in seeking out his brother?  Both places are really good places to subvert identities.   Satin is said to be 18 I think, where Frey is only 12 and Westerling appears to be somewhere in between.   But how reliable is anything we are told?   Not trying to imply that Satin is any of our 3 famously missing characters, but trying to fit any of them to him does cause an exploration of Satin which ultimately makes you wonder how this guy had no other option but prostitution.    

I think we almost need to see Frey and Westerling fates.  Jamie gets such detail about Westerling's last moments while Cat notes Frey's absence and knows this isn't right.   Honestly I don't recall how old the Westerling boy is, but both boys have served a King and seem so loyal.  You almost see hope for both awful families in these boys.   

I think he got kicked outta The Twins and family. As for Westerling people go MIA all the time during war so if the series ends like that I wouldn't be upset,..

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Olyvar Frey is just a kid who got attached to a friend.  His family is not going to kill him for having feelings for Robb.  At the same time, his feelings towards Robb cannot be accepted by the Freys.  Robb became a hated enemy on the moment he broke his word to Walder Frey.  It's not just about keeping promises.  The Freys lost their first son while fighting for Robb.  Robb turning around and insulting the family the way he did made him an enemy.  Robb forgave himself for doing something more terrible than Rickard Karstark but he couldn't do the same for Rickard Karstark.   He and Jon are alike.  Their brand of justice is decided by their personal feelings towards the guilty party.  That's why their own allies killed them.  Robb and Jon were both incapable of carrying out justice.  They were both unfit for command.  

[Adam Yozza]

15 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Olyvar Frey is just a kid who got attached to a friend.  His family is not going to kill him for having feelings for Robb.  At the same time, his feelings towards Robb cannot be accepted by the Freys.  Robb became a hated enemy on the moment he broke his word to Walder Frey.  It's not just about keeping promises.  The Freys lost their first son while fighting for Robb.  Robb turning around and insulting the family the way he did made him an enemy.  Robb forgave himself for doing something more terrible than Rickard Karstark but he couldn't do the same for Rickard Karstark.   He and Jon are alike.  Their brand of justice is decided by their personal feelings towards the guilty party.  That's why their own allies killed them.  Robb and Jon were both incapable of carrying out justice.  They were both unfit for command.  

Erm, except A) Robb didn't really forgive himself, he tricked Cat into a position where she had to accept his decision and B)What Robb did to the Frey's is not actually worse than what Karstark did. If you actually, genuinely think that murdering two innocent defenseless kids is better than breaking a marriage pact; and not just saying because 'I hate the Starks'; then you should probably seriously think about your morals. Also C) Jon gave Slynt three oppurtunities to accept his orders. Everytime he denied them. As a Lord Commander who's support base isn't very loyal to begin with, that can't be allowed to stand. Robb's own allies killed him because Lord Frey is petty and spiteful and wouldn't accept any attempt at reconciliation. Jon' allies killed them because they're biased, a bit racist, shortsighted and scared. Which, while still kinda bad, is more justifiable than the Red Wedding. 

 

[Adam Yozza]

Personally I think they sent him to Rosby; his cousin or something; to get him out of the way of the RW and then after he heard what they'd done he refused to return and is the ward Pycelle refers to all the time. Might be sheltering Blackfish even.

[Adam Yozza]

On 11/9/2018 at 2:43 AM, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Let's not overestimate his devotion to Robb Stark.  He's just a naive boy who doesn't see the big picture.  The concept of a sacred oath is beyond his grasp right now when balanced against the man who was his mentor.  The young and the immature overvalue friendship and fail to realize the importance of rules, the law, oaths, and promises.  He will realize how right Walder Frey was when he matures.  What Robb did to his family was not a minor offense.  The red wedding served a dual purpose.  To help the Freys integrate themselves back into the good part of Westeros society and protect their vast wealth from any punitive damages for their part in the illegal rebellion.  The red wedding and the dismay of the north is a small price to pay. 

Yeah, because it's definitely just the North.

The Frey's are fighting amongst themselves already, even with Walder still alive. As soon as he croaks it's all out civil war, mainly between Edwyn and Black Walder. Every house in the Riverlands hates them, even more than they hate the Lannisters. The prisoners Jaime just ordered transferred out of Frey custody are the only reason they don't have their fellow Riverlords butchering them Manderly style.

That's without mentioning the Brotherhood now specifically Frey hunting and that's just the Riverlands.

The Vale clearly despise them and have no interest in any sort of dealings with them to the extent that within a few months they're considered the shining example of how guests and hosts should not act (Remember Waynwood during the negotiaitions with Littlefinger? "We're not Frey's" or something to that effect when Corbray draws his sword?). The Tyrell's and the rest of the Reach don't seem to be all that fond of what went down either. Sure Robb was their enemy but I get the sense that the majority of Reach Lords felt the RW was ill done and would have preferrred something less despicable.

Oh and lets not forget turning the Faith against them. Right as they start gathering power again. All it takes is one word from the Starry Sept and the common folk will suddenly start to see the Frey's as the most evil, despicable people in the world.

The Lannister's themselves aren't that fond of the Frey's either and they're related to them. Hell Cersei is already planning on sacrificing them to satisy the faith and I imagine Tywin or Kevan or Tyrion or Jaime in the same spot would happily do the same. And Roose; their one 'ally' in the North, is all to happy to let them die to Stannis. At best he's apathetic towards them.

The Ironborn just hate all Greenlanders and while we haven't heard their thoughts on the matter directly I can't imagine Doran; or in fact most of the Dornish; want to be all pally with the Frey's.

So tell me whose good graces exactly the Frey's are in?

[Valyrian Lance]

On 10/3/2018 at 12:54 PM, Seaserpent said:

Yes i said Stevron was his brother that is not true, but exactly what @Health and Safety Rep for the Door Guards of Westros says. I think its pretty clear black walder is climbing the ladder of succession i have no doubt about that. So I did not look into how far Olyvar is from the Twins, maybe anybody? Also i think Rosby is more likelier for Olyvar after the Lannisters are out of power.

Olyvar is the 18th son of Walder Frey some of which have sons and grandsons. I think he is 38th in the line of succession assuming daughters are not inheriting (agnatic primogeniture).

[Alexis-something-Rose]

On 11/11/2018 at 2:02 PM, Curled Finger said:

I've been relistening to ASOS recently with an interest in our missing Robb loyal.   I believe we are told that Olyvar was "sent away" from the Twins for the Red Wedding.   Westerling seems to disappear in the fashion of the Blackfish by jumping or falling in the river trying to save Grey Wind.   Tyrek Lannister just disappears without a trace in the bread riots.  Not my idea, but it's very interesting if you can apply any of these disappearances to characters who show up later at the Wall or in sell sword companies in Essos.   Satin is someone, but who?   He doesn't look like a Lannister, but he's obviously well educated.   Could he be a Frey or Westerling loyal to Robb who tries to further the King of North's cause in seeking out his brother?  Both places are really good places to subvert identities.   Satin is said to be 18 I think, where Frey is only 12 and Westerling appears to be somewhere in between.   But how reliable is anything we are told?   Not trying to imply that Satin is any of our 3 famously missing characters, but trying to fit any of them to him does cause an exploration of Satin which ultimately makes you wonder how this guy had no other option but prostitution.      

Satin arrives at the Wall in Clash of Kings, before the Night's Watch set out on the Great Ranging. 

Perwyn turned up at the siege of Riverrun. I think Olyvar will turn up as well. He does have a maester brother who is in service with House Hunter in the Vale. If he went there, he could enter the story through Sansa's chapters.

 

[Rondo]

Olyvar is like Rickon.  Unimportant to the plot.  Better players like Big Walder is more deserving of The Twins.  

[Curled Finger]

5 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Satin arrives at the Wall in Clash of Kings, before the Night's Watch set out on the Great Ranging. 

Perwyn turned up at the siege of Riverrun. I think Olyvar will turn up as well. He does have a maester brother who is in service with House Hunter in the Vale. If he went there, he could enter the story through Sansa's chapters.

 

Hey now, that's some good detective work, Lady.   Isn't it just fascinating how GRRM weaves this so intricately.    He hasn't forgotten Olyvar Frey at all.   That's 3 possible ways in which this minor player can come back in a big way.   Now if we find that Olyvar doesn't return to the fray (sorry, couldn't resist) we can rest assured he was thinking about it.   Very nice. 

[Curled Finger]

On 11/11/2018 at 5:35 PM, M.Alhazred said:

I think he got kicked outta The Twins and family. As for Westerling people go MIA all the time during war so if the series ends like that I wouldn't be upset,..

Are you saying that the Freys disowned Olyvar?  I don't believe that for a second, but I gotta hand it to you, it's a good idea.   Agreed, people do indeed go missing all the time during war.  So why draw our attention to any of them?  Tyrek is no more important than any of the others and I got the serious feeling that Westerling was a true believer in Robb.   It's so curious that this specific character, a brand new good brother, new to the cause and this is the 1 GRRM chose to try to save Grey Wind?   Jeyne sure appears to have loved her king--she's taken beatings over her dead husband.  Why the focus on the Lannister cousins taken prisoner or Lancel?  (To show us how valuable these people are on the chess board? Remember Brienne's dad offered 300 dragons I think, for her release. Jamie thinks this is a fair ransom for a house knight.  There was a price for the Lannister boys as well as Jamie--I wonder if any of the Red Wedding hostages are worth ransom to any of the players?)    No, it would not be a terrible story if we never learn any of their fates, or even if Satin has a different backstory than the one he gives...but these are such interesting little prayers (sacrifices) to the overall story.   

[chrisdaw]

Maybe put on ice for later, an alternative future Lord of the Crossing to Big Walder.