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What would Ned have done if Jon had white hair and purple eyes?


Kaibaman

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When Ned went up to the Tower of Joy to see his sister after she had given birth to a son (who just happens to be the progeny of the late crown prince), I think its safe to say that he must have breathed a sign of relief when seeing his newborn nephew for the first time and saw that he takes after his mother more than his father in the genetic lottery. The fact that Jon has the same dark brown hair and grey eyes as himself meant he could take him home with him and pass him off as his bastard and nobody would have been the wiser.

But I wonder, had Jon been unlucky enough to of been born with any of the features from his father's side (if not all of them) that would have made him a dead ringer for a Targaryen, what would Ned have done? I doubt he could have kept his promise to Lyanna in taking care of him as his purple eyes, silver hair and fair milky skin would have marked him for death if anyone especially Robert takes a good look at him. Furthermore even if Ned managed to safely take Jon to Winterfell with him, there's no way he can claim he's Jon's father as Valyrian looks are an extreme rarity in Westeros. Plus having a Targaryen looking kid growing up in Winterfell would put Ned's family in jeopardy if word of it ever gets back to Robert.

I suppose the sensible thing to do in this scenario would have been to leave Jon with the Daynes after delivering the Sword of the Morning to them. They could easily pass him off as one of their own if they were willing to oblige. Then again with Jon being on the other side of the continent, Ned will have very few ways to check up on him and make sure his nephew is ok and growing up well, therefore he wouldn't be able to keep his promise to his sister in taking care of him. Its a terrible dilemma.

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I think if he just had the purple eyes Ned could've gotten away with it, but if he had pure Targaryen features I don't think he could've taken him to Winterfell.

He could try and convince everyone he slept with a Lysene camp follower or something, but I doubt most people would believe him. Leaving him in Dorne with the Daynes would've been a good option, since Darkstar has pretty much all Targaryen features it wouldn't be a stretch to pass Jon off as one of them. You're right, him being on the other side of the world would make it difficult to check up on him, but taking him to Winterfell would've been pure suicide. Maybe he could've sent him to live with Howland Reed at Greywater Watch, since the Crannogmen rarely leave the swamps and most outsiders don't venture in, so he would've been pretty safe. 

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The "Targ-look" isn't exclusive to member of House Targaryen. Robert didn't perform ethnic cleansing on all Westerosi people of Valyrian stock after he became king after all. So raising a bastard with "Targ-looks" shouldn't be some sort of instant death sentence. 

That said Ned might be nervous about Robert meeting a grown Jon if he looks similar to Rhaegar.

 

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Now hang on.  While Valyrian features are rare in Westeros they are not unknown.   There are the Lyseni and the Daynes.  In that Ashara Dayne was the rumored mother of Ned's bastard why couldn't Ned claim him?  Is all this secret Lannister claimed baratheon genetics a thing that indicates that children only take their father's features?  4 of Ned's other children had Tully features.   What Ned's seed is not strong? 

It's long stuck in my craw why Ned would chose this particular time to return Dawn to Starfall.   He's got a baby to hide and people and horses to dispose of and towers to pull down.  I get it that Ned was Joe Honor--no argument from me there.  Still talk about terrible planning.  

I think Ned would have taken Jon regardless his appearance--Stark, Baratheon, Lannister or Targaryen.  He loved his nephew and that was that.  Ned played fair and didn't seem to have the nasty political acumen of so many lords of Westeros.  Had Jon appeared to be Targish, as many above have described, it's unlikely he would have kept the child at Winterfell.  I don't think it's likely Ned would have left Jon anywhere, but Starfall seems a very good place to have obfuscated a Targ baby who looked like a Targ, read Dayne, baby.   Still, something else was obviously happening at Starfall that negated that place as an option for leaving Jon.  It would not have been convenient to check in on Jon.   No, I think if Jon had been Targish looking a much better hideout would have been reasonably closer and guaranteed to safe guard the baby.   Grey Water Watch is my best guess.   It cannot even be found unless it wants to be found.  Yes, this would have been a very safe place for a secret Targaryen.  

I wonder if Jon had been raised outside Winterfell if he would still be a child of the North, of Winterfell where the Ice part of his song is so well defined.  I wonder if Cat would have been nicer to Jon had he not resembled Ned so strongly.   

Interesting things to consider in this OP, @Kaibaman.

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49 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Now hang on. 

Eddard would have shaved the tender newborn baby's head to get rid of the ummmmmmmmm  I dunna remember if martin used the word platinum hair color when describing Targ's.

Kinda like Egg traveling round Westeros with a bald head and straw hat.

Serious answer --- evidently Eddard didn't have to deal with the hair problem or eye color problem.

Somehow Eddard got his bastard or his sister's son home to WF.

 

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I think Ned would have waited awhile. It takes a long time to get back to Winterfell from the south. Why "wait"? Because Anglo (which we assume the 1st men were) babies often are born with blonde hair and blue eyes. Some stay that way, but the majority darken - hair and/or eyes.

I submit that Jon probably did have pale hair and blue eyes. But, as some of you have pointed out, even that need not have been a deal-breaker. Although Ned was probably relieved when Baby "Jon" (or whoever) matured into darker, "Stark"er colors. But whatever - he wasn't about to abandon his beloved sister's only child or fail to protect him.

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26 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

I think Ned would have brought him to WF regardless, to keep him safe. Maybe claimed his mother was a Dayne or Essosi.

For Ned to claim Jon is half Dayne, he would have to get the Daynes to go along with the ruse in case some nosy fellow decides to do a bit of poking around. I'm not so sure they would be willing to do something so treasonous it would put them all in danger if things go wrong. But also while they are taking a huge risk for Ned's sake there's really nothing in it for them, and why would they be willing to sully their family's honor by allowing Ned to boast he had deflowered one of their ladies?

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2 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Eddard would have shaved the tender newborn baby's head to get rid of the ummmmmmmmm  I dunna remember if martin used the word platinum hair color when describing Targ's.

Kinda like Egg traveling round Westeros with a bald head and straw hat.

Serious answer --- evidently Eddard didn't have to deal with the hair problem or eye color problem.

Somehow Eddard got his bastard or his sister's son home to WF.

 

You are so spicy tonight, Pup.   

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On 9/23/2018 at 5:51 AM, EloImFizzy said:

, but taking him to Winterfell would've been pure suicide. 

idk about that, with Targ looks i still don't think Robert or anyone else would start a war over it, especially if he can pass Jon off as being half Dayne 

 

However if they knew Lyanna was pregnant, the obvious Targ looks, the honourable Eddard Stark sleeping around on his wife, yeah people might ask questions. Would Robert straight up want to kill Rhaegar' & Lyanna's 'rape' baby?

 

23 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I wonder if Cat would have been nicer to Jon had he not resembled Ned so strongly.   

 If he looked like Ashara she'd probably hate him more due to him being fully highborn with a pregistious bloodline. Not to mention he'd likely be better looking than her own children.

 

Also wondering how much time Lord Stark spent in Dorne. Supposedly enough to have a baby with Ashara Dayne, or so Catelyn thought, which is like a solid 9 months for that alone?

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20 hours ago, zandru said:

I submit that Jon probably did have pale hair and blue eyes. But, as some of you have pointed out, even that need not have been a deal-breaker. Although Ned was probably relieved when Baby "Jon" (or whoever) matured into darker, "Stark"er colors. But whatever - he wasn't about to abandon his beloved sister's only child or fail to protect him.

I don't know if you are being tongue in cheek on this one, but Catelyn II, AGoT 6, when she introduces Ashara into the story, I think there's a really good indication in that passage as to Jon's looks when he was a baby. I think there's a really good chance he had the violet eyes or a variance of that as a baby. That's the trait Catelyn zeroes in on in her thoughts. 

"And as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any trueborn sons she bore him."

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3 hours ago, lrresistable said:

However if they knew Lyanna was pregnant, the obvious Targ looks, the honourable Eddard Stark sleeping around on his wife, yeah people might ask questions. Would Robert straight up want to kill Rhaegar' & Lyanna's 'rape' baby?

 

 If he looked like Ashara she'd probably hate him more due to him being fully highborn with a pregistious bloodline. Not to mention he'd likely be better looking than her own children.

 

Also wondering how much time Lord Stark spent in Dorne. Supposedly enough to have a baby with Ashara Dayne, or so Catelyn thought, which is like a solid 9 months for that alone?

Oh heck yes Robert would have wanted to kill R +L's baby.   He assented to the brutal killing of R +E's babies.   Bob was a jerk.  

I could be wrong because it's been a while, but I'm not sure Ned would have needed to stay in Dorne for the entire 9 months.   What says Ashara was even in Dorne until things got particularly nasty and unsafe?  I wondered why Ned chose his own bastard over Brandon's bastard.   Makes you wonder who the wild wolf actually was...

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2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I could be wrong because it's been a while, but I'm not sure Ned would have needed to stay in Dorne for the entire 9 months.   What says Ashara was even in Dorne until things got particularly nasty and unsafe?  I wondered why Ned chose his own bastard over Brandon's bastard.   Makes you wonder who the wild wolf actually was...

I was under the impression he literally, himself, took Jon with him home. At the very least he arrives that way on seeing Cat when they get back. Timeline doesn't add up for Eddard to have conceived a child in Dorne at the end of the war, but Catelyn is an un-reliable narrator. 

 

If we're talking being in Dorne, it has to be at the end of the rebellion, or he'd be in hostile territory throughout. the Tower of Joy is smack bang beside the Prince's Pass, and presumably Doran would have sentries watching all routes into Dorne, if not an army waiting around ready to move like he does right now in our current timeline.

dunno about Ashara possibly getting pregnant at Harrenhal, but i'm pretty sure the timeline doesn't work out that way for being Jon either. Who do you think Brandon's bastard is?

 

Supposedly she jumped from a tower in Starfall sometime after the war. Noble women aren't usually out and about travelling during war-time, & we have no knowledge or her whereabouts during the war, but if i had to guess, she'd be at home. her being present at the ToJ, hanging out with Rhaegar would also be a fair consideration

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7 hours ago, lrresistable said:

I was under the impression he literally, himself, took Jon with him home. At the very least he arrives that way on seeing Cat when they get back. Timeline doesn't add up for Eddard to have conceived a child in Dorne at the end of the war, but Catelyn is an un-reliable narrator. 

 

If we're talking being in Dorne, it has to be at the end of the rebellion, or he'd be in hostile territory throughout. the Tower of Joy is smack bang beside the Prince's Pass, and presumably Doran would have sentries watching all routes into Dorne, if not an army waiting around ready to move like he does right now in our current timeline.

dunno about Ashara possibly getting pregnant at Harrenhal, but i'm pretty sure the timeline doesn't work out that way for being Jon either. Who do you think Brandon's bastard is?

 

Supposedly she jumped from a tower in Starfall sometime after the war. Noble women aren't usually out and about travelling during war-time, & we have no knowledge or her whereabouts during the war, but if i had to guess, she'd be at home. her being present at the ToJ, hanging out with Rhaegar would also be a fair consideration

Yah the timelines are all murky, friend.  Just a few comments to help unravel or further confuse it all.   Harrenhal does appear to the the place where things got really hinky.   All of a sudden your nutball king comes out of hiding at the Red Keep and a Crannogman visits a tourney?  Lots more there, but i think those are the highlights in this particular circumstance.   I'm almost sure that Howland Reed took baby Jon to Winterfell when Ned went to Starfall.   I would think that every place was pretty hostile.  Remember Ned was in such a hurry at the Tower of Joy he didn't have time (or resources maybe) to arrange for anyone but Lyanna's bodies to be sent home.   It seems to be a big deal to get the dead noble bodies home.   There were 3 kingsguard including the LC as well as his own 5 (I think) men--all noble men.   (Maybe not all, Cassels were not noble)   The only big things I recall Ned taking part in during the rebellion were "rescuing" Stannis at Dragonstone and returning Dawn to Starfall.   He was there when Kings Landing was sacked and this does appear to be where he and Robert had their falling out and 17 or so years parting of ways.  I get the feeling breaking the Tyrell siege of Dragonstone happened after the sacking so I think there is a whole lot more time here than we think.   The siege lasted nearly a year, didn't it?   So hrm.   Ned's got command of the Northern banners and elects to take his most trusted companions?  How can that be?  Ned's been off fostering at the Vale since he was a boy.   Presumably a little boy--I'm thinking 9ish?  Maybe it's just a cool Starks are god loyalty thing?  All I can really point out here is that Dustin was a lord and son of possibly the most ancient 1st Men family in Westeros.   Ned opts to send his awesome horse over his bones?   Nah, this is just hinky.   Back to the timeline as I'm sorry to digress--it all sort of jumbles in and I gots to get it out!   

All these dead and fled.   Dany is said to have been born on Dragonstone, but Stannis is holed up for a year before Ned goes to Dorne.  We are told she is 13 and Jon is 14 in AGOT.   Hrm, @Irresistable, someone has not got the story straight here.   Cat worries that Jon might angle to take her better true born kid's claims to Winterfell.   Cat's got 5 kids, Robb being born in the Riverlands before she takes her show to Winterfell?  Why, Jon is the absolute hands down baby in all of this--how could he possibly stake a claim?   Was he older than Robb, as some folks surmise?   No worries, I will fax you some Execedrin because believe me, I have the same headache you do.   Let's downshift to Lady Dayne for a bit shall we? 

Disclosure:   I'm pretty sure Ashara and Arthur were die hard Rhaegar loyalists.   Murk warning:   I think Ashara was a spy and information specialist for Rhaegar.  But her real job was lady in waiting to Elia, Princess of Dorne and -- well I'm not sure what you call the wife of the heir to the throne.   Prince Consort?   Princess Consort?   Queen in Waiting?   Nonetheless, Ashara's job is to help Elia (and convey intel to or from Rhaegar!).  Elia was being held prisoner at the Red Keep to ensure Dorne's good behavior during the rebellion.   Why would Aerys allow the sister of the finest knight on the entire continent to leave?  Watch out now, tin foil lobbing to follow.  Could it be that Lady Ashara was still in Kings Landing during the sack and she is the person who told Ned Lyanna's location at the TOJ?   Could Ned's A Team companions from KL to the TOJ have included Ashara Dayne?  Where is this baby of hers, anyway?  I think it's entirely probable that Dany is Aerys and Rhaella's daughter.   Ditto for Jon as related to Rhaegar & Lyanna.   But we've still got 2 dead babies, Rhaenys and Aegon and an allegedly dead child of Ashara Dayne's.  We've also got 2 Dayne children we can't really be confident whose children they are, Allyria and Edric.  

My eyes are crossed and covered with tin foil from this point out.   As you may or may not be able to discern because it gets so confusing, I do agree with your thoughts.   In summary, it's just possible that we know nothing.  A shaggy dog story brought to you by Curled Finger.   

 

 

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