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Aline de Gavrillac

The House of the Undying

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The House of the Undying

Quote

 

“Long have we awaited you,” said a woman beside him, clad in rose and silver.  The breast she had left bare in the Qartheen fashion was as perfect as a breast could be.

 

“We knew you were coming to us,” the wizard king said.  “A thousand years ago we knew, and have been waiting all this time.  We sent the comet to show you the way.”

 

She took a step forward.  But then Drogon leapt from her shoulder.  He flew to the top of the ebony-and-weirwood door, perched there, and began to bite at the carved wood.

 

The Undying Ones are trying to impress Daenerys.  Maybe they know of the Azor Ahai prophecy.  

 

Quote

“Mother of dragons, child of three.  Three heads has the dragon.  Mother of dragons.  Child of storm.”

Mother of Dragons is self-explanatory.  Child of Three means she is the descendant of the three founders of House Targaryen:  Visenya, Aegon, and Rhaenys.  The subtle meaning is the importance of this number to Daenerys.  Three heads has the dragon emphasizes her Targaryen heritage.  The heads were Visenya, Aegon, and Rhaenys.  The Targaryen banner is a three-headed dragon.  Child of Storm means she is Daenerys Stormborn, born on Dragonstone during the fierce storm.  We can be 100% sure of Daenerys Targaryen’s identity.  She is indeed Princess Daenerys of House Targaryen, daughter of King Aerys II and Queen Rhaella. 


 

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“Three fires must you light.  One for life, one for death, and one to love.”


 

Fire has three meanings:  Funeral, execution, and rebirth. (Only death can pay for life.  Necromancy at work)

 

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“Three mounts must you ride.  One to bed, one to dread, and one to love.”

 

Mount has three meanings:  Ride, husband, and child.


 

Quote

 

“Three treasons will you know.  One for blood, one for gold, and one for love.”


 

Treason has three meanings:  Betrayal, death of husband, and death of child.

 

Quote

“Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth.  A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.  Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name.  Mother of dragons, daughter of death.”

 

She is the “daughter of death” because it took the deaths of these men to open the doors for her to inherit the right to rule.  Their deaths helped shaped who she is.  The deaths of Viserys and Rhaegar gave her The Seven Kingdoms.  The death of Rhaego made room for her to eventually become the dragon who will mount the world.  This is possibly related to her becoming Mhysa.  

 

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“Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.  A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.  From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.  Mother of dragons, slayer of lies.”


 

Quote

 

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.  A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.  A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.  Mother of dragons, bride of fire.”


 

1.       The Three Mounts

 

A.      Silver-Drogo-Rhaego

B.       Drogon-Victarion-Child (Vic will get her pregnant.  His gift of the horn will allow her to bond all three dragons to her.  In a sense, he will give her the wind)

C.       ? - ? - ?

 

2.       The Treasons

 

 

A.      For blood.  Blood means for revenge.  Mirri Maz Duur murdered Drogo and Rhaego.

B.       For Gold. Gold means for greed.  For wealth.  The dusky woman will murder Vic and their child.  Perhaps the DW is a faceless woman who got paid to murder Victarion. 

C.       For Love.  This usually means jealousy.  Somebody will murder husband #3 out of jealousy.

 

3.       The Three Fires

 

 

A.      Drogo’s funeral.  MMD’s execution.  Rebirth of the dragons.  Rebirth of Azor Ahai.  This is the first fulfillment of her role as the Slayer of Lies.  She is Azor Ahai.  She walks out of the flames.  Stannis, the false Azor Ahai, is revealed.  Melisandre is the liar.

B.       Vic’s funeral.  Probably at sea.  Dusky woman’s execution.  Rebirth of House Targaryen.  She will rain dragonfire on Euron’s Iron Fleet, thus proving she is a Targaryen.  This is how her ancestors took care of the Ironborn.  They burned Black Harren.  This also slays the second lie, that of the Mummer’s dragon.  Aegon, the false Targaryen, is revealed.  Varys is the liar. 

C.       Funeral of third husband.  Execution of the third betrayer.  Rebirth of somebody that Daenerys will come to love.  Perhaps the rebirth of the third husband.  The third lie will be uncovered.  Somebody will try to present a false dragon.  Melisandre and Varys will be exposed in A and B.  I don’t know who the third liar will be.  There are two possibilities for the false dragon.  Darkstar and Jon Snow.  If you can think of another, please let me know. 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Aline! My take on this prophecy is a bit different.

We have witnessed the first line of each triad: the mount to bed (the silver or Khal Drogo), the treason for blood (Mirri Maz Duur), and the fire for life (the funeral pyre that made possible the birth of her dragons).

Those three events are related to each other, and I believe it's possible that there will be a similar correlation among the other elements. I mean that the rest of the prophecy could be divided as follows:

Mount to dread - fire for death - treason for gold

And

Mount to love - fire to love - treason for love

I don't think that the other two fires will be for funerals. She will probably ride the "mount to dread" (Drogon) to light the "fire for death" (meaning that she will kill somebody with that fire), and a "treason for gold" will be involved.

My opinion is that this will happen in Vaes Dothrak, where she will unite all the Khalasar and reveal herself as the stallion that mounts the world. I believe this because of another vision Dany has in the House of the Undying Ones:

Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

As regards the mount to love, the fire to love and the treason for love, I think it's all related to Jon Snow. In the HOTU Daenerys has the vision of the blue flower growing in a wall of ice (this surely refers to Jon), and that vision is followed by the line 

Mother of dragons, bride of fire

that suggests a marriage, or at least a love story, between Jon and her. So Jon is the mount to love; I have no idea of what the treason and the fire for/to love will be, but I suspect that Jon will be somehow involved.

Ps.: this is my first post, please go easy on me :)

 

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6 hours ago, Sierra Esteban said:

The 3rd treason will involve Jon Snow.  She will roast him for treason.  Melting the ice, so to speak, and thus bring back the light and the warmth to the land.  

It could be! Or she will burn herself, maybe taking the role of a modern Nissa Nissa. As regards the treason, it could involve Jon or possibly even Tyrion...

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The pattern of threes remain intact.  Drogo, husband 2, and husband 3 will all die as a result of the treasons.  There will be three different mounts.  We have two so far, horse and dragon.  Is the third going to be an ice spider?  Interesting to think about.  

 

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I think I've graduated from hatred to loathing of prophecy, but that's not to say you haven't made some interesting assertions here.   Please bear in mind, my divining ability really sucks, so I take the solve the mystery track with everything I can.   That said, you could be completely 100% correct with your assumptions @Aline de Gavrillac.  

The warlocks do indeed want to impress Dany...with fear to the ultimate goal of imprisonment.  Can their predictions even be trusted?  Maybe.  Then again there is that creepy shadowbinder who warns Dany away from every character who could actually help her.  Can those predictions or insights be trusted?  I digress but only because prophecy is sooooooo slippery.  The warlocks want to bind Dany and her baby dragons to their particular brand of magic, which may or may not be the opposite of Weiwood magic.  I presume they believe her magic could make their magic greater, stronger, better, faster.   Awesome, but to what end really?  What do they actually do?  Sit around and get high all day and night as far as I can tell.   Do the warlocks do anything other than creep folks out?  In that they were interesting enough to elicit Euron's captivity and torture, surely they do something.   

I used the word "bind" above because I was waxing a little LOTR One Ring there for a minute, but I'm now reminded of the Dragonbinder.   Hrm.   OK, binding dragons is a thing.  It's clear what the Valyrians did with them and wasn't that simply spectacular?   Is that what the warlocks want--total world dominion?  Bigger Shade of the Evening parties?   What?  OK so they have some sort of odd or unusual power, but Dany showed them pretty decisively and quickly that her power is better than theirs.   Again, what?   Why show someone possible futures if your ultimate goal is to imprison them to promote your unholy goals anyway?  

Given that Dany is an expat living her misery out in Essos, is it possible she really is set apart from the magic of Essos and their dumbfounding prophecy?   Everything she does is intended to get her closer to home in her mind.   Are the warlocks and Quaithe's predictions and murky prophecy just a way to keep her tethered to Essos so that they may know their previous glorious reign of terror?   Dany assimilates pretty well given her age and experience every where she goes, but she still just wants to go home.   She doesn't really care about Essos--it's not her place.   Couldn't these prophecies simply be possible ends unless she takes her own fate into her own hands?   Is personal agency why creepy Quaithe finally just tells her to remember who she is in the end?   

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This has to be my favorite chapter in Clash.   I reread this many times.  It was so good.   The three husbands are Drogo, Victarion, and Jon Snow. 

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One thing I notice in the OP and throughout the thread is something missing in the hubby count regardless of prophecy and theorizing:  Dany has a husband #2 named Hizdahr, or The Hiz, for short.  He's not mentioned, so far, in any of the posts that are counting up husbands and possible husbands, live or dead.  Since The Hiz is her husband at the present time, and still living, he should be considered and counted in the prophecy scenarios.  I also cannot imagine a scenario in which Dany marries Victarion, minus mind control, LOL  I don't care how many ships, how many horns, and how many Dusky Women Vic has up his burnt sleeve, I cannot see Dany marrying him, much less ever becoming pregnant by him, much less ever willingly having sex with him. 

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I don’t get how people only see the word “Bride” but completely miss the “of Fire” part. Fire =/= men. She’s the Bride of Fire and part of some big destiny along the lines of Azor Ahai, the Last Hero, the KG, the NW, maesters, sorcerers, etc. When you do big things in this series, you give things up.

Bride of Fire isn’t who she’ll marry. It’s what she’ll have to give up as Bride of Fire to achieve her destiny.

And I’ll add, the idea that a woman, especially a teenager, getting a list of men she must f*** as part of her prophesy is beyond sexist. Somehow I think that a man getting the same treatment wouldn’t get a list of his gf and/or wives. If she's really such a big deal, this interpretation of fire = men she must marry completely undermines that. :bang:

We already had a teenage girl ask for who she'd marry in a prophesy and that was Cersei and Maggy the Frog. Dany's not at that level and Cersei asking that was a marker of her immaturity, ambition, and selfishness. Cersei constantly complains about being overlooked for being a woman, just someone to be pawned off and be a brood mare and her arc is about overcoming this. Flinging this onto Dany with the common Bride of Fire Men interpretation makes no sense.

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In my opinion, those three mounts are Dany's three husbands - Drogo, Hizdahr, and Jon Snow. And also those three marriages are devided into three periods of Dany's life - red/Red Waste, yellow/Meereen seized by Yuunkai (even Dany's marriage was orchestrated by them), and green/something in Westeros, either the God's Eye and its green men, or Green Fork river. Sort of Ready Set Go / Red Yellow Green ^_^

48 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

I don’t get how people only see the word “Bride” but completely miss the “of Fire” part. Fire =/= men. She’s the Bride of Fire

Jon is son of Rhaegar Targaryen, thus he is the last dragon. Dragons are fire made flesh. R'hllor is a fire god, thus dragons are his creations. Azor Ahai is the chapmion of R'hllor. Add all of that together - Jon is a living fire. Dany is bride of fire, i.e. she is Jon's bride.

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2 minutes ago, Megorova said:

 

Jon is son of Rhaegar Targaryen, thus he is the last dragon. Dragons are fire made flesh. R'hllor is a fire god, thus dragons are his creations. Azor Ahai is the chapmion of R'hllor. Add all of that together - Jon is a living fire. Dany is bride of fire, i.e. she is Jon's bride.

If the last husband of Jon is only one relevant to Mother of Dragons, Bride of Fire, then you have to do the same with Slayer of Lies, Daughter of Death, etc. Doesn't work.

And it's still freakin' sexist which GRRM calls out with Cersei so he's well aware that this is freakin' sexist.

 

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24 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Jon is son of Rhaegar Targaryen, thus he is the last dragon. Dragons are fire made flesh. R'hllor is a fire god, thus dragons are his creations. Azor Ahai is the chapmion of R'hllor. Add all of that together - Jon is a living fire. Dany is bride of fire, i.e. she is Jon's bride.

1

And the opposite births shadows, a la Melisandre.  Do shadows exist without light? 

 

 

On 9/23/2018 at 12:07 PM, Sierra Esteban said:

The 3rd treason will involve Jon Snow.  She will roast him for treason.  Melting the ice, so to speak, and thus bring back the light and the warmth to the land.  

Couldn't the 3rd treason be committed by Dany against herself or another Targaryen?

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1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

I don’t get how people only see the word “Bride” but completely miss the “of Fire” part. Fire =/= men. She’s the Bride of Fire and part of some big destiny along the lines of Azor Ahai, the Last Hero, the KG, the NW, maesters, sorcerers, etc. When you do big things in this series, you give things up.

 

Bride of Fire isn’t who she’ll marry. It’s what she’ll have to give up as Bride of Fire to achieve her destiny.

 

And I’ll add, the idea that a woman, especially a teenager, getting a list of men she must f*** as part of her prophesy is beyond sexist. Somehow I think that a man getting the same treatment wouldn’t get a list of his gf and/or wives. If she's really such a big deal, this interpretation of fire = men she must marry completely undermines that. :bang:

 

 

 

We already had a teenage girl ask for who she'd marry in a prophesy and that was Cersei and Maggy the Frog. Dany's not at that level and Cersei asking that was a marker of her immaturity, ambition, and selfishness. Cersei constantly complains about being overlooked for being a woman, just someone to be pawned off and be a brood mare and her arc is about overcoming this. Flinging this onto Dany with the common Bride of Fire Men interpretation makes no sense.

. . . mother of dragons . . . child of three . . . three heads has the dragon

. . . mother of dragons . . . child of storm . . .

. . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . .

. . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . .

. . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

 

Considered with the other titles the Undying give her I think the bride of fire reference is simply a reference to how Danaerys will bring about change when she invades Westeros and/or battles the Others:  Conflagration.

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

In my opinion, those three mounts are Dany's three husbands - Drogo, Hizdahr, and Jon Snow. And also those three marriages are devided into three periods of Dany's life - red/Red Waste, yellow/Meereen seized by Yuunkai (even Dany's marriage was orchestrated by them), and green/something in Westeros, either the God's Eye and its green men, or Green Fork river. Sort of Ready Set Go / Red Yellow Green ^_^

Jon is son of Rhaegar Targaryen, thus he is the last dragon. Dragons are fire made flesh. R'hllor is a fire god, thus dragons are his creations. Azor Ahai is the chapmion of R'hllor. Add all of that together - Jon is a living fire. Dany is bride of fire, i.e. she is Jon's bride.

It has never been proven that Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen.  Jon is not living fire.  He is ice if anything.  

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7 hours ago, Lollygag said:

And I’ll add, the idea that a woman, especially a teenager, getting a list of men she must f*** as part of her prophesy is beyond sexist. Somehow I think that a man getting the same treatment wouldn’t get a list of his gf and/or wives.

I don't really see it as sexist. In the HOTU Dany receives one prophecy (three mounts, three fires, three treason), all the rest are visions of what happened, what is yet to come, and what could have happened if things went differently (es.: Rhaego).

I don't see the visions related to her marriages as something that is telling her she has to marry, but purely as a prediction of the future.

We know that Daenerys, unlike Cersei, doesn't let prophecies guide her life. She was sold to Drogo (well before the prophecy), but then it was her who chose to marry Hizdahr, and I'm pretty sure she'll marry Jon for love.

6 hours ago, alostsister said:

Couldn't the 3rd treason be committed by Dany against herself or another Targaryen?

I agree. Three treason will you know, the prophecy says. It could well be that she'll commit one treason or more.

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On 9/23/2018 at 12:07 PM, Sierra Esteban said:

The 3rd treason will involve Jon Snow.  She will roast him for treason.  Melting the ice, so to speak, and thus bring back the light and the warmth to the land.  

This is what I think.  Jon has a history of betrayal.  He betrayed the wildlings and the watch.  The third will be his last. 

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6 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Considered with the other titles the Undying give her I think the bride of fire reference is simply a reference to how Danaerys will bring about change when she invades Westeros and/or battles the Others:  Conflagration.

Bride of Fire is like a nun being married to the church.  They will have no other husband.  For Daenerys, this means she will never have a husband who will live.  All of her husbands will die.  She will be married to her cause.  It pairs nicely with Mother of Dragons.  The fires that she lighted and will light do serve the purpose of funeral, execution, and birth.  The dragons are her children with fire.  Something will be born each time Daenerys and fire get together.  I would not rule out a giant kraken if this fire ceremony were to take place on a ship in the middle of the ocean.  The one to love is almost definitely a son to continue the Targaryen line. 

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2 hours ago, LadyOlenna said:

I don't really see it as sexist. In the HOTU Dany receives one prophecy (three mounts, three fires, three treason), all the rest are visions of what happened, what is yet to come, and what could have happened if things went differently (es.: Rhaego).

I don't see the visions related to her marriages as something that is telling her she has to marry, but purely as a prediction of the future.

We know that Daenerys, unlike Cersei, doesn't let prophecies guide her life. She was sold to Drogo (well before the prophecy), but then it was her who chose to marry Hizdahr, and I'm pretty sure she'll marry Jon for love.

I'm not sure where this idea comes from that if the Undying interpretation doesn't equate to Jon, that somehow means Dany/Jon will never, never happen.

No, the Undying aren't handing out random predictions like a carnival fortune teller and the books aren't being written so carelessly. That makes it sound like telling Dany who she'll marry because, you know, don't silly teenage girls like that sort of thing? That's some AGOT Sansa level silly. Or maybe they're telling her that because she's not really that big a deal and she needs to screw/marry her way to her destiny. Or maybe there's another explanation better than both of these....

Would Jon get a list of women he will marry starting with Ygritte, then Mel/Alys/Val/Satin or whomever he's been checking out lately, and then another to follow? No. That would be weird because he's a guy. GRRM calls this out as bs in Cersei's arc so this isn't what he's doing with Dany.

And "fire" and "men" still aren't interchangeable things.

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2 hours ago, Lollygag said:

And "fire" and "men" still aren't interchangeable things.

Ser. Barristan uses "fire" as a metaphor to describe Daario like he uses "mud" to describe Quentyn.

I have to agree with Barristan on two counts. 1) Daenerys is in love with Daario 2) Daario is "fire" where Quentyn was "mud." I believe when Dany gets back from the Dothraki Sea she'll be far less amiable and say screw it and marry Daario(fire) the "one to love"making her the Bride of fire. The prophecy will then be complete and Dany will come to Westeros with a husband so she can't and won't marry (f)Aegon in an effort to achieve peace like she did with Hizdahr in Meereen.

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1 hour ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

 

Ser. Barristan uses "fire" as a metaphor to describe Daario like he uses "mud" to describe Quentyn.

I have to agree with Barristan on two counts. 1) Daenerys is in love with Daario 2) Daario is "fire" where Quentyn was "mud." I believe when Dany gets back from the Dothraki Sea she'll be far less amiable and say screw it and marry Daario(fire) the "one to love"making her the Bride of fire. The prophecy will then be complete and Dany will come to Westeros with a husband so she can't and won't marry (f)Aegon in an effort to achieve peace like she did with Hizdahr in Meereen.

Maybe Dany marries Daario. We'll see.

But the Undying didn’t mean flaky, gold-toothed, naked lady dagger carrying db’s when they said Bride of Fire. And Slayer of Lies applies to all three. So does Daughter of Death. So must Bride of Fire.

 

Barristan explains what he means by fire and it’s not what the Undying mean. He is pointing out that Dany has yet to outgrow her equivalent of her boy band crush phase which makes sense given her age. It reminds me of the saying “Men like you are the reason why accountants have beautiful wives.” He’s dissing Daario and pointing out that Dany has some growing up to do yet, and he’s right. Daario is the exciting fire guy you later regret who gives you a new appreciation for stable mud.

Jaime compares Brandon Stark to fire too. When Catelyn sees Ned the first time, she sees mud. But she learns to appreciate mud/Ned over the fire that Brandon promised.

ADWD The Discarded Knight

You could make a poultice out of mud to cool a fever. You could plant seeds in mud and grow a crop to feed your children. Mud would nourish you, where fire would only consume you, but fools and children and young girls would choose fire every time. 

Bride of Fire and bride of a string of dudes still aren't interchangeable things :P

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