Exile from Valyria, why?

[Barbrey Dustin]

38 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Owning dragons doesn't mean they are land owners though i thought. So i guess maybe that is a sign they were fairly well off? Being land owners and dragon riders. 

And if the Lannisters packed their bags from Westeros and left, do you think any one in Westeros would care and call them cowards? Or throw a party and go jack their left overs?  Now throwing in the dragons and all it's still odd. Why were the Valyrians so avid about keeping all the dragon lords there in Valyria? More power there? For some reason they have to? Its not like any one family got to rule it and it was the grand prize like the Iron Throne. 

Why not just say your going to Westeros to act as archon to Westeros as you want it to be a new Valyrian Colony? 

 

 

 

They were much more than well off.  They were one of the forty ruling families of Valyria.  

[Tai Pan]

On 9/25/2018 at 8:03 PM, Lord Varys said:

We do know it was a self-imposed exile due to Daenys' dream. They sold their property and left, and that may have entailed the caveat of them losing the right to come back to Valyria. There is no indication that the ruling faction(s) Valyria actually exiled them.

 

This.  They had the benefit of warning.

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Really? Would they?

Your right, of course they would not.

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

So risk dragon fire and war, or except them as over lords long as they allow you to rule your selves? I think it's quite possible 

It is actually part of the story. You see, there was this guy from Dragonstone. He wasn't much of anybody, except he had a dream, a pair of sisters he had sex with and dragons.  His name was Aegon. He offered, quite nicely really, self rule for all of the kingdoms as long as they swore fealty to him as king. They all said yes, and then shenanigans and hilarity ensued and everybody was happy in the end. And now he is known as Aegon the self rule facilitator and consensus builder. I can't believe you haven't read about him in the first book, you know, Game of Representational Seats and Their Electorate.

 

[AlaskanSandman]

1 hour ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

I wonder if the Targaryens already owned Dragonstone or if they had to buy it from the other dragonlords before they left.

Well that is interesting. We know Valyria was holding it, so wasn't some body already there? Did the Targaryen's kick them out? Did they buy them out?

[AlaskanSandman]

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I am curious why you continually try to discuss TWOIAF  tidbits in this forum.  The information in TWOIAF is out of the realm of ASOIAF.

Perhaps you would or could explain how TWOIAF impacts ASOIAF.

 

I cant laugh and be confused at once so im just picking laughing. Its the history of Asoiaf, of course it's relevant and worth bring up things from that book lol 

[AlaskanSandman]

8 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Your right, of course they would not.

It is actually part of the story. You see, there was this guy from Dragonstone. He wasn't much of anybody, except he had a dream, a pair of sisters he had sex with and dragons.  His name was Aegon. He offered, quite nicely really, self rule for all of the kingdoms as long as they swore fealty to him as king. They all said yes, and then shenanigans and hilarity ensued and everybody was happy in the end. And now he is known as Aegon the self rule facilitator and consensus builder. I can't believe you haven't read about him in the first book, you know, Game of Representational Seats and Their Electorate.

 

Lol that's not the same at all. Aegon isn't allowing them to rule them selves, he's not even ruling as an Archon would. He is flat out coming in, uniting kingdoms that hate each other, so he can rule directly over them as a united kingdom. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Lol that's not the same at all. Aegon isn't allowing them to rule them selves, he's not even ruling as an Archon would. He is flat out coming in, uniting kingdoms that hate each other, so he can rule directly over them as a united kingdom. 

Not true. The north bent the knee and they pretty much rule themselves

[AlaskanSandman]

Just now, Dorian Martell's son said:

Not true. The north bent the knee and they pretty much rule themselves

That's only the North though. What about all the southern kingdoms expected to put aside thousands of years of feuds and enmity? Loss of lands, and Houses, loss of power and authority. Having to pay taxes upwards to some one else. 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

9 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Well that is interesting. We know Valyria was holding it, so wasn't some body already there? Did the Targaryen's kick them out? Did they buy them out?

If I had to venture a guess they bought or traded for Dragonstone with whatever holdings they had in Valyria before they left. That or they had to pay the other dragonlords in Valyria some sort of yearly rent to live at Dragonstone. I feel like if they just showed up at Dragonstone and kicked out who was ever holding it for Valyria it would have a caused a conflict with Valyria that the Targaryens knew they couldn't win.

[AlaskanSandman]

5 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

If I had to venture a guess they bought or traded for Dragonstone with whatever holdings they had in Valyria before they left. That or they had to pay the other dragonlords in Valyria some sort of yearly rent to live at Dragonstone. I feel like if they just showed up at Dragonstone and kicked out who was ever holding it for Valyria it would have a caused a conflict with Valyria that the Targaryens knew they couldn't win.

Thats interesting. I've always been curious about House Velaryon who arrived before House Targaryen. Their place before Hightide was a danky place. Why go there when you could have Dragonstone? Or is it reserved for Dragon families only?

[AlaskanSandman]

19 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Not true. The north bent the knee and they pretty much rule themselves

Would you say Pentos feel's it rules itself, or do the Dothraki? This is the same set up Westeros may have had with the Valyrians

[White Ravens]

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I am curious why you continually try to discuss TWOIAF  tidbits in this forum.  The information in TWOIAF is out of the realm of ASOIAF.

Perhaps you would or could explain how TWOIAF impacts ASOIAF.

 

 

18 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I cant laugh and be confused at once so im just picking laughing. Its the history of Asoiaf, of course it's relevant and worth bring up things from that book lol 

@AlaskanSandman Apologies if my memory is wrong, but haven't you in previous discussions argued that the content of the TWoI&F is not canon because it was written by maesters who are deliberately building a false history and narrative to better fit with their goal of eliminating magic? 

[Dorian Martell's son]

20 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

That's only the North though. What about all the southern kingdoms expected to put aside thousands of years of feuds and enmity? Loss of lands, and Houses, loss of power and authority. Having to pay taxes upwards to some one else. 

Again, reread the books. The vale joined willingly. So did the riverlands. as soon as the Ironborn overlords were killed.  

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, White Ravens said:

 

@AlaskanSandman Apologies if my memory is wrong, but haven't you in previous discussions argued that the content of the TWoI&F is not canon because it was written by maesters who are deliberately building a false history and narrative to better fit with their goal of eliminating magic? 

Lmao, no, that' not what i've said. TWOIAF is written by Maesters, so it's biased in sections or just leaves out information. That doesnt mean that the entire book is a lie and fabrication. Even if the over all narrative was mostly a lie ( like say they were bending the lengths of time and leaving out known dragon involvement in Westeros before the Targaryens, or what ever.) there would still be kernals of truth with in it. 

So things with the TWOIAF can be argued for or against depending on if there is supporting evidence else where, like in ASOIAF.  

If you wanna act like TWOIAF is absolutely telling the truth on all things, like Robert's Rebellion or what ever, that's on you and your pov. Not every body has to share the same belief in the Maester's accounts.

[Dorian Martell's son]

6 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Would you say Pentos feel's it rules itself, or do the Dothraki? This is the same set up Westeros may have had with the Valyrians

No, those two rule themselves because the freehold is gone.

[AlaskanSandman]

3 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Again, reread the books. The vale joined willingly. So did the riverlands. as soon as the Ironborn overlords were killed.  

What? So Visenya's threat of riding Ronnel around on her dragon was nothing? Really??

They had dragons, and were actually threatening to use them for conquest, this is way different

[AlaskanSandman]

5 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

No, those two rule themselves because the freehold is gone.

Lol its a comparison. The Dothraki make every one pay them tribute as the dominant ruler, or they'll sack your city. Pentos in no way could defend it self from the Dothraki either.  Yet the Pentoshi would say they rule them selves, not the Dothraki over lords who will burn down their cities and enslave their people. 

Same for Westeros, except, now you have dragons' in the equation. 

[White Ravens]

7 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Lmao, no, that' not what i've said. TWOIAF is written by Maesters, so it's biased in sections or just leaves out information. That doesnt mean that the entire book is a lie and fabrication. Even if the over all narrative was mostly a lie ( like say they were bending the lengths of time and leaving out known dragon involvement in Westeros before the Targaryens, or what ever.) there would still be kernals of truth with in it. 

So things with the TWOIAF can be argued for or against depending on if there is supporting evidence else where, like in ASOIAF.  

If you wanna act like TWOIAF is absolutely telling the truth on all things, like Robert's Rebellion or what ever, that's on you and your pov. Not every body has to share the same belief in the Maester's accounts.

Lol, so some parts of TWOIAF are genuine and accurate but other parts are biased misdirection?  I would like a guide for finding the kernels of truth. 

[AlaskanSandman]

5 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Lol, so some parts of TWOIAF are genuine and accurate but other parts are biased misdirection?  I would like a guide for finding the kernels of truth. 

Try using your own brain, no one is obligated to draw up a list for you of all the things they think Yandel is telling wrong through ignorance or intention. 

Yandel doesn't know many things about when Eddard was executed. And some he wouldn't include even if he did know. Like accusations that Joffery is the child of Jamie and Cersei, not Robert. 

Or accounts of the deaths of Rhaegar's children. 

All of which we have counter information for with in Asoiaf. 

Edit- Aside from using your own deductive reasoning, you can also gleen some things on the threads too. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

12 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

What? So Visenya's threat of riding Ronnel around on her dragon was nothing? Really??

They had dragons, and were actually threatening to use them for conquest, this is way different

how do you think the Valyrians got things done? Nice words? A trip a whorehouse?