FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

[Jaak]

3 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said:

Torrhen Stark put his people first. Seriously, f*** the Yellow Toad. 

The significant part here is not that Yellow Toad chose to be stupid, but that she avoided the fate of Argella and Marla.

Do we get more details of Queen Argella?

[The Grey Wolf]

16 minutes ago, Jaak said:

The significant part here is not that Yellow Toad chose to be stupid, but that she avoided the fate of Argella and Marla.

Do we get more details of Queen Argella?

We get nothing new about Argella.

[zionius]

I compared the kindle US/UK versions, the only difference is in The Dying of the Dragons—Rhaenyra Triumphant, "provenance" is misspelled as "provenence" in the UK version.

As for Sons of the Dragon, besides a few more discussions of the characters and hundreds of wording/logic edits, there're a few nontrivial changes compared with the Book of Swords version, most should be bug fix: 

• He proposed a different bride for Maegor: Ceryse Hightower, maiden daughter to the Lord of Oldtown (and the High Septon’s own niece). 
• His High Holiness proposed a different bride for Maegor: his own niece, Ceryse Hightower, maiden daughter to the Lord of Oldtown, Manfred Hightower (not to be confused with his grandsire of the same name).

 

• Blackfyre was burned with the king, but retrieved by Aenys afterward, its blade darker but elsewise unharmed.

• Blackfyre was burned with the king, but retrieved by Maegor afterward, its blade darker but elsewise unharmed.

 

 

• Three days before they were to sail, two Poor Fellows scaled the manse’s walls and broke into the king’s bedchamber. Only the timely intervention of Ser Raymont Baratheon of the Kingsguard saved Aenys from death.
• Three days before they were to sail, two Poor Fellows scaled the manse’s walls and broke into the king’s bedchamber. Only the timely intervention of the Kingsguard saved Aenys from an ignoble death. (Raymont is never mentioned in F&B, not sure why.)

 

• An envoy from the Iron Bank of Braavos, sent to Oldtown to treat with Lord Hightower, wrote to the bank to say that the High Septon was “the true king of Westeros, in all but name.”
• An envoy from the Iron Bank of Braavos, sent to Oldtown to treat with Martyn Hightower, the new Lord of the Hightower and voice of Oldtown (his father, Lord Manfred, having died a few moons earlier), wrote home to say that the High Septon was “the true king of Westeros, in all but name.”

 

• The Dowager Queen mounted Vhagar and brought fire and blood to the Reach as once she had to Dorne. In a single night, the seats of House Blanetree, House Terrick, House Deddings, House Lychester, and House Wayn were set aflame. Then Maegor himself took wing, flying Balerion to the westerlands, where he burned the castles of the Broomes, the Falwells, the Lorches, the Myatts, and the other “pious lords” who had defied his royal summons.
• The Dowager Queen mounted Vhagar and brought fire and blood to the riverlands as once she had to Dorne. In a single night, the seats of House Blanetree, House Terrick, House Deddings, House Lychester, and House Wayn were set aflame. Then Maegor himself took wing, flying Balerion to the westerlands, where he burned the castles of the Broomes, the Falwells, the Lorches, and the other “pious lords” who had defied his summons.

 

• Amongst the dead were Lord Alyn Tarbeck, Denys Snow, the Bastard of Barrowton, Lord Jon Piper, Lord Ronnel Vance, Ser Willam Whistler…and Aegon Targaryen, Prince of Dragonstone.
• Amongst the dead were Lord Alyn Tarbeck, Denys Snow the Bastard of Barrowton, Lord Ronnel Vance, Ser Willam Whistler, Melony Piper and three of her brothers … and the Prince of Dragonstone, Aegon the Uncrowned of House Targaryen.

 

 

• Old Lord Merryweather was the next to die, followed by Lord Rowan’s son and heir, Davos Darklyn’s aged father, even Blind John Hogg.
• Old Lord Merryweather was the next to die, followed by Lord Peake’s son and heir, Davos Darklyn’s aged father, even Blind Jon Hogg.

 

• Harrenhal passed to his eldest son, though its domains were much diminished, as the king granted Lord Harroway’s Town to Lord Alton Butterwell, and the rest of the Harroway holdings to Lord Dormand Darry.
• Harrenhal passed to his eldest son, though its domains were much diminished, as the king granted Lord Harroway’s Town to Lord Alton Butterwell, and the rest of the Harroway holdings to Lord Darnold Darry.

Also the errors listed in the errata are all fixed except for Aegon's "iron and ruby" crown.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

3 hours ago, zionius said:

I compared the kindle US/UK versions, the only difference is in The Dying of the Dragons—Rhaenyra Triumphant, "provenance" is misspelled as "provenence" in the UK version.

As for Sons of the Dragon, besides a few more discussions of the characters and hundreds of wording/logic edits, there're a few nontrivial changes compared with the Book of Swords version, most should be bug fix: 

Useful list!

Just out of curiosity: have you ever compared the Dunk and Egg stories from their original publications in the anthologies with A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms?

[zionius]

1 minute ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Useful list!

Just out of curiosity: have you ever compared the Dunk and Egg stories from their original publications in the anthologies with A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms?

Sure, the major ones are listed in this thread: https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/34958-the-asoiaf-wiki-thread/&page=89&tab=comments#comment-8070798

There're scores of other wording/grammer edits, such as were->was, in->by. Some changes are apparently made by editors not that familiar with ASOIAF.  Bennis‘ should of is changed to should've, The Bear and the Maiden Fair is changed to The Bear, The Bear and the Maiden Fair. (Though THK did say TBTBatMF, it's always TBatMF in TSS, TMK and the main series.)

[dsjj251]

On 11/21/2018 at 6:32 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

The cowardly part for me is how the weakest kingdom of all was fighting the Targaryens all on their own, for a generation, defiantly so, while the rest just looked on. Aegon was almost killed in at least two assassination attempts, they succeeded in killing Rhaenys, and Meraxes. And yet the Starks, Arryns, Greyjoys and Lannisters just looked on.

Imagine had the heroic Dornish managed to successfully assassinate Aegon and Visenya, or brought down the other two dragons, these cowards would have been quick to reclaim their sovereignity then. Something that could equally have been achieved if they just manned up and gave Dorne a hand.

An unexpected Stark/Arryn/Ironborn attack on Visenya in Kings Landing while Aegon was burning Dornish castles, or a Lannister funded Faceless man hit on Aegon, and it would all have been over.

But no, the cravens did nothing while Dorne bled alone. Unbowed, unbent, unbroken.

Fire and Blood makes it seem like the Iron Born were busy fighting themselves with multiple people claiming lordship over it . There were at least 2 rebellions in the Vale, both actually threatened The North as Torrhen's daughter was lady of the Vale and presumably killed by the rebels as well as the Sistermen rebelling and raiding the North. Westermen were married off to Rivermen and vice versa. 

The Tyrell's status as Lords Paramount rested entirely on the Targaryen's support , as well as House Hightower belief in the faith and them being right about Aegon. 

Basically, anyone who wanted to rebel was either already fighting a rebellion in their own ranks or had a family member as a hostage a kingdom or 2 away. 

You also have to remember the timeline here. Aegon didnt start his conquest of Dorne till 4 AC, Rheanys didnt die till 10 AC. 

 

That means Aegon wasnt truly seen as vulnerable until 14 years after he landed.  the Riverlands, part of the Reach, Stormlands, and crownlands owed their status to the Targaryens. So even if you forget all the other things, Aegon may have had the largest Army and largest fleet in all of Westeros. 

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

I'm really loving Fire and Blood so far, although I'm a little disappointed that we still know so little about Maegor's wives. With the exception of Rhanea, they're all very vague. How did the Harroways first become involved with Maegor, for instance, and what went in to the decision to make Alys his second queen? What were Elinor and Jeyne's personalities like? Was Maegor cruel to Ceryse in the years before his exile? 

I'm also glad to see more mentions of the Iron Islands. It seems that for all their independence, the Iron Islands get unruly when they're being ignored. Aegon I's many visits to Pyke and Old Wyk probably contributed to their compliance during his reign. 

For a family that's hardly ever mentioned in the main series, the Hightowers certainly caused all sorts of trouble during the Targaryens' reign. 

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I'm really loving Fire and Blood so far, although I'm a little disappointed that we still know so little about Maegor's wives. With the exception of Rhanea, they're all very vague. How did the Harroways first become involved with Maegor, for instance, and what went in to the decision to make Alys his second queen? What were Elinor and Jeyne's personalities like? Was Maegor cruel to Ceryse in the years before his exile? 

That would have been interesting to know, yeah. Also what the hell Jaehaerys and Alysanne and Alyssa did during the 3-4 years they were hiding. References to those years and details about them would have added a lot more substance to the later rivalry and conflict between Rogar, Alyssa, and King Jaehaerys.

Also, it is good to see they no longer flee explicitly by ship, but it is still a tough nut to crack to imagine a ten-year-old Jaehaerys taking his mother along on Vermithor and an eight-year-old Alysanne flying Silverwing behind them.

But that, I think, is the only realistic scenario I can see how they could actually disappear without a trace. Any ship carrying dragons and their riders would have spread rumors all across the world.

One imagines the dragons would have hid in that harbor-cave below Storm's End, but that's just my guess.

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That would have been interesting to know, yeah. Also what the hell Jaehaerys and Alysanne and Alyssa did during the 3-4 years they were hiding. References to those years and details about them would have added a lot more substance to the later rivalry and conflict between Rogar, Alyssa, and King Jaehaerys.

Also, it is good to see they no longer flee explicitly by ship, but it is still a tough nut to crack to imagine a ten-year-old Jaehaerys taking his mother along on Vermithor and an eight-year-old Alysanne flying Silverwing behind them.

But that, I think, is the only realistic scenario I can see how they could actually disappear without a trace. Any ship carrying dragons and their riders would have spread rumors all across the world.

One imagines the dragons would have hid in that harbor-cave below Storm's End, but that's just my guess.

 

I think Maegor's relationship with Ceryse would have added some perspective, as well. The impression I got was that he was always unhinged, but there is the question of whether his injury/Tyanna's magic exasperated his cruelty. There's no mention of him abusing Ceryse prior to then, so I do wonder if Maegor wasn't quite as extreme as a young man. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

On 11/21/2018 at 4:32 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

Imagine had the heroic Dornish managed to successfully assassinate Aegon and Visenya, or brought down the other two dragons, these cowards would have been quick to reclaim their sovereignity then. Something that could equally have been achieved if they just manned up and gave Dorne a hand.

The price for Dornish defiance was steep, I dont think Torrhen wanted to pay it. His sons were willing to though:

“Torrhen’s sons were less glad of the Targaryen yoke, and some among them entertained talk of rebelling, and of raising the Stark banner whether Lord Torrhen consented or not.” - WoIaF

The Stark/Arryn marriage that Rhaenys arranged also pissed them off. Her brothers refusing to attend the wedding could have been another form of quiet rebellion. There does seem to be some hidden contempt there between the lines. I'm also thinking of the fact that Aegon took the crown of the King's of Winter instead of their swords, suggests that they can kneel but rise again with sword in hand like Val/Asha mention in the books.

There's also the Company of the Rose who would rather live in exile in Essos than under Targaryen rule.

I think we will see an uprising against a Targaryen invader in the actual novels with Dany vs. the North, who could be in Dorne's place by the end of the story.  In light of this “hidden” contempt, I don’t believe the Northerners will be willing to accept another Torrhen-like decision the second time around, especially not after Robert’s Rebellion, Robb’s Rebellion, Bolton takeover, and a second rebellion against the crown if Jon is made KitN. The conditions Dany will face will be different than during Torrhen’s time; plus, Torrhen did not have a hidden Targaryen heir in his pocket to challenge Aegon. Arya to go rogue and assassinate Daenerys too, possibly.