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Moondancer

FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

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1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

@Ran, perhaps something to pass on for future editions: Mariah Martell is called Myriah again in the lineages section of the book.

Yes, it was something that they decided to look into again with George one last time. I did not ask him directly, Anne did, and I presume he weighed in and decided he preferred Myriah after all. I'll ask about it to make certain, sometimes things fall through the cracks.

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There's supposed to be "certain houses" that do it, such as the Blackwoods, and "mayhaps" a dozen others. This at the time of Jaehaerys and Alysanne. 

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The Northmen who stayed behind did cause somewhat of a revival of the old gods south of the neck but how long that lasted isn't clear.  But it stands to region at least some of their kids probably followed their fathers faith, so perhaps worship of the seven is less confided to whole houses believing but just individuals maybe some descended from children the men from the North had with the women of the Riverlands.

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50 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

So no names on them then. Not even regions?

Nope. Originally he tried, but ... well, there were issues with most of the houses he named (don't ask, I'm not going to say). Linda and I have since provided a list of houses which have never been associated with the Faith, particularly noting those with explicit origins among the First Men, if he ever wants to make a point of naming a few in the novels or F&B v2 or whatever.

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2 hours ago, Ran said:

Nope. Originally he tried, but ... well, there were issues with most of the houses he named (don't ask, I'm not going to say). Linda and I have since provided a list of houses which have never been associated with the Faith, particularly noting those with explicit origins among the First Men, if he ever wants to make a point of naming a few in the novels or F&B v2 or whatever.

Well, if we go by regions I'd actually look for such houses not so much in the Riverlands anymore, but in certain more rural areas of the Stormlands and the West. Considering the ire of the Andals in the Vale chances are about zero that there any there, outside the mountains. Having such houses in the Reach would come as a surprise, but the Three Singers were, too, so one never knows.

Those Rogers guys from the Stormlands one of which married a Stark could be one of them, perhaps?

By the way - did you and Linda have anything to do with the change of 'her lord father' to 'her grandfather' in the section on Alyssa Velaryon's ancestry? This is pretty huge considering it actually confirms that Daemon Velaryon was not only Alyssa's grandfather and the father of Aethan and Corlys, but also one Aegon's best friend. I'm pretty sure somebody must have asked George about that to make a change there...

And damn - that stuff about Boremund being Laenor's great-uncle and great-great-uncle is still in there. Sometimes one really wishes those blasted Baratheons had just one neck so one could throttle them all... ;-). 

Do you know whether they will amend that and other things like the Olyver/Royce issue (there are even typos left, I caught a 'brethen' and a certain guy named 'Munken'...) in later prints?

And was the issue about the two Lords Tarly - Lord Alan Tarly fighting at the Battle of the Honeywine, and Lord Donald Tarly, the father of Lady Sam - ever double-checked? These two are not supposed to be the same guys, are they?

4 hours ago, Ran said:

Yes, it was something that they decided to look into again with George one last time. I did not ask him directly, Anne did, and I presume he weighed in and decided he preferred Myriah after all. I'll ask about it to make certain, sometimes things fall through the cracks.

Now I feel really great that we stuck with Myriah as established lore for the German edition of TWo IaF ;-).

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After reading about the Dornish in Fire and Blood book all i can say I joined the camp of Remove Turtles. Slavers, Dorne are slavers and pure monsters , at least until joining the 7 kingdoms.

 

EDIT

And im dissapointed that we didn't get anything about pre Doom Valyria. We know nothing about pre Doom Valyria except generalities.

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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

And was the issue about the two Lords Tarly - Lord Alan Tarly fighting at the Battle of the Honeywine, and Lord Donald Tarly, the father of Lady Sam - ever double-checked? These two are not supposed to be the same guys, are they?

Since Samantha was two years older than Lyonel (who was 15 at his father's death in 130 AC and thus born in 114 or 115), Alan could be an older brother of her with Donald having died some time ago.

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5 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Since Samantha was two years older than Lyonel (who was 15 at his father's death in 130 AC and thus born in 114 or 115), Alan could be an older brother of her with Donald having died some time ago.

Sure, but it would be good to know that this wasn't an error ;-).

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Reading so much Targ detail hasn’t made me like them any more, that’s for sure. In fact, they really are a bunch of freaks, imposing their will on Westeros purely thanks to having Dragons. Jahaerys’s paranoia about anyone else getting hold of dragon’s eggs is cute in that light. He clearly wants a monopoly on being able to dominate others for no other reason other than having big, ugly fire breathing lizards.

Absolutely loved how the Sealord of Braavos told him to bugger off with his threats, and casually mentioned that the Faceless Men could take out the Targs  anytime Braavos chose to do so.

Reading through Aegon’s struggles against the Dornish, it absolutely boggles my mind that the Arryns, Lannisters,  Starks and Ironborn didn’t rise up at the same time. Particularly after Meraxes was killed. There is simply no way Aegon could have quelled them all.

And between the lot of them, surely they could afford two Faceless men to get rid of Aegon and Visenya and end the invasion of incestuous silver haired freaks once and for all.

As for Dorne: Massive new respect for them, and disdain for the bunch of cowards in the rest of Westeros. And that goes for you too Torrhen “kneelers knees” Stark.

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2 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Reading so much Targ detail hasn’t made me like them any more, that’s for sure. In fact, they really are a bunch of freaks, imposing their will on Westeros purely thanks to having Dragons. Jahaerys’s paranoia about anyone else getting hold of dragon’s eggs is cute in that light. He clearly wants a monopoly on being able to dominate others for no other reason other than having big, ugly fire breathing lizards.

They are not different from any other royal family putting the nobility in their place and winning the favor of the commoners who they free from the yoke of the local lords. Anyone having dragons - or nukes - would do the same. As they do in our world ;-).

Perhaps it works better if you pretend they are all Starks with huge flying direwolves ;-)? In the end they are just a fictional royal dynasty. Dragons aside, a history of the reign of the Starks from this point to that wouldn't be much different. And I for one would certainly like to read stuff about some Stark succession wars and the like.

2 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Reading through Aegon’s struggles against the Dornish, it absolutely boggles my mind that the Arryns, Lannisters,  Starks and Ironborn didn’t rise up at the same time. Particularly after Meraxes was killed. There is simply no way Aegon could have quelled them all.

One assumes because they profited more from staying true to their vows. But, yeah, that's somewhat of a problem. But don't you wonder why the Boltons, Umbers, Dustins, and all the other royal houses of the North do suffer those arrogant Starks? What could the Starks do if they just collectively said 'Fuck you, Winterfell, we are independent again?' ;-) The Targaryen conquest is just a larger version of the rather strange submission of the other great houses under the kings of old days.

And it is not really that especially the great houses would have felt Aegon's power as a yoke or something. In fact, it seems that ending the career path from robber knight to great lord - which is what those who originally rebelled against Aenys seem to miss - actually strengthened the power of the great lords since they were now representing the dragonriding king now.

The stuff about the King's Peace makes clear that the old kings didn't really have the same kind of power over their lords than the Targaryens later had. If you vassals no longer have tax freedom or are declared outlaws and traitors should they go to war without your and/or the king's leave, you actually have more power as great lord (especially as a Warden) than you would have before.

And especially the Starks likely got much more benefits out of their deal than any of the others. Aegon visited the North only six times, and Winterfell only once. Effectively continuing as vice-king in your domains while reaping the benefits of the united Realm should have helped. And it is not that Starks gave crap about the entire Aenys-Maegor thing (aside from some bastard), or Aegon's Dornish War. There is no mentioning of Northmen fighting in that one. So that should actually have been a pretty good deal, all things considered.

And that also seems to go for the Lannisters.

Unlike you have to wear a crown and call yourself king to feel great.

2 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

And between the lot of them, surely they could afford two Faceless men to get rid of Aegon and Visenya and end the invasion of incestuous silver haired freaks once and for all.

I guess you also think the Red Wedding was the honorable thing to do, right ;-)?

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38 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

They are not different from any other royal family putting the nobility in their place and winning the favor of the commoners who they free from the yoke of the local lords. Anyone having dragons - or nukes - would do the same. As they do in our world ;-).

Perhaps it works better if you pretend they are all Starks with huge flying direwolves ;-)? In the end they are just a fictional royal dynasty. Dragons aside, a history of the reign of the Starks from this point to that wouldn't be much different. And I for one would certainly like to read stuff about some Stark succession wars and the like.

One assumes because they profited more from staying true to their vows. But, yeah, that's somewhat of a problem. But don't you wonder why the Boltons, Umbers, Dustins, and all the other royal houses of the North do suffer those arrogant Starks? What could the Starks do if they just collectively said 'Fuck you, Winterfell, we are independent again?' ;-) The Targaryen conquest is just a larger version of the rather strange submission of the other great houses under the kings of old days.

And it is not really that especially the great houses would have felt Aegon's power as a yoke or something. In fact, it seems that ending the career path from robber knight to great lord - which is what those who originally rebelled against Aenys seem to miss - actually strengthened the power of the great lords since they were now representing the dragonriding king now.

The stuff about the King's Peace makes clear that the old kings didn't really have the same kind of power over their lords than the Targaryens later had. If you vassals no longer have tax freedom or are declared outlaws and traitors should they go to war without your and/or the king's leave, you actually have more power as great lord (especially as a Warden) than you would have before.

And especially the Starks likely got much more benefits out of their deal than any of the others. Aegon visited the North only six times, and Winterfell only once. Effectively continuing as vice-king in your domains while reaping the benefits of the united Realm should have helped. And it is not that Starks gave crap about the entire Aenys-Maegor thing (aside from some bastard), or Aegon's Dornish War. There is no mentioning of Northmen fighting in that one. So that should actually have been a pretty good deal, all things considered.

And that also seems to go for the Lannisters.

Unlike you have to wear a crown and call yourself king to feel great.

I guess you also think the Red Wedding was the honorable thing to do, right ;-)?

The cowardly part for me is how the weakest kingdom of all was fighting the Targaryens all on their own, for a generation, defiantly so, while the rest just looked on. Aegon was almost killed in at least two assassination attempts, they succeeded in killing Rhaenys, and Meraxes. And yet the Starks, Arryns, Greyjoys and Lannisters just looked on.

Imagine had the heroic Dornish managed to successfully assassinate Aegon and Visenya, or brought down the other two dragons, these cowards would have been quick to reclaim their sovereignity then. Something that could equally have been achieved if they just manned up and gave Dorne a hand.

An unexpected Stark/Arryn/Ironborn attack on Visenya in Kings Landing while Aegon was burning Dornish castles, or a Lannister funded Faceless man hit on Aegon, and it would all have been over.

But no, the cravens did nothing while Dorne bled alone. Unbowed, unbent, unbroken.

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I am still reading it, but I have to say I had a lot of hype for Jaehaerys I reign...and at the end I was even more impress than what I expected. It's amazing. And shows how prolific George can be if he wrote so much (100.000 words, almost 300 pages) in just one year

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5 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

But no, the cravens did nothing while Dorne bled alone. Unbowed, unbent, unbroken.

Well, the Dornish never were popular. Especially not with their neighbors who are the guys who invaded them - the men seem to be almost exclusively Stormlanders and Reach men.

And you presuppose the Lannisters, Arryns (Ronnel Arryn would have still been a child/youth when the war began), and Starks really resented Aegon and the Targaryens. They did not. Else they would have rebelled, one assumes.

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T

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, the Dornish never were popular. Especially not with their neighbors who are the guys who invaded them - the men seem to be almost exclusively Stormlanders and Reach men.

And you presuppose the Lannisters, Arryns (Ronnel Arryn would have still been a child/youth when the war began), and Starks really resented Aegon and the Targaryens. They did not. Else they would have rebelled, one assumes.

The Lannister lord who wanted Rhaena’s eggs still wanted to be a king in Jahaerys’s time. I doubt those ambitions would have been any weaker immediately after Aegon’s Conquest, when these men still had actual memories of BEING kings.

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7 minutes ago, Javi Marcos said:

I am still reading it, but I have to say I had a lot of hype for Jaehaerys I reign...and at the end I was even more impress than what I expected. It's amazing. And shows how prolific George can be if he wrote so much (100.000 words, almost 300 pages) in just one year

Yeah, it blow me away, too. I expect interesting things from Jaehaerys and Alysanne, but not that. Definitely not that. Nor did I expect so much interesting variety with their children. It is a pity that we don't get many cadet branches there, but the stories are still great.

And as I've already said a couple of times I say Rhaena is George's best character up to date, the main series included, which is especially striking because of the way the book is written.

4 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The Lannister lord who wanted Rhaena’s eggs still wanted to be a king in Jahaerys’s time. I doubt those ambitions would have been any weaker immediately after Aegon’s Conquest, when these men still had actual memories of BEING kings.

Lord Lyman wanted dragons. That's a subtle difference, although they would have likely been the means to a new crown - or at least to marrying into the royal family and share in Targaryen power and glory.

But I said you have a point with the non-existing effects of the First Dornish War on the lords back home. Aegon gets his ass kicked a couple of times very shortly after the Conquest. There should have been at least some minor rebellions - if they were dealt with very harshly the outcome could have been sold better, most likely.

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3 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said:

Torrhen Stark put his people first. Seriously, f*** the Yellow Toad. 

Do we hear any more about Queen Marla Sunderland?

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