FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

[chrisdaw]

2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

His priorities are those of a Lord of Winterfell. And this isn't a thread about Jon's hypothetical development.

With his very greeting GRRM is signalling a character with priorities not as expected. A clear slant that defines the character. I'll discuss the topic in the manner I wish, you don't like it don't read it, and better yet don't reply.

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, Lord Varys said:

Could also be. But I'm not sure why the people building the Wall would have wanted its magic to affect the dragons...?

Maybe the Wall prevents the extremes (cold/heat) from crossing. 

[Lord Varys]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Maybe the Wall prevents the extremes (cold/heat) from crossing. 

Could very well be. See above. It might be the Wall basically stops all magic (but greenseer stuff, who, most likely, built wrought the magic that went into the structure) because that was the only way to stop the Wall.

But if it only/mainly stops the Others (Melisandre, for instance, has no problems crossing the Wall and she is living, breathing fire magic - not exactly dragonfire-hot, but pretty hot) then it is very odd why the builders would want it to stop dragons.

Even more so if they and dragon steel and what not played a role in the War for the Dawn.

And as I said, the fact that Alysanne became a great champion of the Watch as well as her being troubled by Silverwing *not wanting to go* rather than her *not being able to go* is what gives the whole thing a sinister and interesting note.

If it was just the built-in *dragon stopper* in the Wall it would be tedious and all, but it could be circumvented and would, in the end, not that big of a deal. But if this has to do with the Others and their presence it really casts a very large shadow right from Silverwing to Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal and their effectiveness against the Others.

[AlaskanSandman]

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The fact that Silverwing apparently chose to not fly over the Wall could be a hint she sense what's going on beyond. Or not. Really difficult to say. However, if the magical barrier had thrown her back, I'd expect Silverwing to try and fail to cross rather than simply refuse to go where Alysanne wanted to take her. 

Also, the whole thing would be more sinister if Silverwing sensed the Others rather than just reacting to the Wall.

Interesting to think about Hardhome now

[AlaskanSandman]

Quote

She would go ahead as planned, alone, whilst the king played host to the Prince and Archon. Jaehaerys could join her at Winterfell as soon as the peace had been concluded. And so it was agreed.

Im watching you Aysanne

58 Ac, pretty close to the 62ac i had thought

 

 

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Samwell I

Could Silverwing have left an egg behind? Or had Stannis found one egg on Dragonstone?

 

 

Not Silverwing, but Alysanne at Queenscrown

[Lord Varys]

Additional stuff from the sketchy finished family tree from the video:

I see Androw Farman as Rhaena's third husband, as mentioned above already.

But we also get Laena Velaryon (II) as daughter of Alyn Velaryon and Baela Targaryen.

Guess they started it early to get to that 'issue' we learned about in the TWoIaF family tree.

Is that a hint that the mother of Ronnel Penrose whose daughters by Elaena Targaryen include a Laena Penrose was this Laena Velaryon? And Aelinor Penrose possibly Ronnel's daughter (by a previous wife) or his sister?

[AlaskanSandman]

Quote

“She was a Mormont of Bear Isle, and no lady by your lights, but she took an axe to a pack of wolves when she was twelve, killed two of them, and sewed a cloak from their skins. She gave me two strong sons as well, and a daughter as sweet to look upon as any of your southron ladies.”

The Bear, the Bear, the Maiden Fair.

I just knewwwwwwww either there would be a Mormont personally, or the son of  a Mormont by a Mormont woman, now named Stark.

Ooooooo i can't wait for this book 

[Makk]

I was wondering whether this is another play on the "pact of ice and fire". Although that was referring to marriage arrangements between Stark and Targaryens, these things can have multiple meanings. Was there some kind of contract where fire and ice would be divided by the wall? Has it been broken somehow? 

[Quoth the raven,]

I really dislike the north and its people.  They are prickly alright.  It really will come down to the battle between the elements of fire against ice.  The Targaryen fire versus Stark ice.  

 

[AlaskanSandman]

Any one other than me notice how Queen Alysanne hasn't mentioned any of her children yet, even after Aleric mentions his. Does she not have any yet? The K.R. doesn't' sound finished yet either.

[Lord Varys]

Guys, Lord Alaric is a widower. And Alysanne is *very hot*. And the man melted. He even went on a hunt with her and showed her a (or his?) giant's bone. One would have to wait and see when she is getting her next child when one had the full book if you get my meaning. Perhaps all those Targaryens actually are Starks ;-).

I still say Alysanne herself is just the granddaughter of some mummer.

3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Any one other than me notice how Queen Alysanne hasn't mentioned any of her children yet, even after Aleric mentions his. Does she not have any yet? The K.R. doesn't' sound finished yet either.

The royal children are so famous that they don't need to be mentioned all the time, one assumes. They might show up with King Jaehaerys if they are old enough - or not.

We have no reason to believe King Jaehaerys started his road project in the first decade of his reign. Even if he did, those roads would most definitely not be finished in 58 AC. 

One wonders whether Winterfell gets a more bookish lord further down the line. Cregan in his old age, perhaps? Alaric's library is modest, but Tyrion finds a few treasures in the library in AGoT, does he not?

The spectators showing up at White Harbor to watch the dragon might also be telling - the Northmen are, in the end, Targaryen men. They are also Stark men, of course, but when the dragon comes to them they won't turn him or her away. 

[zionius]

Two things I noticed:

1. Alysanne took Theomore Manderly's eldest daughter into court. While Alysanne's 10th child, Viserra Targaryen who was betrothed to a Lord Manderly was born a few years later. Her age would match the children of Theomore Manderly's eldest daughter. I guess that could explain how House Manderly finds a Targaryen bride: the little Lord Manderly grew up in the court and got familiar with Viserra Targaryen. Or the eldest daughter introduced her brother or nephew to Viserra.

2. The LC at the Wall was an Old Gods believer, meanwhile many of the black brothers had been Poor Fellows and Warrior’s Sons. We might see conflicts between them.

[Lord Varys]

8 minutes ago, zionius said:

2. The LC at the Wall was an Old Gods believer, meanwhile many of the black brothers had been Poor Fellows and Warrior’s Sons. We might see conflicts between them.

Didn't start Maegor sending Warrior's Sons to the Wall? Those he captured in Oldtown? If Jaehaerys I continued that practice and also allowed Poor Fellows to go up there, then there could indeed be a lot of Faith Militant people up there.

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Don't worry, the Winds are coming, and in the it Rickon will be beaten to death.

Woah there, I just wanted a fantasy book. I have enough snuff porn in my library already. Speaking of snuff porn.............

[Lord Varys]

As to George's video:

Who do expect to be 'mad' or 'bad' among the FaB Targaryens?

[The Grey Wolf]

@Lord Varys

Maegor the Cruel, Prince Aemond, Prince Daemon, and Aegon II for sure. Maybe Aegon, son of Baelon, too? And one of Jaehaerys I's three dead sons? Or a child of Rhaena? Aerea? Rhaella? There are so many possibilities.

[AlaskanSandman]

46 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I still say Alysanne herself is just the granddaughter of some mummer.

I wonder about that too haha Rhaeny's also makes me wonder about Dorne and Hell Holt. 

46 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The royal children are so famous that they don't need to be mentioned all the time, one assumes. They might show up with King Jaehaerys if they are old enough - or not.

We have no reason to believe King Jaehaerys started his road project in the first decade of his reign. Even if he did, those roads would most definitely not be finished in 58 AC. 

One wonders whether Winterfell gets a more bookish lord further down the line. Cregan in his old age, perhaps? Alaric's library is modest, but Tyrion finds a few treasures in the library in AGoT, does he not?

The spectators showing up at White Harbor to watch the dragon might also be telling - the Northmen are, in the end, Targaryen men. They are also Stark men, of course, but when the dragon comes to them they won't turn him or her away. 

True, we'll have to wait just a lil longer to get more.

I did notice that scant library collection too. Considering later they have a book on dragons, that is quite interesting. 

And true true on the K.R. Just pointing it out i guess

And those loyalties i bet tie back to Bael, and hardhome

[dhpike]

7 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

We might not be able to take the MUSH info about House Stark for granted, but it could be informative and helpful. It states that Lord Cregan was born in 108 AC and that his father Lord Rickon was born in 88 AC.

It wouldn't be a stretch, then, for Rickon's father Lord Benjen to have been born around 68 AC, and in his early to mid thirties at the time of the Great Council in 101 AC, when Ellard was Lord of Winterfell.

Which would put Lord Benjen's birth around ten years after this new story about Lord Alaric in 58 AC, who at the time had two strong sons and a daughter by his three years deceased Mormont wife.

There're two possible conditions I can think of regarding the Stark family tree:

1. Lord Ellard is the elder brother/cousin of Lord Benjen. Since Lord Alaric has two strong sons, it's possible that Ellard is the son of the first one while Benjen is the son of the second.

2. Lord Ellard is the younger son of Lord Alaric while Benjen is the son of Ellard. Suppose Ellard is only 10/11 in 58 AC, that will make him 20/21 in 68 AC and 53/54 in 101 AC, which is a perfect candidate to father Benjen.

[AlaskanSandman]

4 hours ago, Ran said:

Pretty certain that is exactly GRRM's intention. 

So is it only a one way line, or does it work both directions?

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, lrresistable said:

I got the impression Silverwing knew what was out there North of the Wall, and the danger, so was protecting Alysanne 

The others were not that far south at that point.