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Angel Eyes

Why didn't Littlefinger try the Bronn approach in dueling?

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When Littlefinger wanted to duel Brandon Stark for Catelyn's hand, why didn't he think of fighting Brandon the same way Bronn fought Ser Vardis Egen, by dodging everything, waiting for him to tire, and then stabbing him? He just sounds like he went in there with no strategy, and almost got torn to pieces. Those underdogs he looked up to got through their problems because they had a plan.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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Bronn is skilled swordsman, while as far as know Petyr never fought against anyone before Brandon.

Also one of factors of Bronn's victory was a fact that Vardis used Arryn's sword and armour(though, i am maybe wrong about armour) which slowed him.

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Brandon Stark wasn't wearing much armor, he took most of it off when he saw that Baelish wasn't wearing much either. So the chances of Brandon tiring faster than Baelish were unlikely as Brandon was the better and more experienced fighter. Young Baelish was also nowhere near as skilled as Bronn, who's a sellsword by trade and therefore relied upon his skill in arms to support himself. Baelish was also fighting emotionally unlike Bronn.

Edited by Ralphis Baratheon

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Like others have said, Bronn is a skilled warrior, Little Finger is never indicated to be any good in a fight or to have been back then.

Also Ser Vardis Egen seems like kind of a chump TBH. "Just dodge everything" really shouldn't work when you are dealing with a competent fighting in full armor. Yeah maybe you can dodge his sword strike but he'd still have a shield or mail gauntlt to batter you while you are off-balance from doding the sword swipe.

This is kinda like asking "Why wasn't Ned a master schemer like Varys".

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4 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Like others have said, Bronn is a skilled warrior, Little Finger is never indicated to be any good in a fight or to have been back then.

Also Ser Vardis Egen seems like kind of a chump TBH. "Just dodge everything" really shouldn't work when you are dealing with a competent fighting in full armor. Yeah maybe you can dodge his sword strike but he'd still have a shield or mail gauntlt to batter you while you are off-balance from doding the sword swipe.

This is kinda like asking "Why wasn't Ned a master schemer like Varys".

Well the first book didn’t think a bunch of things through, Martin as still figuring things out based on the quality jump in books 2 and 3.

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6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

When Littlefinger wanted to duel Brandon Stark for Catelyn's hand, why didn't he think of fighting Brandon the same way Bronn fought Ser Vardis Egen, by dodging everything, waiting for him to tire, and then stabbing him? He just sounds like he went in there with no strategy, and almost got torn to pieces. Those underdogs he looked up to got through their problems because they had a plan.

Brandon removed much of his armor when he fought young Littlefinger. 

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1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

Well the first book didn’t think a bunch of things through, Martin as still figuring things out based on the quality jump in books 2 and 3.

No I like that Bronn is able to take out a fully armored knight with skill and ingenuity, it put him over as a impressive and smart fighter in a great way.

What I do mind is assuming that anyone could replicate that e-z peace-y.

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8 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

why didn't he think of fighting Brandon the same way Bronn fought Ser Vardis Egen, by dodging everything, waiting for him to tire, and then stabbing him?

As others have said, Bronn knew what he was doing. He's a thirty-something veteran, who Tyrion reckons is almost as good as Jaime with a sword. LF was a teenager with zero experience and probably almost as little ability.

Bronn was fighting an older, slower man. Brandon was late teenaged/early twenties(?), probably faster than Littlefinger. Smaller doesn't mean faster, particularly at a young age. It's like suggesting that the captain of the maths team attempt to float like a butterfly, sting like a bee against a rugby player. Good luck brother...

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10 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

When Littlefinger wanted to duel Brandon Stark for Catelyn's hand, why didn't he think of fighting Brandon the same way Bronn fought Ser Vardis Egen, by dodging everything, waiting for him to tire, and then stabbing him? He just sounds like he went in there with no strategy, and almost got torn to pieces. Those underdogs he looked up to got through their problems because they had a plan.

Because bronn was the better fighter who fights a specific way ,lf isnt a skilled fighter and brandon is specifaly named by ned as a great warrior(bear in mind brandon felt he could beat rhaeghar one on one)

Even then we learn bronn had some near misses in that fight  and probably wouldnt have volunteered at all had lysa choosen say bronze royce or lyn corbray

 

Brandon is bigger ,probably faster and wayyy more skilled.....no plan could have saved lf from an ass whupping basicaly it was a mismatch

Edited by hodorisfaclessman

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9 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Bronn is skilled swordsman, while as far as know Petyr never fought against anyone before Brandon.

Also one of factors of Bronn's victory was a fact that Vardis used Arryn's sword and armour(though, i am maybe wrong about armour) which slowed him.

He used a beautiful cerimonal sword of jons instead of the more practical one he was used to, but the armour was his own

Plus if i recall bronn had reach advantage  on him too as well as youth

Hes faster in limited armour plus probably used to fighting in limited armour as a poor sellsword who probably couldnt afford full suit of plate

 

 

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10 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Even then we learn bronn had some near misses in that fight  

That’s an important point as well actually.

The tactic is extremely risky, as Bronn says (and the Mountain and Oberyn rather dramatically prove). It relies on being able to dodge every single blow, as a good shot that lands will remove any speed advantage you may have.

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30 minutes ago, hodorisfaclessman said:

Plus if i recall bronn had reach advantage  on him

Another good point. There's no advantage in dancing around an opponent if you can't land a blow. LF would have had to use a spear, like Oberyn, and that just seems farcical

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Brandon Stark was a seasoned warrior who was known for his skills with a sword, LF was a nobody with no noteworthy skill with a sword which is why the outcome that happened HAPPENED. 

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6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

When Littlefinger wanted to duel Brandon Stark for Catelyn's hand, why didn't he think of fighting Brandon the same way Bronn fought Ser Vardis Egen, by dodging everything, waiting for him to tire, and then stabbing him? He just sounds like he went in there with no strategy, and almost got torn to pieces. Those underdogs he looked up to got through their problems because they had a plan.

You make it sound like such a simple strategy to dodge everything but Petyr was barely fifteen while Brandon was twenty.  Brandon was the heir apparent to Winterfell and would have have the finest training in swordplay and hand to hand combat while Petyr was lowborn and there is no mention in the books about him sparring or training as a fighter.

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36 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

You make it sound like such a simple strategy to dodge everything but Petyr was barely fifteen while Brandon was twenty.  Brandon was the heir apparent to Winterfell and would have have the finest training in swordplay and hand to hand combat while Petyr was lowborn and there is no mention in the books about him sparring or training as a fighter.

As the ward of a Lord Paramount, I'd think that Petyr would have training in arms.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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19 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

As the ward of a Lord Paramount, I'd think that Petyr would have training in arms.

Sure but there is a pretty big difference between "is trained" and "almost as good as pre-chop chop Jaime".

Again that is like saying "why didn't Ned scheme as good as Varys?". They have different training, aptitude and experience.

21 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Anyways, I would have thought that the training at Winterfell is rather lacking apart from Brandon, since the Lannister soldiers slaughtered the soldiers Ned brought to King's Landing en masse in AGOT.

Ned's guards were surprised, outnumber and outflanked in every fight in aGoT.

Also there is a pretty big difference between the training and attention given to a house guard and a Paramount Heir.

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You know Bronn is a skilled sword fighter right? He was hardly the underdog, he’s an accomplished sellsword after all. His tactic worked because he knew how to do it, and helped because Ser Vardis was in full armour.

Whereas Littlefinger likely had little training in combat and was at a severe disadvantage. Tbh I expect the reason Littlefinger wasn’t immediately laid out is because he was dodging, but he would never be able to keep it up long enough.

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17 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

As the ward of a Lord Paramount, I'd think that Petyr would have training in arms.

Maybe he did have some training in arms but GRRM never mentioned it and it would not have been of the same quality that Brandon received and he was still barely fifteen whereas Brandon was twenty and knighted (he had a squire of his own when he died) with experience in at least one tourney.  The situation is nothing like those described in the duels that Bronn and Oberyn participated in.  Both of them had a great deal of battle and dueling experience and a clearly described advantage of speed and agility to counter the armour of their opponents.

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