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Do people actually believe Bolt-on?

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7 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Seems to me like it would be prudent to get hitched before going to war and considering the long distances in the North and the whole "last of the true borne line" Roose sending his troops first then joining the fighting later seems like the safer option.

Robb didn't give him that option.  Young wolf wanted to move troops ASAP.

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1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Robb didn't give him that option.

Roose is the head of the second House of the North. I think it is fair to say he could have asked for time to sort out the survival of his house. Maybe Robb would have said no but Roose never asked AFAWK.

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8 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Roose's eyes are not grey. They are white, alternately described as the color of milk, like two chips of ice, two pale moons, pale as morning mist -- basically, his irises are about the same color as the whites of his eyes. The thing is, nobody can have eyes like this and still be able to see. Even albinos have pink or even red eyes. So that's point one in favor of Roose not being entirely human.

Then we add all the other oddities about Roose: he is virtually hairless, never sweats, is able to silence big boisterous louts like the Greatjon with barely a whisper, and he is the only character who leeches himself on a regular basis; what better way to prevent the blood from pooling in his hands and feet?

Then we have the whole Domeric thing. Sorry, but even the most vile, evil lord on the planet still values his house, his titles and his legacy. So the idea that Roose would not only pardon his bastard son for murdering his true heir -- a man who would have done nothing but bring fame and glory to House Bolton and probably gotten an exceedingly profitable marriage -- but then arrange for his legitimacy and elevate him to become Roose's own liege lord...? That's not evil, that is exceedingly stupid; and Roose is anything but stupid.

And your own namesake tells part of this tale. Brandon Ice-Eyes was probably Roose.

I know it sounds crazy and I'm not expecting anyone to buy into it. But when Roose dies, check and see if Ramsay doesn't suddenly calm down, start speaking in whispers and leeching himself. I think you'll have your answer.

I agree that something is wrong/unnatural with Roose. Probably not another Lovecraft-nod since we already have the sistermen and the creepy green lizard people in Essos.

Mel kills three kings with leeches so leeches plainly have some magic. I've always assumed its from using them too much is why Roose is drained of emotion and colours. I imagine he has some very dark urges that he needs the leeches to control.

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Not the worst and illogical theory because we have already the Mance is Rhaegar one, but plot wise it would be disastrous if it's true. A thousands of years old non-human who likes to wander around humans and to be evil. :ack: If it is true, I hope at least is made to look better.

I think that his connection with the Others is very symbolical, because, as a man who likes to leech humanity out of life, is helping the others indirectly, reducing the men power, being ignorant of Others' existence. I think he'll die before he gets to know they're back.

Blood means life, and Roose leeches it from himself. He dehumanizes himself, voluntarily. 

He leeches the northern army on the red wedding, the army which can help fighting the others, just before the same army reaches the north again, and probably learn about the threat from beyond the wall.

He whispers, people struggle to hear his words. The Others are described to communicate in a somewhat strange way, just at the beginning of the series.  

His motto is "a peaceful land, a quiet people", which can be interpreted as some sort of an Other-utopia, where people don't talk (quiet/dead people), so the land would be peaceful, since no one would be left to speak. 

Likes to cut tongues, well this just fits with the above. "A quiet people". 

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Roose Bolton appears to be living on borrowed time.  The leeches suck out diseased blood.  This is why he is worried about living for only a few more years.  His decisions are compromised because he has limited time left.  Jon Connington is in the same predicament.  Both men make unwise decisions because they are dying.  

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On 10/1/2018 at 6:19 AM, Kandrax said:

Bolt-on is on same boat with Tyrion's time traveling fetus, Mance is Rheagar or Daario is Euron/Benjen/Syrio/Jaqen/and Moonboy for all i know.

Dario is Moonboy! How could I have missed it? It's all so obvious now. 

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22 hours ago, zandru said:

So that proves it! George RR was a big Lovecraft fan, and this is yet another tribute!

It is more than just a tribute, I am really starting to think ASOIAF is a Lovecraft prequel/origin story.  I am reading a book that came out in 1994 that is a compilation of Lovecraft-inspired stories about the Black Goat of the Woods (Shub-Niggurath Cycle), and there are essentially weirwoods on the cover.  One of the stories is called Dreams in the House of Weir, in that story anyone who stays in the House of Weir has dreams of another world where surface dwellers are at war with CoTF-like underground tunnelers who are the servitors of the Black Goat (and they tunnel close to the surface and make the buildings collapse).  Qohor = "cohors" which in latin means "attendants"

In another story (To Clear the Earth) a guy with the last name Stark goes to the heart of winter and finds an alien artifact/ floating metallic sphere that shoots Black Fire and is designed make the Earth hospitable for the Old Ones by killing all living creatures (if you get hit by the black fire you turn into black stone/black ice).  The sphere is Yeb (and he has a twin, Nug), they are the children of the Black Goat and Yog Sothoth, they need humans to flip a switch to begin the Armageddon, so they sent out psychic dreams or broadcasts to attract humans so that they come to either the North or South Pole to turn them on.

In another story (the Moon Lens) a white tree-shaped deity lives under a hill and feeds on humans, in the story it is explained that this creature is the true basis for many of the earth mother and nature gods of human religions.

Also, I just listened to Lovecraft's The Mound the other day, in that story there is a lost civilization that lives underground, and was once very technologically advanced, but has regressed, and uses telepathically controlled reanimated corpses for slave labor, and people who broke the law were sentenced to be tortured to death and become undead sentinels guarding the entrances (reminds me of the 79 Sentinels, and the undead guarding/waiting at Bloodraven's cave).

Also, the shining trapezohedron is the bloodstone, Church of Starry Wisdom. Nyarlahotep is the Night's King who can only come out when it is absolutely dark outside, squishers from Shadow over Innsmouth, etc.

I think most of Lovecraft's deities are amalgamated into the weirwood, Yig, Cthulhu, Yog-Sothoth, the Black Goat, they are all the weirwood.  Yuggoth, the Black Planet built out of black stone, is the Lion of Night spaceship the God on Earth came to Earth in and set up the Great Empire of the Dawn.

There is really way too much for it just to be an homage.

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Just here to say that there´ll probably never be a payoff from all the weird stuff surrounding Roose, and that´s a good thing. GRRM just writes so well, and probably has a fully-formed story on the Boltons/Roose, but has the skill to keep it to himself. I hope.

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14 hours ago, Sigella said:

I agree that something is wrong/unnatural with Roose. Probably not another Lovecraft-nod since we already have the sistermen and the creepy green lizard people in Essos.

Mel kills three kings with leeches so leeches plainly have some magic. I've always assumed its from using them too much is why Roose is drained of emotion and colours. I imagine he has some very dark urges that he needs the leeches to control.

Are the Sistermen Lovecraftian? Lots of people in the real world have webbing between their fingers and toes. It's called syndactyly, a genetically inherited trait. And if Roose is the son of the Night King, I wouldn't say it was a nod to Lovecraft. Literature is chock-full of ancient menaces that take on human form: Lucifer, Dracula, dopplegangers, kitsunes...

My understanding of Mel's little leech spell wasn't that the leeches were magic, but the king's blood was. The leeches were merely the vessel to transfer the blood from Edric Storm to the brazier.

Lady Dustin says the leeches have drained the emotion from Roose, but I think this is building off the common myth that the heart is responsible for love and emotion. I think the reality is that without the leeches, Roose would have the impossible job of explaining why his hands and feet are black, just like Coldhand's. I'll add, though, that Lady Dustin does hit the nail on the head when she observes:

Quote

"This is a game to him, mildly diverting. Some men hunt, some hawk, some tumble dice. Roose plays with men. You and me, these Freys, Lord Manderly, his plump new wife, even his bastard, we are but his playthings."

This is perfectly in keeping with a being who is thousands of years old surrounded by short-lived humans. They would be of no greater significance to him than mice are to us: amusing perhaps, useful for experimentation and observation, but nothing to become overly attached to.

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29 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Are the Sistermen Lovecraftian? Lots of people in the real world have webbing between their fingers and toes. It's called syndactyly, a genetically inherited trait. And if Roose is the son of the Night King, I wouldn't say it was a nod to Lovecraft. Literature is chock-full of ancient menaces that take on human form: Lucifer, Dracula, dopplegangers, kitsunes...

My understanding of Mel's little leech spell wasn't that the leeches were magic, but the king's blood was. The leeches were merely the vessel to transfer the blood from Edric Storm to the brazier.

Lady Dustin says the leeches have drained the emotion from Roose, but I think this is building off the common myth that the heart is responsible for love and emotion. I think the reality is that without the leeches, Roose would have the impossible job of explaining why his hands and feet are black, just like Coldhand's. I'll add, though, that Lady Dustin does hit the nail on the head when she observes:

This is perfectly in keeping with a being who is thousands of years old surrounded by short-lived humans. They would be of no greater significance to him than mice are to us: amusing perhaps, useful for experimentation and observation, but nothing to become overly attached to.

Does leeches have any interest in dead blood, though? I don't think they could even suck it out considering coagulation and all?

 

edit: Roose being manipulative and uncaring could be explained by a lot of different things. 

Edited by Sigella

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3 hours ago, Sigella said:

Does leeches have any interest in dead blood, though? I don't think they could even suck it out considering coagulation and all?

 

edit: Roose being manipulative and uncaring could be explained by a lot of different things. 

Well, remember, Roose is only half undead, so his blood would have both living and dead properties. It probably won't coagulate and pool in the extremities as quickly as a full undead, and he would continue to generate new blood, although probably not as quickly as a living human. I'm not sure how finicky leeches are when it comes to blood.

And sure, Roose's personality could mean that he's just a prick, but the eyes, the voice, the hairless body, his inexplicable elevating of Ramsay, Brandon Ice-Eyes ... all of it can be resolved through this one explanation.

So all I'm saying for now is, if Roose dies, keep an eye on Ramsay and see if he changes. We can revisit at that point. :)

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2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Well, remember, Roose is only half undead, so his blood would have both living and dead properties. It probably won't coagulate and pool in the extremities as quickly as a full undead, and he would continue to generate new blood, although probably not as quickly as a living human. I'm not sure how finicky leeches are when it comes to blood.

And sure, Roose's personality could mean that he's just a prick, but the eyes, the voice, the hairless body, his inexplicable elevating of Ramsay, Brandon Ice-Eyes ... all of it can be resolved through this one explanation.

So all I'm saying for now is, if Roose dies, keep an eye on Ramsay and see if he changes. We can revisit at that point. :)

Absolutely. :)

Though chances are we won't get anything more on it, since they have both Stannis, Manderly and maybe unJon against them I don't predict they will survive.

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19 hours ago, Sigella said:

Absolutely. :)

Though chances are we won't get anything more on it, since they have both Stannis, Manderly and maybe unJon against them I don't predict they will survive.

Oh, I don't know about that. Win or lose, I can easily see Rams making his way back to Winterfell where Roose will pounce on him and take his skin. Then he'll either stay on as lord if the coast is clear (where he'll be in a perfect position to hand the north over to his undead brethren) or make his way south with the surviving Freys, which will set up a nice confrontation with Lady Stoneheart in a fight to the true death.

Edited by John Suburbs
added thought

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On 9/30/2018 at 8:50 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

and all of them are merely pawns of a bored bloodraven, who is stuck in s tree 

LOL  I really do hate the 'Bloodraven is in every animal and/or person and/or corpse' that turns up in every situation' stuff.  It drives me crazy. 

ETA:  I find Roose to be interesting enough just the way he is, a weird guy with weird ideas and habits. 

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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19 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

LOL  I really do hate the 'Bloodraven is in every animal and/or person and/or corpse' that turns up in every situation' stuff.  It drives me crazy. 

ETA:  I find Roose to be interesting enough just the way he is, a weird guy with weird ideas and habits. 

7 years between books and growing leads to all sorts of theories. I had someone try to convince me that Euron was Dario. When I pointed out the great distance he would be forced to  regularly travel  they said "I did the math, it works fine!!"

 

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1 minute ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

7 years between books and growing leads to all sorts of theories. I had someone try to convince me that Euron was Dario. When I pointed out the great distance he would be forced to  regularly travel  they said "I did the math, it works fine!!"

 

That Bolt-on crap had some people quite married to it a few years ago.  I'm sure some still are, after all, it's been kinda quiet around here the past couple of years, book wise.  I do think some of this idea comes from the fact that Roose's personality seems to remind some of a certain vampire from the book Fever Dream (my screen namesake).  I think the similarities in the two characters may have come up over the years with George (not sure on that, though).

No, no, no Euron is The Dusky Woman, Benjen is Daario, Jojen is Paste, Rhaegar is Mance, and Howland is The High Sparrow.  Bloodraven is every one, or thing, else.   :P:lmao:

 

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I think it is silly and really overdoes Roose's "strangeness". Really, he seems pretty normal in the Reek chapters when he is in private company. That said, I wouldn't be surprise if the Boltons practice or practiced some form of magic related to their flaying customs. My pet theory is that Roose will defeat Stannis by pulling another "Renly's Ghost" on him only with the Young Wolf. I think it is quite possible he took possession of Robb's body and flayed him and some trickery will result.

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