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Gink

Melisandre and Thoros of Myr

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I was reading an old thread on this forum, and a meeting of these two characters was very briefly discussed.

One poster said this meeting would "end the story", another that they'd meet much later (in ADoS), and that it would "answer a lot of questions."

I'm not sure what I've missed since I dont really get what they mean. It's been a while since I read the books. 

Thanks for any clarification on this. I didn't want to necro a three year old thread.

Edited by Gink

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4 hours ago, Gink said:

They met in the show, briefly, not much came of that. Thoros sold Gendry to Mel, and Mel learned Thoros could revive Beric, but that was it if my memory serves me.

This stuff are forbidden here.

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Yes, as Kandrax said, no talk of the abomination this side of the forum. :)

Now, onto the story... I don't really see what such a meeting would achieve. Mel would probably look down on Thoros. And Thoros himself doesn't really know or understand what is going on w/ his ability to resurrect people. And if they do meet is if the BwB heads North... I don't really see Mel going south, unless it's much much later w/ the WWs pouring onto the Riverlands. 

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I'd like to see if there was some overall plan by the Faith of R'hllor. First, they sent Thoros and lost him to the faith of rum, women, and song. But Thoros has been through the meatgrinder with his service in the Brotherhood w/o Banners and even worse in the Brotherhood w/o Beric under Lady Dead Catelyn. He seems to have a deep understanding of individual people; witness his evaluations of the Hound.

Melisande, from her one eye-opening point of view chapter, seems enamored with herself, misinterprets her visions, and seems to be pulling a scam, partly on herself. Does she really believe Stannis is Azor Ahai and the "magical" sword she prepared for him is Lightbringer? It doesn't fit the description. Is she scamming Stannis - or herself?

I'll have to re-read the Moquero chapters. If he knows Melisandre and discounts her, it would be interesting to know why. Maybe she wasn't sent and is simply a loose cannon.

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On 10/5/2018 at 10:42 AM, Gink said:

One poster said this meeting would "end the story", another that they'd meet much later (in ADoS), and that it would "answer a lot of questions."

Thoros hugs Melisandre then says "Grandmother, I'v missed you so very much."

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7 minutes ago, zandru said:

I'd like to see if there was some overall plan by the Faith of R'hllor. First, they sent Thoros and lost him to the faith of rum, women, and song. But Thoros has been through the meatgrinder with his service in the Brotherhood w/o Banners and even worse in the Brotherhood w/o Beric under Lady Dead Catelyn. He seems to have a deep understanding of individual people; witness his evaluations of the Hound.

Melisande, from her one eye-opening point of view chapter, seems enamored with herself, misinterprets her visions, and seems to be pulling a scam, partly on herself. Does she really believe Stannis is Azor Ahai and the "magical" sword she prepared for him is Lightbringer? It doesn't fit the description. Is she scamming Stannis - or herself?

I'll have to re-read the Moquero chapters. If he knows Melisandre and discounts her, it would be interesting to know why. Maybe she wasn't sent and is simply a loose cannon.

The way I see it: Moqorro-More accurate visions, is heading to Daenerys, the more likely person to have a key role defeating the others.

Melisandre, less accurate visions, helps Stannis who will reach certain point, but maybe not fighting or defeating the others, more likely setting the terrain for it.

Daenerys-representing the Fire Family, Stannis, representing the Partially-Fire family.

Seems like Moqorro is in better touch with his religion, so I think that this is telling. 

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Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

"What do you see, my lady?" the boy asked, softly.

Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow. Whenever she was asked what she saw within her fires, Melisandre would answer, "Much and more," but seeing was never as simple as those words suggested. It was an art, and like all arts it demanded mastery, discipline, study. Pain. That too. R'hllor spoke to his chosen ones through blessed fire, in a language of ash and cinder and twisting flame that only a god could truly grasp. Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price. There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames.

If she's talking (ok, thinking....) about 'her order', that implies that there are different streams of thought within the R'hlorrist religion - same as Franciscan, Dominican, Jesuit or Templar orders are/were different strands within the Catholic church.

I would guess from this that not everyone who follows the Red God is going to be obedient to Benerro, and there may even be a conflict within the religion with different orders vying for control.

Anyway, it may explain why Mel, Thoros and Moqorro are all such different characters despite all supposedly being priests of the same religion...

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5 hours ago, zandru said:

Maybe she wasn't sent and is simply a loose cannon.

FWIW, Martin confirmed that Mel "has her own agenda". 

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On 10/12/2018 at 10:51 AM, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Now Moqorro and Mel. I would like to see that meeting. Doesn't he think poorly of her or something?

These priests and priestesses are on a mission to find the messiah figure.  They are like holy men and women on a pilgrimage to find the person who will save the world from the darkness and the ice.  Moqorro will speak for Dany while Mellissandre will speak for Jon.  I am assuming Ramsay told the truth and Stannis is crow food now.  

 

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Thoros is a low ranking priest.  But he has the power of the necromancers.  I think he will get their attention.  The church could give this recovering alcoholic a promotion.  

Edited by 867-5309

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I can't see anything important coming from their meeting, but it would be interesting. I guess Thoros/Beric is proof that someone can be brought back from the dead, which is information that Mel would find useful, however it's unlikely that their paths will cross anytime soon - unless maybe Mel hightails it out of Castle Black and runs into them. 

11 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

If she's talking (ok, thinking....) about 'her order', that implies that there are different streams of thought within the R'hlorrist religion - same as Franciscan, Dominican, Jesuit or Templar orders are/were different strands within the Catholic church.

I like this idea - this is probably true, and more interesting than having 3 identical characters walking around.

Thoros' character interests me the most because he gave up on his religion almost but then came back again when the power of R'hollor was proven to him.  

Edited by Mat92
Added extra content.

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The Church Of The Red God will get a big public relations boost because winter is coming.  The opposite of ice and is fire.  Ice is the coming killer and all those associated with ice will be seen as the enemy of mankind.  

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On 10/13/2018 at 6:46 PM, 867-5309 said:

Thoros is a low ranking priest.  But he has the power of the necromancers.  I think he will get their attention.  The church could give this recovering alcoholic a promotion.  

Thoros seems to lack the understanding of the power he wields in comparison to Mel. He can see some visions and has the power to resurrect but his goals are unclear - to me anyway. He is not content with the way Lady Stoneheart runs the show but he continues to be in the brotherhood. Why?

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The difference between Thoros and Mel is that he doesn't come anywhere close to Mel's religious zealotry. He doesn't look down on the other religions, and seems to understand the power of the other gods better than Mel does and is willing to use that. I don't know that those two would like each other or get along. 

Unlike Thoros, it doesn't seem like Mel was sent by anyone to Westeros. 

Her chapter was very interesting. And why she wants Jon Snow's trust is a complete mystery, especially since she doesn't seem to understand (or want to understand) what her flames are telling her. 

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On 10/12/2018 at 10:51 AM, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Now Moqorro and Mel. I would like to see that meeting. Doesn't he think poorly of her or something?

He could possibly have known her when she served at the Red Temple in Volantis. They would meet with their respective AA candidates. She would say "Stannis is AAR, see he has fulfilled the prophecy with a dragon woken." It would be the sunk cost fallacy at that point. To which Moqorro would reply that Dany is the real AAR, who hatched real dragons as opposed to Melisandre's false (ice) dragon, which is just a trick and proof that she has fallen off track in serving the Great Other through her misguided quest.  

14 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

The difference between Thoros and Mel is that he doesn't come anywhere close to Mel's religious zealotry. He doesn't look down on the other religions, and seems to understand the power of the other gods better than Mel does and is willing to use that. I don't know that those two would like each other or get along. 

Unlike Thoros, it doesn't seem like Mel was sent by anyone to Westeros. 

Her chapter was very interesting. And why she wants Jon Snow's trust is a complete mystery, especially since she doesn't seem to understand (or want to understand) what her flames are telling her. 

Well, Thoros wasn't as devout as Melisandre, or rather he never really was that into R'hllorism. As a result, he is more tolerant and accepting of other faiths. I think she would get on his nerves.

As to the last part, her flames are telling her "For God's sake, lady, I am practically handing you the answers to the test. Jon Snow is AAR. Why can't you get that?"

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14 hours ago, Fire Eater said:

He could possibly have known her when she served at the Red Temple in Volantis. They would meet with their respective AA candidates. She would say "Stannis is AAR, see he has fulfilled the prophecy with a dragon woken." It would be the sunk cost fallacy at that point. To which Moqorro would reply that Dany is the real AAR, who hatched real dragons as opposed to Melisandre's false (ice) dragon, which is just a trick and proof that she has fallen off track in serving the Great Other through her misguided quest.  

Well, Thoros wasn't as devout as Melisandre, or rather he never really was that into R'hllorism. As a result, he is more tolerant and accepting of other faiths. I think she would get on his nerves.

As to the last part, her flames are telling her "For God's sake, lady, I am practically handing you the answers to the test. Jon Snow is AAR. Why can't you get that?"

Yeah I feel like red is totally dyed. Mel is a natural blonde. 

Edited by Legitimate_Bastard

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On 10/13/2018 at 12:07 AM, The Sunland Lord said:

The way I see it: Moqorro-More accurate visions, is heading to Daenerys, the more likely person to have a key role defeating the others.

But can he produce shadow babies?

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