honorable men Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 If you're fighting in Westeros, you should've stick with the Seven. If you're fighting in the North, you should stick with Old Gods. Regardless if you're a atheist. Its true, converting religions will bring more loyal & devout followers. Richard Horpe Clayton Suggs, Corliss Penny, Godry Farring, Malegorn of Redpool, Justin Massey (lolol?), Patrek of Kings Mountain, Narbet Grandison, Perkin Follard. etc So what do you think, Will Mel deliver? Did converting to Rhllor help Stannis' cause? Even though he's the rightful King? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
867-5309 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Lords with big egos can be seduced. A man with a big ego who also happened to have a big grudge is even easier to seduce. Along comes this woman from the east who told him about R'hllor. She elaborates and tells him he's the warrior of the light. What great man doesn't want to believe he has a significant place in history? It's easy to see why he fell under her spell. Stannis is not good with politics. He doesn't bend to popularity. Which is a good thing in some respects. He also doesn't believe he has to win people over. He is a feudal lord through and through. He is the king because it's his right and how the people feel about it doesn't matter. He and Roose Bolton are the epitome of how it is to be a nobleman in a feudal system. Roose doesn't even believe a serving person having the right to speak unless given permission. Stannis is a branch from the same tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Trouble with burning weir woods is that you burn a whole lot of information with it. It’s like having a library go up in smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aline de Gavrillac Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 What options did Stannis have? The faith supported Joffrey. He didn't have convincing proof. He was a lost dog that needed to find shelter. The red woman gave him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alienor Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Well, Stannis doesn't think he has to justify himself to anyone, because he is the rightful king. With that mindset, converting to R'hollor makes perfect sense: Mel promises power and actually delivers. Not always what she promises, but she does, to him, seem to know important things before they happen, giving him an important advantage over everything else. Also, I've always felt that Stannis is an atheist, probably because of how he had to see his parents ship sink, so renouncing the Seven doesn't actually hurt him personally in any way. Because what other people, both the nobility and the smallfolk, think actually is important if you want to be king, forcing people to convert and burning religious statues kind of dooms his dream of kingship. There's no way the Faith would accept Stannis, and DWD kind of proves how important they are. And Stannis' enemies are already all to happy to use it against him. So, essentially, from Stannis' perspective it makes perfect sense, from our perspective we can see that it's hurting his cause significantly, probably even fatally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daena the Defiant Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Well, the human sacrifice is a definite con, I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontius Pilate Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Pros - He has Mellisandre Cons - He has Mellisandre He can't have it two ways. She gave him the shadow baby. But asks him to forsake his old religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 R'hllor is without a doubt the most bizarre religion any one could have thrown in with to gain support in a bid for the throne. It's got no real Westerosi followers outside of Selyse Florent Baratheon and her lickspittals. I guess Thoros has made some strong converts, but the BWB is all about being king's men--but they have absolutely nothing to do with Stannis' campaign. Mel's R'hllor seems insidious to me. She's not connected to HQ in Volantis or Asshai and seems to have carved a place for her R'hllor with Stannis. The 7 rule in Westeros. Is this a fight for Dawn, the IT or something else? For all the flame gazing Dany nor Thoros ever blip on her screen? What is she dialed into? As @867-5309, said above, Stannis fits the MO for a seduction. Was this some enchantment Mel worked or just a desperate bid for at least his own wife's family's support? I have a hard time believing Stannis believes he is anything other than well, what he is. He doesn't appear to buy into any of it. A really strange choice for alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dragons Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 In the books didn't accept the faith of Rhillor he was using as a tool to control the mass (the people) That is what some King and Queen use religion for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltharion21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 10/7/2018 at 5:26 AM, honorable men said: If you're fighting in Westeros, you should've stick with the Seven. If you're fighting in the North, you should stick with Old Gods. Regardless if you're a atheist. Its true, converting religions will bring more loyal & devout followers. Richard Horpe Clayton Suggs, Corliss Penny, Godry Farring, Malegorn of Redpool, Justin Massey (lolol?), Patrek of Kings Mountain, Narbet Grandison, Perkin Follard. etc So what do you think, Will Mel deliver? Did converting to Rhllor help Stannis' cause? Even though he's the rightful King? Horpe , Massey and some of the others, seem to have different interests than following Red God. I am not sure if Melisandre will remain faithful to Stannis, if she finds someone who fits better her vision of Azor Ahai. Coming of maybe the Longest Winter and Others with it, along with "miracles" preformed by some Red Priests may increase amount of believers , though that Faith may also become destructive force if unchecked (too many sacrifices). Stannis didn't have many options in part due his rigid character at start of the War. I think this exchange can be applied, it is dilemma do you use assassin, killer drones, nuclear weapons, zealots or sorcery to get what you want : Quote "Sorcery is a sword without a hilt. There is no safe way to grasp it." "A sword without a hilt is still a sword, though, and a sword is a fine thing to have when foes are all about. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dragons Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 10/7/2018 at 4:57 PM, Daena the Defiant said: Well, the human sacrifice is a definite con, I'd say. it the priests that sacrifice the humans not Rhillor. If you read the books like Fire and Blood it one of earlier Septa that call the murder of Aenys I and his children because he says the seven call for it. The people like Poor Followers and Warriors Sons follow the Septa's orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf's Bane Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 10/7/2018 at 4:57 PM, Daena the Defiant said: Well, the human sacrifice is a definite con, I'd say. I can why this would trouble the followers of the Seven. But the Starks and those who follow the old gods are the real pros when it comes to human sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platypus Rex Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Pros: Power ... Cons; … Corrupts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddard Waters Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Pros: Weaponized Magic Cons: PR Disaster, alienates you from the vast majority of the population of Westeros Granted if Stannis did not convert, Renly would be on the Iron Throne right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three-Fingered Pete Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Pros: It's allowed Stannis to stick around long enough to be a foil to about two-thirds of the POVs/characters. Cons: Stannis will be "hoist with his own petard" because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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