US Politics: Red Whine Hangover

[aceluby]

6 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

Alaska, Idaho, and Alabama deserve a voice in the discussion, and if you went with mob rule democracy, their voice would be ignored

Do they not have a voice in congress?  Do they not get two seats each in the senate, the same as everyone else?  Why then should their votes count proportionally more than someone from Texas or New York when voting for the President?  We were never talking about 'mob rule democracy', but the reason why one vote should count more heavily than another when voting for a common seat between them.

I'm guessing you wouldn't be ok with your local congress votes getting weighed by how much land ownership they had.  That's basically your argument here, some people deserve to have their votes for the President weighed heavier than others, and you have not provided any kind of answer why this should be ok in a democracy.  As a conservative I'd think you'd want to conserve the one person, one vote mentality of a democracy.

[Rippounet]

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

I take your points, but it seems to me that when one has many plausible charges that one can make against Trump, why should one make the implausible argument that he and his supporters are like the Nazis?

I dunno about others, but for me it's about being on the lookout for certain elements that have the potential to be used for serious political oppression.
Things like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/14/donald-trump-inauguration-protest-website-search-warrant-dreamhost?CMP=share_btn_tw

https://biglawbusiness.com/homeland-security-to-compile-database-of-journalists-bloggers/

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/in-america-naturalized-citizens-no-longer-have-an-assumption-of-permanence

These are news that do not fall into the classic liberal-conservative divide but into the democratic-autocratic one.

And technically so's this (just posted by @Crazy Cat Lady in Training ) :
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/10/08/lindsy_graham_third_term_for_trump_is_looking_better_and_better.html

Entertaining the possibility of Trump as an autocrat may sound crazy in some ways. But it would be even crazier to dismiss the possibility. That man is dangerous, and anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.

In fact, conservatives downplaying the threats to democracy, morality, or institutional norms posed by Donald Trump is a pretty good example of hyper-polarization on the right. Something similar would be leftists downplaying the autocratic tendencies of Maduro or Jinping. In fact, when a few do, it's generally met with cries of outrage. Just look at @Chaircat Meow 's outburst when I started talking about the Soviet Union yesterday. But somehow, if it's conservatives it's a-okay to downplay autocratic tendencies...

I guess anone who fights to prevent the killing of "innocent life" has to be one of the "good guys." Even if that includes someone like Pinochet...

[Fragile Bird]

Nikki Haley has resigned as UN ambassador. I just heard the news, fon’t Know the reason. Did she quit or get fired?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Frog Eater said:

Alaska, Idaho, and Alabama deserve a voice in the discussion, and if you went with mob rule democracy, their voice would be ignored

They do deserve a voice, but ask yourself this, should Californians have 2 Senators when 22 states combined population is the same as California and they get 44 Senators? Then consider this, their combined economies are about 1/5 the size of California’s. And lastly ask yourself this, should the tax payers of California then on top of that have to subsidize those states? Because they consistently do.

[SeanF]

11 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Nikki Haley has resigned as UN ambassador. I just heard the news, fon’t Know the reason. Did she quit or get fired?

So, who will replace her?  Ivanka, Kanye West, or Judge Roy Moore?

[Week]

15 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

They do deserve a voice, but ask yourself this, should Californians have 2 Senators when 22 states combined population is the same as California and they get 44 Senators? Then consider this, their combined economies are about 1/5 the size of California’s. And lastly ask yourself this, should the tax payers of California then on top of that have to subsidize those states? Because they consistently do.

Frog Eater believes California to be a wretched hive of scum, villainy, 5th largest economy in the world, produces the most food of US states, forward-thinking pollution standards, and a large non-white population and therefore they should not have equal representation. If you disagree with a conservative, you don't deserve power -- there is no logic to support that nonsense which is why the arguments quickly fall apart with any level of common sense.

Alaska, Idaho, and Alabama -- fresh off their success in the bottom third of US states by infant mortality, maternal mortality, education, economic development, etc. ought to be rewarded for their good (/s) stewardship.

eta- Idaho is not as consistently in the bottom tier as other states mentioned, however it is equally irrelevant as the 39th most populous state.

[Morpheus]

26 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Nikki Haley has resigned as UN ambassador. I just heard the news, fon’t Know the reason. Did she quit or get fired?

She is resigning according to the press conference she and Trump are doing right now. They will need to find another interchangeable staunch opponent rights and equality to replace her.

[Lollygag]

18 minutes ago, SeanF said:

So, who will replace her?  Ivanka, Kanye West, or Judge Roy Moore?

Her resignation is effective as of the end of the year. Leaving on good terms. Will be campaigning for Trump and will not run for president in 2020.

MSNBC speculates that she may replace Lindsey Graham if he becomes Attorney General. For someone who aspires to be president, the Senate is a much more visible role than UN Ambassador.

They also speculated that Ivanka might replace her and Haley just really talked up Ivanka and Jared (actually called him a genius) so my money is on one of them if it could be managed. It gave me chills after seeing this on Rachel Maddow last night. 32:22.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtsmNyhp5Kc 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

45 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Nikki Haley has resigned as UN ambassador. I just heard the news, fon’t Know the reason. Did she quit or get fired?

One of the most confusing things about the Trump Administration is that she took the job in the first place. I’d argue that after Sen. Rubio, she was the biggest rising star in the Republican party circa 2015.  

As a Democrat, I would not want to run against her for president.

[Ice Queen]

1 hour ago, Week said:

Frog Eater believes California to be a wretched hive of scum, villainy, 5th largest economy in the world, produces the most food of US states, forward-thinking pollution standards, and a large non-white population and therefore they should not have equal representation. If you disagree with a conservative, you don't deserve power -- there is no logic to support that nonsense which is why the arguments quickly fall apart with any level of common sense.

Alaska, Idaho, and Alabama -- fresh off their success in the bottom third of US states by infant mortality, maternal mortality, education, economic development, etc. ought to be rewarded for their good (/s) stewardship.

eta- Idaho is not as consistently in the bottom tier as other states mentioned, however it is equally irrelevant as the 39th most populous state.

Add Wyoming to that list. More people live in Alaska than Wyoming, and there are countless counties across the US that have larger populations than that entire state. And yet they get equal representation. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Week said:

Frog Eater believes California to be a wretched hive of scum, villainy, 5th largest economy in the world, produces the most food of US states, forward-thinking pollution standards, and a large non-white population and therefore they should not have equal representation. If you disagree with a conservative, you don't deserve power -- there is no logic to support that nonsense which is why the arguments quickly fall apart with any level of common sense.

Alaska, Idaho, and Alabama -- fresh off their success in the bottom third of US states by infant mortality, maternal mortality, education, economic development, etc. ought to be rewarded for their good (/s) stewardship.

eta- Idaho is not as consistently in the bottom tier as other states mentioned, however it is equally irrelevant as the 39th most populous state.

If anything, California is proof the Democrats are simply better at running economies than Republicans. From 1983 through 2011, Republicans ran the state for all but 4 years. As a result, the state was deep in debt. Jerry Brown has ran it for the last eight years and it is now running massive surpluses.

Funny how that taxing the rich thing and developing programs to help the lower classes works.

But still, people just can’t stop voting against their best interests. It’s kind of amazing how many people have been tricked into thinking that giving rich people their money will help their lives………..

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I’ve voted in the 2018 elections.  Voted James Smith for SC governor.  He does have a chance.

[lokisnow]

15 hours ago, Frog Eater said:

Well, lucky for those of us in small states, abolishing the electoral college will require it to be ratified by 2/3 of the states, which wont be happening. This country is more than Los Angeles and New York, and its representation should reflect such. 

Trump got more votes in Los Angeles than he did in Iowa, but those votes and voters do not matter to him.  You're actually disenfranchising more republicans and hurting your allies by supporting an evil and disgusting system like the electoral college.

[Ran]

Ivanka Trump or Jared Kushner strike me as deeply unlikely replacements for Haley, given that they'll face some very uncomfortable questions and document requests from the Democrats during confirmation hearings. Her business in a corrupt Azerbaijani Trump project, his hunting for Chinese and Qatari money, his apparent alliance with MBS in Saudi Arabia, his notorious woes getting his filings cleared away for security clearance, etc.

Don't think either want to be subjected to that.

[argonak]

4 minutes ago, Ran said:

Ivanka Trump or Jared Kushner strike me as deeply unlikely replacements for Haley, given that they'll face some very uncomfortable questions and document requests from the Democrats during confirmation hearings. Her business in a corrupt Azerbaijani Trump project, his hunting for Chinese and Qatari money, his apparent alliance with MBS in Saudi Arabia, his notorious woes getting his filings cleared away for security clearance, etc.

Don't think either want to be subjected to that.

Wait, are we still pretending confirmation hearings matter?

[lokisnow]

good article on a ballot measure in washington

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/9/28/17899804/washington-state-climate-policy-1631-carbon-fee-green-new-deal

What is most notable about this article is the following paragraph:

Quote

The political theory behind revenue-neutral carbon taxes, and 732, is that they have bipartisan appeal. They don’t increase government revenue, they don’t spend money on government-selected interest groups, and they have been endorsed by a number of conservative economists.

They ought to have bipartisan appeal. If Republicans were actually motivated by conservative economic principles, they would have bipartisan appeal. But in practice, they don’t have bipartisan appeal.

What the coalition behind 732 discovered — what one earnest group of would-be bipartisan compromisers after another has discovered, in what is perhaps the most consistent theme of US politics for as long as I’ve been following it — is that Republicans are not, in fact, motivated by conservative economic principles. They are motivated primarily by tribal hostility toward the left and the demographic changes it represents. The institutional Republican Party would sooner saw its own arm off than give the left a “bipartisan” victory on climate change.

 

[Week]

I don't think this has already been posted -- however, much of this echoes what has been said by nearly everyone.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/10/08/the-dark-side-of-american-conservatism-has-taken-over/?utm_term=.c8150072d437

Quote

The ascendance of extreme views, abetted in recent years by Fox News, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin and the tea party movement, increasingly made the House Republican caucus ungovernable. The far-right Freedom Caucus drove House Speaker John A. Boehner into retirement in 2015. His successor, Paul D. Ryan, lasted only three years. Ryan’s retirement signals the final repudiation of an optimistic, inclusive brand of Reaganesque conservatism focused on enhancing economic opportunity at home and promoting democracy and free trade abroad. The Republican Party will now be defined by Trump’s dark, divisive vision, with his depiction of Democrats as America-hating, criminal-coddling traitors, his vilification of the press as the “enemy of the people,” and his ugly invective against Mexicans and Muslims. The extremism that many Republicans of goodwill had been trying to push to the fringe of their party is now its governing ideology.

That’s why I can no longer be a Republican, and in fact wish ill fortune on my former party. I am now convinced that the Republican Party must suffer repeated and devastating defeats beginning in November. It must pay a heavy price for its embrace of white nationalism and know-nothingism. Only if the GOP as it is currently constituted is burned to the ground will there be any chance to build a reasonable center-right party out of the ashes. But that will require undoing the work of decades, not just of the past two years.

 

[Martell Spy]

59 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Add Wyoming to that list. More people live in Alaska than Wyoming, and there are countless counties across the US that have larger populations than that entire state. And yet they get equal representation. 

My family broke down in Wyoming on the way back from Yellowstone in the 80's. It is truly a wasteland. It's like the Road out there.

[Fragile Bird]

I see that speculation about why Haley resigned now centers around two things. First, she's a really sharp cookie and she decided to get out before the mid-terms so that failure doesn't splash on her reputation, including the possibility that if she resigned after the mid-terms and there was a blue wave, she'd be labelled a rat abandoning the ship.

Second, Bolton has muscled into her territory, taking away the strong voice she had at the UN. Tillerson left her alone, Bolton fiercely hates the UN.

And because of that hate, odds are being laid that that hated idiot currently US ambassador to Germany, Richard Grennell, an ardent Trump supporter, is a leading candidate.

[Ice Queen]

22 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

My family broke down in Wyoming on the way back from Yellowstone in the 80's. It is truly a wasteland. It's like the Road out there.

The western part of the state with Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons is simply breathtaking, but once you hit the middle, egads! It's even more desolate than the Dakotas! You can go for hundreds of miles and not see another single living thing.