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Angel Eyes

Viserys’ plan makes no sense.

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How was Viserys planning on taking the Iron Throne with the Dothraki?

  • The Dothraki only respect strength, which Viserys lacks, therefore they won’t listen to him.
  • The Dothraki don’t cross the Narrow Sea, or any type of sea for that matter. How fit for battle will they be if they’re puking out their guts five minutes before making landfall and battle?
  • There are very few houses who are genuinely loyal to the Targaryens anymore and would not rally to his banner.

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1 sure but Viserys thinks he is. Having Daenerys killed would mean that Khal Drogo would be leading the invasion. 

2 This is a fair point that Viserys has probably overlooked, but it isn't actually insurmountable. If he had enough ships and enough charisma to convince them to follow him, it would be a very dangerous invasion. 

3 Again, Viserys believes that many would rise for him. It would more likely be a few, the dothraki would be a great rallying point for the seven kingdoms to join together to fight against. Bare in mind, it was likely Illyrio's original plan to use them as a foreign invasion and have fake Aegon swoop in as a saviour. 

Edited by Makk

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I don't think  it's anything too complicated.  Viserys was willing to work with what he had.  He went begging from one free city to another and haven't found an army.  The Dothraki were his only option.  If the plan had a flaw it is he never took the time to truly understand their culture.  Likewise, Mopatis and Varys were working with what they had.  The Dothraki are the most powerful land army on that planet.  They bring their own problems but the upsides outweigh the negatives.  The people of Westeros don't want to be on the losing side.  They may not like the Dothraki but it's better than losing.  They can always work out a deal.  Everybody knows the Dothraki are not staying.  They are nomadic.  It's not in their culture to stay put in a castle.  Everything will go back to normal as soon as the matter of who will rule is settled.  The Dothraki's role in this plan is to defeat the Baratheons and then they go home. 

All of this is irrelevant at this point.  Princess Daenerys hatched her dragons and conquered Meereen.   Whatever plans Viserys and Mopatis had are no longer important.  What Rhaegar thought of himself is no longer important. 

 

Edited by Silver Bullet 1985

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The Dothraki only respect strength, which Viserys lacks, therefore they won’t listen to him.

I got the impression that the deal was really with Illyrio and he was really calling the shots. Drago just had to humor Viserys.

The Dothraki don’t cross the Narrow Sea, or any type of sea for that matter. How fit for battle will they be if they’re puking out their guts five minutes before making landfall and battle?

Drago was unusually open-minded in general, visionary maybe compared to a lot of Dothraki.  It only took him getting ticked off to make the decision to go to Westeros. Seasickness doesn't have anything to do with past experience on the water. A lot of people get on boats for the first time and don't get sick. By the time they arrive in Westeros, they'd be comfortable except for the few with inner ear problems which don't react well with the waves.

There are very few houses who are genuinely loyal to the Targaryens anymore and would not rally to his banner. 

Varys was to make sure that everyone hated the Lannisters and they'd welcome about any alternative. Hopefully they could manage a good PR campaign for Viserys. He'd've needed it.

 

Edited by Lollygag

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6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

How was Viserys planning on taking the Iron Throne with the Dothraki?

Viserys plan? or Illyrio&Varys plan for Viserys?

 

6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:
  • The Dothraki only respect strength, which Viserys lacks, therefore they won’t listen to him.

I'm sure at hell that Illyrio was aware of it but any plan has some risks

6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:
  • The Dothraki don’t cross the Narrow Sea, or any type of sea for that matter. How fit for battle will they be if they’re puking out their guts five minutes before making landfall and battle?

It is a fair point. Illyrio probably thought that Drogo was strong enough to make them cross the poisoned water.

6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:
  • There are very few houses who are genuinely loyal to the Targaryens anymore and would not rally to his banner.

bingo! This is the point to make Viserys invade with the Dothraki: Nobody will join him in Westeros (except a few lunatics) if the countryside is being raided by hordes of savages. This aims to support a political narrative of the "mad king Aerys son" against "beloved Rhaegar one", to make Aegon the savior of Westeros. With chaos all around, nobody will ask too many questions about his parentage.

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1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

bingo! This is the point to make Viserys invade with the Dothraki: Nobody will join him in Westeros (except a few lunatics) if the countryside is being raided by hordes of savages. This aims to support a political narrative of the "mad king Aerys son" against "beloved Rhaegar one", to make Aegon the savior of Westeros. With chaos all around, nobody will ask too many questions about his parentage.

I like this idea better than mine.

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9 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

How was Viserys planning on taking the Iron Throne with the Dothraki?

  • The Dothraki only respect strength, which Viserys lacks, therefore they won’t listen to him.
  • The Dothraki don’t cross the Narrow Sea, or any type of sea for that matter. How fit for battle will they be if they’re puking out their guts five minutes before making landfall and battle?
  • There are very few houses who are genuinely loyal to the Targaryens anymore and would not rally to his banner.

1. But they also have the gift giving thing... Dany was Viserys' gift to Drogo. In return, Drogo would give Viserys men to invade Westeros. He'd probably also give them a commander with the required strength to lead the men. 

2. Because of superstition. Superstition can be overcome. Dany gets Dothraki to sail from Qarth to Astapor... there's nothing stopping Dothraki getting on boats, except their own beliefs, which can be changed. Also, they'll wait five minutes after making landfall, so the nausea is gone, before they start the invasion proper. 

3. We don't know who is secretly loyal to the Targs, or open to being loyal to them. And, as others have said, Varys' plan involved major upheaval in Westeros, followed by the arrival of Aegon VI the Saviour. 

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Viserys was a mad idiot who took more after his father then his mother. He was only young when his family lost the Iron Throne, and the only thing he really knows about ruling is from what he saw his father doing. 

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12 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

How was Viserys planning on taking the Iron Throne with the Dothraki?

  • The Dothraki only respect strength, which Viserys lacks, therefore they won’t listen to him.
  • The Dothraki don’t cross the Narrow Sea, or any type of sea for that matter. How fit for battle will they be if they’re puking out their guts five minutes before making landfall and battle?
  • There are very few houses who are genuinely loyal to the Targaryens anymore and would not rally to his banner.

Of course it's a stupid plan, but Viserys was a stupid guy. That was the whole point: get Vis to lead a Dothraki invasion right after the great houses have bloodied themselves in an ill-conceived civil war, then have fAegon and Griff ride in and save the realm. 

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12 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

How was Viserys planning on taking the Iron Throne with the Dothraki?

  • The Dothraki only respect strength, which Viserys lacks, therefore they won’t listen to him.
  • The Dothraki don’t cross the Narrow Sea, or any type of sea for that matter. How fit for battle will they be if they’re puking out their guts five minutes before making landfall and battle?
  • There are very few houses who are genuinely loyal to the Targaryens anymore and would not rally to his banner.

I know, right? It's almost as if poor Viserys wasn't as great as he thought he was. Despite GRRM's best efforts to portray him as wise, royal, and generally a very stable genius.

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Yep, as others have said, Viserys had some ideas about himself that weren't grounded in reality. He was the rightful ruler, so he has the strength of his claim that others should respect. The Dothraki hadn't crossed the sea before, but he made a deal with them. In his mind, the Dothraki are his and he will tell them to go. He's been told by flatterers and snake oil salesmen that the people of Westeros yearn for a Targaryen restoration. As the poster above me said, he's a very stable genius.

Edited by Gertrude

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I think one of the main reasons why Illyrio wanted Viserys to stay with him instead of going with Dany after the wedding.  During their travels, the Dothraki saw first hand what Viserys was, and Illyrio knew that would backfire. 

I keep thinking that there was a different plan in store for Dany and Viserys maybe one which included FAegon, or maybe Illyrio just wanted to get rid of them by giving them to Drogo.  To rely on Drogo to keep his end of the bargain as the linchpin of this great plan to retake the 7 Kingdoms seems to really risky

 

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14 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

How was Viserys planning on taking the Iron Throne with the Dothraki?

  • The Dothraki only respect strength, which Viserys lacks, therefore they won’t listen to him.
  • The Dothraki don’t cross the Narrow Sea, or any type of sea for that matter. How fit for battle will they be if they’re puking out their guts five minutes before making landfall and battle?
  • There are very few houses who are genuinely loyal to the Targaryens anymore and would not rally to his banner.

how indeed? That is the point

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17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

How was Viserys planning on taking the Iron Throne with the Dothraki?

  • The Dothraki only respect strength, which Viserys lacks, therefore they won’t listen to him.
  • The Dothraki don’t cross the Narrow Sea, or any type of sea for that matter. How fit for battle will they be if they’re puking out their guts five minutes before making landfall and battle?
  • There are very few houses who are genuinely loyal to the Targaryens anymore and would not rally to his banner.

Bear in mind hes a moron

•he doesnt fully understand them no he prob thinks that drogo will assign a force that will follow him as payment for his sister

•i think plan wasnt for battle right away ....make landfall on friendly soil first

•he doesnt know that he still thinks half the realm has his back, reach and dorne at least

 

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I believe Viserys was living in his own fairy tale. He thought Drogo would be submissive to him like young Dany had been. He suffered as an  exiled child/teenager and thought the world was finally correcting itself with Illryio's and the Dothraki's support. In his mind the logical next step for the universe was to finally give him his rightful Throne back.

I think In his mind Targaryens=dragons, conquers and warriors. Viserys=Targaryen, how could he as the the last dragon possibly fail? Constantly telling anyone who would listen that he was dragon wasn't just to try to impress, intimidate or annoy them, he truly believed he was a dragon-human hybrid superior to all other men. IIRC we don't ever hear about him sparring or doing anything else that would help him survive a war, I guess he thought it wasn't needed and his destiny was predetermined.  When he talks to Jorah he tells him how things will be after he takes Westeros as if him dying in battle is not even a possibility.

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As others have said: he was being heavily manipulated by Illyrio, a concept that was established in the first Dany chapter. To be fair, Viserys was expecting that major houses like the Tyrells, Martells, and Greyjoys would join him (the Reach has more men than many other kingdoms combined). These ideas were likely instigated by Illyrio, who potentially might have had a plan to get these houses to follow through. Such a major civil war between Viserys and King Robert would have left the country weak enough for Aegon to enter with the Golden Company at the end without as much of a challenge. They either failed to account for the Dothraki's disinterest in such a war or for Viserys getting himself killed.

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Illyrio knew Viserys was an idiot and would say or do something stupid.He and Varys were counting on it in fact.They just never considered that Dany would become a conqueror and if the new and old gods are good she'll be headin to Westros in the next 2 books.

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The plan was Ilyrio's and Varys'. They weren't planning on seating Viserys on the throne, they wanted to seat YG. Maybe they were planning on using the Dothraki along with the golden company. Dany complicated that situation for them.

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