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Shows like Discovery of Witches?


Calibandar

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On 10/13/2018 at 3:13 PM, Zorral said:

Whoever said the Harkness novels are awful is wrong.  They are very smart books in a variety of ways.  

Whoever said that is particularly wrong when one compares and contrasts the Harkness novels with the enormity of real drek being published in the genre(s) and made into television or movies.

I, of course, due to location, haven't been able to see the ITV version, but I'm beginning to think that somebody on these threads has a real hate on for it that's personal in a way, of course, none of can know. But considering that others with whom I've often concurred in watching opinions have more positive things to say -- leaves one wondering.  :cheers: :read:

I of course am prejudiced in the other way, firmly believing these are among the smartest fantasy novels written in a very long time.  Plus! all that history of science and art and just plain old history, is presented with great intelligence.  One will seldom see a representation of Queen Elizabeth as terrible and brilliant as the Queen was -- utterly terrifying.

Maybe it’s because of big plot holes and continuity problems in the books, mostly related to magic, I thought that Harkness either didn’t know where she was going with the magic in the first book or changed her mind. The history stuff was pretty cool though. I haven’t seen the TV show either, but I hope they fixed the magic issues.

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55 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

Maybe it’s because of big plot holes and continuity problems in the books, mostly related to magic, I thought that Harkness either didn’t know where she was going with the magic in the first book or changed her mind. The history stuff was pretty cool though. I haven’t seen the TV show either, but I hope they fixed the magic issues.

Hmmm.  I didn't see plot holes in the books.  But then, I read them as they were published, with quite a bit of time in between readings then, not at a single go.

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23 hours ago, Zorral said:

Magicians is just batshyte crazy, and I love that.  Don't think the books were, though.  which makes the batshyte even more fun, because I think the author really believed in his books in a way that the television writers -- just don't.

That's why I love it, too.  There's nothing quite like it on tv, and I'll be very sad when it's over.

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2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Hmmm.  I didn't see plot holes in the books.  But then, I read them as they were published, with quite a bit of time in between readings then, not at a single go.

I read them without much time in between as I checked them out from my library’s ebook app.

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Episode 3 - what is going on with Diana's hair? How is that done? Kind of a...looped ponytail? I am obsessed with this now and keep trying to do stuff with my hair and then photograph the back of my head. I'm failing.

Oh this show is fine. Goofy but fun. Kind of giving off Highlander vibes but with - sadly - less effective melodrama. Or maybe just because Matthew Goode ever so slightly resembles Peter Wingfield. Also this is clearly a romance at heart and nothing will happen really until they netflix and chill and pick out some curtains.

 

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Tried some other shows but IMO this series is a cut above these others.

Angel and Supernatural to me felt very teen-focused. I thought Angel would have that a lot less than Buffy but still, it's clearly a teen series. Supernatural looked a bit too campy.

Tried True Blood again but just found it so silly, not my style.

Worst of all I found Being Human, the Brit shows, absolutely woeful and frankly hilariously bad.

Still have to try The Originals. Will give Preacher a go as well.

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7 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Tried some other shows but IMO this series is a cut above these others.

Angel and Supernatural to me felt very teen-focused. I thought Angel would have that a lot less than Buffy but still, it's clearly a teen series. Supernatural looked a bit too campy.

Tried True Blood again but just found it so silly, not my style.

Worst of all I found Being Human, the Brit shows, absolutely woeful and frankly hilariously bad.

Still have to try The Originals. Will give Preacher a go as well.

The Originals is only Vampire Diaries moved to New Orleans.  Sorta.  The geography is purely ludicrous, just starting with everyone talking about "The bayou!" as if there is only a one and only bayou in Louisiana, or even inside New Orleans.  Everything is ludicrous, for that matter.

BTW, in time, I guess for Discovery going up in England and later in January here on Sundance Now - Shudder, Harkness published volume 4 back in September:

https://ew.com/tv/2018/10/05/a-discovery-of-witches-premiere-date/

-- which, like book 11 in Cornwell's Saxon Stories -- I knew nothing about.  Ordered it now.

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Yeah, I've also been looking and drawing a blank for something that hits the same vibe of relatively high production value and internal seriousness (which kinda takes out Angel and I guess Supernatural and the teen stuff, which honestly I think are like better shows but too self aware and deconstructive, even) with like operatic high camp of worldbuilding and relationship drama.

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I'm really struggling to care about the super predictable fairy tale romance element of this show. After a few more eps I am sort of enjoying the interaction between the witches/vampires/demons (which is why I am still watching). Even Diana's personal story is reasonably ok, although it's also very traditional/obvious. I just find the romance really vapid and dull.

I don't generally watch shows with the whole fairy tale prince trope at the centre of them so I find it hard to think of shows which are similar to this for the purposes of recommendation. True Blood was OTT but the first two, possibly three seasons were ok. The second season I found screamingly funny actually. It didn't take itself too seriously - which puts it at odds with this show of course.

 

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Fox have announced they are having another go at adapting the Dresden files and they've realised that a good start of adapting the success of the books to screen is to actually adapt the books more faithfully and not do 1episode = 1 case. 

I think this would tick a lot of boxes for those looking for shows similar to DOW. Just a bit of wait is all

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Quote

 

Yeah, I've also been looking and drawing a blank for something that hits the same vibe of relatively high production value and internal seriousness

 

Ultraviolet, the 1998 UK mini-series (6 episodes and done), is this down to a tee. It's also great for how it avoids and inverts the cliches of vampire lore, and doesn't get bogged down in any of the traditional romance stuff. +2 points for Idris Elba being one of the supporting characters (and nailing two of the best vampire kills I've ever seen on screen). No magic though.

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I quite liked the first 3 Seasons of True Blood, they were quite funny.

I think I’d really like a outlook where centuries/millennia old vampires(plus witches, demons etc) were actually acting their age and ruling countries and manipulating humanity not mainly being concerned with getting their rocks off with someone old enough to be their great x20 grandson or granddaughter.

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12 hours ago, Isis said:

I'm really struggling to care about the super predictable fairy tale romance element of this show. After a few more eps I am sort of enjoying the interaction between the witches/vampires/demons (which is why I am still watching). Even Diana's personal story is reasonably ok, although it's also very traditional/obvious. I just find the romance really vapid and dull.

OMG that's all I'm there for - the creature politics are kind of ridiculous and I can't figure out why I should care, but the absurd, absurd, vapid, nonsensical romance stuff and family drama bits I find weirdly enjoyable. 'I've known you for a week but we are fated to be in love forever and I'm chill with that'. Gaze moodily into the distance. Sweeping shot of Oxford spires or New England foliage. Winsome huddle into fuzzy blue sweater.

Apparently exactly what my brain needs right now.

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11 hours ago, Lord Sidious said:

I quite liked the first 3 Seasons of True Blood, they were quite funny.

I think I’d really like a outlook where centuries/millennia old vampires(plus witches, demons etc) were actually acting their age and ruling countries and manipulating humanity not mainly being concerned with getting their rocks off with someone old enough to be their great x20 grandson or granddaughter.

You would think immortality would help with world domination although I guess it's hard to stay out of the spotlight.

I don't really think there's an issue with the great-grandchildren daughter claim here (I do think that phrase is often used to make something appear worse eg the scandal in the UK about Russel Brand making sexual innuendos about Andrew Sachs grandaugher was deliberately used to make people have an image of someone who was a teen/younger, while she was actually 23).

If someone is in their late 20s/30s and the immortal is frozen as under 40 then in fairness an immortal is always going to be in a situation where others are a lot younger than them. It's not like any of these vampires come across as behaving like enlightened humans despite centuries of experience and memories. The problem with many vampire shows/stories is they tend to go for people (usually women) who are still at school which is creepy (and often illegal) irrespective of how old you are never mind being immortal or not. That isn't the case in this show as someone who has a PhD/professorship is probably going to be around 30 and therefore should be fully capable of giving consent. Being a show set around a university is different from when set within  a high school. Unless a glamour is involved which is a different creepy can of worms in vampire mythology.

The fact we rarely see immortals hanging out with pensioners suggests they are all very shallow because if they genuinely loved someone they'd stay with them until the end (unless the mortal partner drove them away). The highlander and true blood were actually quite good in this respect in showing long relationships between mortals and immortals and the various problems involved.

Like others have said True blood started out really well as a trashy OTT take on vampires that had a wry sense of humour and self-deprecation. I don't know which season started or ended in the fairy realm with sookie having balls of magic fired at her but that's where it went downhill for me and I don't think I managed the final two seasons at all.

11 hours ago, Datepalm said:

OMG that's all I'm there for - the creature politics are kind of ridiculous and I can't figure out why I should care, but the absurd, absurd, vapid, nonsensical romance stuff and family drama bits I find weirdly enjoyable. 'I've known you for a week but we are fated to be in love forever and I'm chill with that'. Gaze moodily into the distance. Sweeping shot of Oxford spires or New England foliage. Winsome huddle into fuzzy blue sweater.

Apparently exactly what my brain needs right now.

It sounds to me like the show seems to be doing the romance/mythology just well enough to keep fans of one aspect on board even if it seems to polarize opinion. That's a decent way of keeping viewers mildly entertained but dangerous in such a competitive market. Although I guess there isn't a great deal of urban fantasy specifically on TV at the moment. This show seems more liked than the new Sabrina anyhow.

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14 hours ago, Datepalm said:

OMG that's all I'm there for - the creature politics are kind of ridiculous and I can't figure out why I should care, but the absurd, absurd, vapid, nonsensical romance stuff and family drama bits I find weirdly enjoyable. 'I've known you for a week but we are fated to be in love forever and I'm chill with that'. Gaze moodily into the distance. Sweeping shot of Oxford spires or New England foliage. Winsome huddle into fuzzy blue sweater.

Apparently exactly what my brain needs right now.

Yeah, it does a good job of it for sure. I, too, really enjoy all of the locations and scenery. It certainly looks pretty on all fronts.

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8 hours ago, red snow said:

If someone is in their late 20s/30s and the immortal is frozen as under 40 then in fairness an immortal is always going to be in a situation where others are a lot younger than them. It's not like any of these vampires come across as behaving like enlightened humans despite centuries of experience and memories. The problem with many vampire shows/stories is they tend to go for people (usually women) who are still at school which is creepy (and often illegal) irrespective of how old you are never mind being immortal or not. That isn't the case in this show as someone who has a PhD/professorship is probably going to be around 30 and therefore should be fully capable of giving consent. Being a show set around a university is different from when set within  a high school. Unless a glamour is involved which is a different creepy can of worms in vampire mythology.

Meanwhile I'm just annoyed that she's on a tenure clock at Yale AND angling for a position at Oxford, but has dropped it all to go galavanting around a bunch of old houses in some countryside - and isn't crazy stressed that she's missed a paper revision deadline or freaking out from the exactly 1,975 emails in her inbox demanding to know what's happening with the conference she's organizing which she doesn't have time for anyway.

Like, they show Matthew pulling out a laptop in Consuming Mother Electra Complex Creepy Gallic Gloom Castle because he has to get some work done, but he's presumably got tenure at Oxford, so whatevs. She's the one under pressure, is my point, which has totally disappeared since episode 1, where she's all busy-successful-professional, mucketting about in university politics, and instead she now might as well be a teenager, with no responsibilities or shred of an independent life trajectory left. Which is annoying. But also silly and watchable.

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44 minutes ago, Datepalm said:

Meanwhile I'm just annoyed that she's on a tenure clock at Yale AND angling for a position at Oxford, but has dropped it all to go galavanting around a bunch of old houses in some countryside - and isn't crazy stressed that she's missed a paper revision deadline or freaking out from the exactly 1,975 emails in her inbox demanding to know what's happening with the conference she's organizing which she doesn't have time for anyway.

Like, they show Matthew pulling out a laptop in Consuming Mother Electra Complex Creepy Gallic Gloom Castle because he has to get some work done, but he's presumably got tenure at Oxford, so whatevs. She's the one under pressure, is my point, which has totally disappeared since episode 1, where she's all busy-successful-professional, mucketting about in university politics, and instead she now might as well be a teenager, with no responsibilities or shred of an independent life trajectory left. Which is annoying. But also silly and watchable.

You sound like someone speaking from experience. If she was an aimless postdoc it might be more plausible. 

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Not yet (or perhaps ever), but all my friends are stressed out academic-job-market, culture-of-productivity post/ongoing-trauma people.

Actually it looks (Wikipedia...) like she has tenure at Yale at the start of the show (which is...far fetched, but you can just crunch the numbers to make it come out and assume she's in her early thirties, since I find the idea of a romance heroine who is over 32 far less likely than a tenured Yale professor under 32.) And is now on a sabbatical or something at Oxford, which she's using to sniff around for a possible professorship there instead. (Yale is probably pretty miffed about it.) So that explains why there's not a class that's waiting for her to grade their papers or something and why she can kind of drop stuff without stressing about it too much - an appointment at Oxford might be no longer a serious option since she's skipped town and forgot about that paper she was supposed to be writing up (which is also silly, like that one paper in a few weeks is going to be pretty negligble over the whole profile, unless its both wildly groundbreaking and maybe a major change of direction for her), but, she's tenured at Yale so, shrug, I guess.

(If she was a postdoc, or pre-tenure, then she would be more constrained, in a way - she'd be in a tricky, unstable and relatively short span of time where she's got to cement herself as a scholar so that she can get hired/tenured (much less somewhere like Yale/Oxford) and every paper published, grant won, panel organized  etc, is building up her profile and reputation in a really competitive field, and being, like, eh, I'm going to chill for a while with my new boyfriend and like study magic would probably drive her nuts because she's been socialized into this academic culture. Of course, if she was a tenured professor, she'd have a million colleagues and students knocking at her door waiting for her contributions to the other thousand projects she's working on, because...academic culture.)

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9 hours ago, red snow said:

You would think immortality would help with world domination although I guess it's hard to stay out of the spotlight.

I don't really think there's an issue with the great-grandchildren daughter claim here (I do think that phrase is often used to make something appear worse eg the scandal in the UK about Russel Brand making sexual innuendos about Andrew Sachs grandaugher was deliberately used to make people have an image of someone who was a teen/younger, while she was actually 23).

If someone is in their late 20s/30s and the immortal is frozen as under 40 then in fairness an immortal is always going to be in a situation where others are a lot younger than them. It's not like any of these vampires come across as behaving like enlightened humans despite centuries of experience and memories. The problem with many vampire shows/stories is they tend to go for people (usually women) who are still at school which is creepy (and often illegal) irrespective of how old you are never mind being immortal or not. That isn't the case in this show as someone who has a PhD/professorship is probably going to be around 30 and therefore should be fully capable of giving consent. Being a show set around a university is different from when set within  a high school. Unless a glamour is involved which is a different creepy can of worms in vampire mythology.

The fact we rarely see immortals hanging out with pensioners suggests they are all very shallow because if they genuinely loved someone they'd stay with them until the end (unless the mortal partner drove them away). The highlander and true blood were actually quite good in this respect in showing long relationships between mortals and immortals and the various problems involved.

Like others have said True blood started out really well as a trashy OTT take on vampires that had a wry sense of humour and self-deprecation. I don't know which season started or ended in the fairy realm with sookie having balls of magic fired at her but that's where it went downhill for me and I don't think I managed the final two seasons at all.

It sounds to me like the show seems to be doing the romance/mythology just well enough to keep fans of one aspect on board even if it seems to polarize opinion. That's a decent way of keeping viewers mildly entertained but dangerous in such a competitive market. Although I guess there isn't a great deal of urban fantasy specifically on TV at the moment. This show seems more liked than the new Sabrina anyhow.

I think maybe my point didn’t come across quite as I intended, I didn’t really mean it merely from a physical age/attraction standpoint as much- it someone is immortal and in their 20s/30s then dating someone who appears a similar age would be pretty normal in my opinion.

I guess I meant more that if someone was 1500 years old they’d have seen so much and have such a different outlook on life having had so much life experience that they’d surely find most humans-especially current ones in thier late teens,20s or 30s very infantile and childish.

I’m 30 now, and feel I have a very different outlook on things than when I was 18.

If I were a 1500 year old vampire, in all honesty I’d probably only want a relationship with another vampire, although I’d probably be ok with a few centuries age gap, I’m not that conservative :P.

 

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