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The Witcher on Netflix 2: Man of steel and silver


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1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Gads I hate that bard.  Was it Helena who said this was Xena with a bigger budget?  She's right, especially with the retelling of all these fairy tales, myths, folk lore etc.  Except that Xena did more with less -- and it wasn't male gazed like this is.  Why in the world did Yennefer's breasts have to be exposed during the entire operation that was to make her beautiful?  That was all so weird and creepy, but the whole thing pretty much is.

 

I made the Xena comment. It completely clicked for me in the episode with  ...

Spoiler

 

... the djinn. Geralt and the bard randomly meet after doing their own separate things. The bard is seriously injured, but the answer is actually fairly simple and he was never really in danger. Yennefer had a pretty cohesive storyline til now, but this is where she felt plopped into the Geralt adventure of the week. The joke at the end was Geralt wanting sleep and that felt VERY much like the ending of a short story. The next episode is the dragon one and that cements Yennefer as a Geralt side-kick. Geralt maybe loves Yennefer now? I never bought that the traveler (dragon) died when he fell - that screamed twist. Oh, and the hedgehog knight was (although plot relevant) super cringy monster of the week quota.

And you pick the operation to complain about the male gaze? I don't mind random nudity, especially if the story tries to justify it even a little. The operation I can totally buy, especially since it involved a hysterectomy (but I would have bought it even without that). I was rolling my eyes at the illusion of naked women in the wizard's tower and the orgy at the mayor's. Those were plot relevant how?

 

Below is sort of spoilery, but not specific.

Anyway, I don't think it's a mess, but I do think it's messy. I'm not really invested in these characters. Geralt is Geralt and he does a good job of carrying the thing even with the limitations of his personality. Ciri is a damsel in distress and I can only watch her run from danger to danger so many times. What was the point of the elf boy? I'm guessing he comes back into it at some point, but right now he's pointless. Yennefer went from being interesting to a side-kick to sort of interesting again? I don't know - I wasn't completely sure of the stakes at the end or why it mattered other than people were fighting because that's what people do. I thought she was inconsistent and I don't really get her. Am I supposed to like her, cause I kind of don't. She willingly gave up what she is lamenting the loss of now so 'they took it' is willful blindness on her part. I might feel more sorry for her if she had time to show me why she regrets that decision now. Yeah, the show technically spells it out, but it was just exposition and I didn't feel it.

And how did Yennefer's first lesson of magic not show up again except for a little bit at the end with a random sorceress? Yennefer and Frangelica were doing a whole hell of a lot more with no downside.

It' was ok, and I'd probably watch the second season, but it seems pretty shallow right now. That's fine, but I didn't know what to expect and it took me a while to place the tone they were going for and it still feels inconsistent. Do they want to be Xena, or do they want it to be a more cohesive drama? I'm not sure I know and I'm not sure they know.

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Its a mixed bag for me. Up and down. The dialogue is all over the place in quality. Same with the CGI and fight scenes. 

Hopefully season 2, if there is one, is better. 

Henry Cavill is solid though as are the actresses the playing Ciri and Yen. 


I felt somethings were too rushed and it was jumping all over the place story wise which really made it jarring and hard to really get into everything. It still was entertaining, but I was hoping for more.
 

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1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

I made the Xena comment. It completely clicked for me in the episode with  ...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

... the djinn. Geralt and the bard randomly meet after doing their own separate things. The bard is seriously injured, but the answer is actually fairly simple and he was never really in danger. Yennefer had a pretty cohesive storyline til now, but this is where she felt plopped into the Geralt adventure of the week. The joke at the end was Geralt wanting sleep and that felt VERY much like the ending of a short story. The next episode is the dragon one and that cements Yennefer as a Geralt side-kick. Geralt maybe loves Yennefer now? I never bought that the traveler (dragon) died when he fell - that screamed twist. Oh, and the hedgehog knight was (although plot relevant) super cringy monster of the week quota.

And you pick the operation to complain about the male gaze? I don't mind random nudity, especially if the story tries to justify it even a little. The operation I can totally buy, especially since it involved a hysterectomy (but I would have bought it even without that). I was rolling my eyes at the illusion of naked women in the wizard's tower and the orgy at the mayor's. Those were plot relevant how?

 

Below is sort of spoilery, but not specific.

Anyway, I don't think it's a mess, but I do think it's messy. I'm not really invested in these characters. Geralt is Geralt and he does a good job of carrying the thing even with the limitations of his personality. Ciri is a damsel in distress and I can only watch her run from danger to danger so many times. What was the point of the elf boy? I'm guessing he comes back into it at some point, but right now he's pointless. Yennefer went from being interesting to a side-kick to sort of interesting again? I don't know - I wasn't completely sure of the stakes at the end or why it mattered other than people were fighting because that's what people do. I thought she was inconsistent and I don't really get her. Am I supposed to like her, cause I kind of don't. She willingly gave up what she is lamenting the loss of now so 'they took it' is willful blindness on her part. I might feel more sorry for her if she had time to show me why she regrets that decision now. Yeah, the show technically spells it out, but it was just exposition and I didn't feel it.

And how did Yennefer's first lesson of magic not show up again except for a little bit at the end with a random sorceress? Yennefer and Frangelica were doing a whole hell of a lot more with no downside.

It' was ok, and I'd probably watch the second season, but it seems pretty shallow right now. That's fine, but I didn't know what to expect and it took me a while to place the tone they were going for and it still feels inconsistent. Do they want to be Xena, or do they want it to be a more cohesive drama? I'm not sure I know and I'm not sure they know.

Your question about Yen and Geralt and their relationship is answered unclearly (in the books too), but becomes more clear over time. I anticipate the show will reveal why, but if you're curious...(this is based on the story in the book)

Spoiler

why Geralt loves Yen is tied to the wish Geralt made.

 

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Watched episode one.

The acting is frequently bad, the writing is frequently awkward with the quality changing scene-to-scene, the directing feels stiff and bland, and the whole thing is disjointed and, at times, hard to follow. Not really sure if the next episodes will improve it much. The battle scene was hilariously awful. 

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3 hours ago, Zorral said:

I've never read the books etc., and I have no idea what is supposed to be going on, as with the scene of sorcerous accension.  Why are they now eels, and what are they doing? Why isn't Yennefer one of them?

That's not from the books, that's the showrunner's original invention. However, to me the situation looked clear enough: the girls-turned-eels aren't doing anything, really. They weren't the successful ones, they were the failures. They will live eel life in the eel pond, with their magic powering Aretuza. Matrix-like.

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

I was rolling my eyes at the illusion of naked women in the wizard's tower and the orgy at the mayor's. Those were plot relevant how?

The tits in Stregobor's tower have the justification of actually being there in the original material. Stregobor had locked himself in a "first-class illusion" of his liking. The orgy? No idea.

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1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

The tits in Stregobor's tower have the justification of actually being there in the original material. Stregobor had locked himself in a "first-class illusion" of his liking. The orgy? No idea.

Just because it's in the original doesn't make it a good idea. If there was any justification other than BOOBS, then I'd roll with it. It's not like it's lacking plausible opportunities to add nudity. It just gives me Boris Vallejo vibes. (to be specific, that vibe - for me - is technically beautiful, but overly gratuitous. When I was younger and cutting my teeth on fantasy, this type of art was rampant and made me question if it was for me.)

 

Random anecdote: Everytime the name Yennefer or Yen is said it takes me out of it a little. My name is Jennifer and in Polish, the J sounds like a Y, so it's basically just that. I'm sure a Celtic name sounds exotic to a Pole, but I'm not accustomed to that name being used in a fantasy setting. Guenivere, sure, but Yennefer is too close to home.

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2 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

Your question about Yen and Geralt and their relationship is answered unclearly (in the books too), but becomes more clear over time. I anticipate the show will reveal why, but if you're curious...(this is based on the story in the book)

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why Geralt loves Yen is tied to the wish Geralt made.

 

I've not even seen half the episodes yet ... but the monster of the week and then retelling fairy and folk tales, it also started feel rather "Once Upon A Time"ish or "Grimmish" -- though I think I watched parts of the first two seasons of the first one and got bored, and never looked at Grimm at all.

So I kinda wonder if there's a pay-off to continued watching?  Well, yah, to watch Cavill, I guess, and a couple of other actors.  I guess I really do like Cavill as an actor!

1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

That's not from the books, that's the showrunner's original invention. However, to me the situation looked clear enough: the girls-turned-eels aren't doing anything, really. They weren't the successful ones, they were the failures. They will live eel life in the eel pond, with their magic powering Aretuza. Matrix-like.

Huh.  I had gotten the impression these were among those who passed.  It sure wasn't clear.

As for the hysterectomy, um in a real operating theater, her chest would have been covered.  There was NO reason for this. 

I did find the books, whatever, unreadable, due to the prose and what appeared to me, at this point -- probably even when they began to be published, at least in English -- I wouldn't have finished reading them either, because so much of the 'borrowing' from the classics is so overt, as to be cliche, at best stereotype.  In the series, the actors are the ones who are saving it from that, and the actors only -- in my opinion.

Still, if people like it, that's great, because if this works, maybe it will open the way for something more along lines I like.  :)

But ... I'm still making a face at Netflix for not giving us season 3 of Polo, just like HBO not allowing a season 3 of Rome!  While that ... that ... whatever it is called Vikings gets how many gdd seasons?  Life is just wrong sometimes!

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Huh.  I had gotten the impression these were among those who passed.  It sure wasn't clear.

They were told they had passed and were going on to the next step, so they wouldn't cause a fuss about being turned into eels to live out their lives as conduits of magic.

I think the "reason" for her being naked was that after the turning of her uterus into a component of his magic powder, he was going to paint those elder runes or whatever they were over the various areas of her body that required magical correction.

As I understand it, in the books the sorceresses use a mix of both magical plastic surgery and glamour to make themselves look as beautiful as they desire. Geralt studies Yenn at some point and starts to see through the glamour, realizing her nose is a bit long and her chin a little receded and other minor aesthetic defects.

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31 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Just because it's in the original doesn't make it a good idea. If there was any justification other than BOOBS, then I'd roll with it. It's not like it's lacking plausible opportunities to add nudity. It just gives me Boris Vallejo vibes. (to be specific, that vibe - for me - is technically beautiful, but overly gratuitous. When I was younger and cutting my teeth on fantasy, this type of art was rampant and made me question if it was for me.)

It should serve as part of Stregobor's characterization (dude literally locks himself in a tower painted with his idea of a perfect world), but if it didn't work, then it didn't work. Maybe it would with some additional dialogue, a wise-ass comment from Geralt perhaps? 

Just as they could have dedicated half a dozen additional lines to flesh out the conflict between Stregobor and Renfri (in the books, Geralt had a very good reason for slaughtering Renfri's men - in the show, it doesn't appear that way).

31 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Random anecdote: Everytime the name Yennefer or Yen is said it takes me out of it a little. My name is Jennifer and in Polish, the J sounds like a Y, so it's basically just that. I'm sure a Celtic name sounds exotic to a Pole, but I'm not accustomed to that name being used in a fantasy setting. Guenivere, sure, but Yennefer is too close to home.

English isn't my first language, but I imagine Jennifer with a Y is more or less on par with Gerald with a T. :)

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I finished this... And as I said, now we can stop comparing it to "Game of Thrones" and start with "Legend of the Seeker" and "The Shannara Chronicles" comparisons. So, what happened here is beyond me...

You have a main star in a man who actively pursued the role, who is passionate and enthusiastic about the role. You got incredibly small window to fill the gap "Game of Thrones" left. You have incredibly sexy, well written, gritty fantasy, which seems to be the elements they have been looking for without properly thinking what'll they do with them.

Below all the bad dialogues and terrible acting (I am sorry for Cavill, but he was doing a great work and the rest of the cast simply dropped the ball. Thank the God for the horse!) , below sometimes questionable CGI and artistic decisions, there is a great story, but they never get to that. They get close to the moments or real depth and then they just decide to step back. It is such a pity.

Also, the sexposition in this surpassed Game of Thrones, if that was even possible.  

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54 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

I've just finished episode 6, and really, what it is coming down to for me is that season is mostly a prologue. It's not as good as I was hoping for, but I am for sure enjoying it.

That's possible for sure.  First season of Buffy rather comes to mind as some other things.

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I have read the books but I haven't played any of the games. I'm on episode 5. I'm liking it so far!

The problem, IMO, is the three different timelines. They are too confusing and unneeded. They could have just linearly told the story.

And the other problem is that the original written material was the Witcher short stories which are all "monster of the week" types. People are getting confused about how the different monsters tie up with the main story... but the monsters don't even matter. Like, I know someone who thought the striga was Ciri's mother. I mean, since they surely wouldn't be showing a princess who isn't related to the main character who is also a princess, right? And is Renfri Ciri's other grandmother? Stuff like that. It seems random that there are random monsters and royalty running around who are not related to the main plot. If they can even identify the main plot at this point.

Sorry, I can't seem to master how to hide spoilers. How do I look at the code instead of the WYSWYG post editor?

Anyway, no spoilers here or just very minor background spoilers.

On 12/20/2019 at 10:12 PM, Corvinus said:
 
 
 
 
On 12/20/2019 at 10:12 PM, Corvinus said:

 

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Geralt's part in this episode was solid, and the fight choreography at the end was excellent. I've only read 3 of the short stories, so it was nice that Geralt's stuff covered one of them. The other part with Ciri was full of cliches, but not all bad. Still, right now Nilfgaard seems to be 100% cliched villainous. If the Nilfgaardians butcher everyone they conquer, do they rule over ash and bones? Explains why their armor is so shitty looking.

 


Sometimes they kill everyone because they are clearing the land for Nilfgaardian farmers/settlers. It's in the books.

Minor spoiler: Not all the "Nilfgaardians" shown are even Nilfgaardians.  Many of them are from vassal states. They are like the Roman Empire. They don't kill everyone in the entire world, just everyone in certain places where they want to go scorched earth. IRL, the Roman general Scipio Aemilianus Africanus allegedly plowed over and sowed the city of Carthage with salt after defeating it.

As for the hysterectomy, um in a real operating theater, her chest would have been covered.  There was NO reason for this.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
2 hours ago, Zorral said:

As for the hysterectomy, um in a real operating theater, her chest would have been covered.  There was NO reason for this. 

It's a full-body enchantment. He straightened her spine and face, plus beautified everything. The hysterectomy was just one bit and, yes, her boobies most definitely were bared for the full-body enchantment. It's actually canon in the books that she had her boobs massively enchanted. Depending on the timeline she's 50-100+ old but has large boobs that look like a 17-year-old's.

 

 
 
 
1
Quote

‘You must have used an entire barrel of mandrake elixir on what I can see, Yennefer,’ the bard laughed. ‘Your skin’s like a sixteen-year-old’s, dammit.’ (quote from Sword of Destiny and it's about her boobs specifically. Mandrake elixir is a beautifying potion)

 
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I can't seem to edit my post above but I can edit my other posts. I've also found out how to do spoilers. I apologize for the format mess above.

Anyway, to stay on topic. As of episode 5:

Loving Cavill as Geralt. He does the best with the cringey dialogue; he looks the part; his sword fights are great.

MyAnna Buring is likewise great. Someone said she's like Aes Sedai from WoT and now I can't unsee her as Green Ajah!

Anya Chalotra is okay but not quite there yet. I want more bitchy, hard, and just downright mean Yennefer. This isn't entirely her fault though since her dialogue is very un-Yennefer-like. For example, in the first meeting show Yennefer says "I thought you would have horns or fangs" and then Geralt mansplains magic stuff, rofl. Whereas book Yennefer was like "who are you?" then attacks him when he doesn't immediately answer.

Yennefer knows what witchers look like because she's a sorceress. She's like a post-doc in magic stuff. Yeah, I get that she was trying to needle Geralt but that is too mild compared to trying to assert dominance by trying to throw him across the room with a spell the way she did in the books.

Come to think of it, I recall reading a comment that in the TV show Yennefer is basically a serial rapist since she enchanted all those people in the house into a magical orgy. Not sure what the show writer was going for there. I originally thought those orgy people were illusions.

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8 hours ago, Gigei said:

I can't seem to edit my post above but I can edit my other posts. I've also found out how to do spoilers. I apologize for the format mess above.

Anyway, to stay on topic. As of episode 5:

Loving Cavill as Geralt. He does the best with the cringey dialogue; he looks the part; his sword fights are great.

MyAnna Buring is likewise great. Someone said she's like Aes Sedai from WoT and now I can't unsee her as Green Ajah!

Anya Chalotra is okay but not quite there yet. I want more bitchy, hard, and just downright mean Yennefer. This isn't entirely her fault though since her dialogue is very un-Yennefer-like. For example, in the first meeting show Yennefer says "I thought you would have horns or fangs" and then Geralt mansplains magic stuff, rofl. Whereas book Yennefer was like "who are you?" then attacks him when he doesn't immediately answer.

Yennefer knows what witchers look like because she's a sorceress. She's like a post-doc in magic stuff. Yeah, I get that she was trying to needle Geralt but that is too mild compared to trying to assert dominance by trying to throw him across the room with a spell the way she did in the books.

Come to think of it, I recall reading a comment that in the TV show Yennefer is basically a serial rapist since she enchanted all those people in the house into a magical orgy. Not sure what the show writer was going for there. I originally thought those orgy people were illusions.

That was my defence.The judge didn't buy it.

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I am halfway through now, and I am liking the show so far. It is nothing too deep or boringly epic, but nice and interesting. Well done sword and sorcery rather than epic fantasy.

The timelines and timeskips building on each other work well for me. And I really enjoy how they mostly manage to match the themes of the storylines in each episode.

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10 hours ago, Gigei said:

It's a full-body enchantment. He straightened her spine and face, plus beautified everything. The hysterectomy was just one bit and, yes, her boobies most definitely were bared for the full-body enchantment. It's actually canon in the books that she had her boobs massively enchanted. Depending on the timeline she's 50-100+ old but has large boobs that look like a 17-year-old's.

Yennefer's breasts are consistently described as "girlish" and/or "small". Jaskier must've been referring to the force of the anti-aging effect, not the size.

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22 hours ago, Gertrude said:

I've not read the books or played the game either. I'm about 5? episodes in and it finally clicked for me that this is Xena on a better budget.

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What kept throwing me was that Jennefer seemed to have a more involved story with character progression while Ciri and Geralt were just on an adventure each week. Honestly, Geralt's monster of the week plots were bothering me. I know he's a monster hunter - I know that's what he does, but I was expecting there to be a more cohesive through-line. I can't see the Bard as anything but Joxer now.

Also, I'm getting a bit of a sci-fi vibe from this? Is it just some of the visual choices they've made or is it supposed to be a bit ambiguous?

Not sure if that last is spoiler worthy, but I'll be safe.

Interesting you got the sci-fi vibe

Spoiler

It's means to be set quite far in the future after one of those cataclysmic events that takes civilization back to the dark ages. Not sure if it's before, or in or after the 5th episode but the cataclysmic event is mentioned during the season, briefly mentioning how it is that there is a world with humans, elves, dwarfs and monsters.

 

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