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The Witcher on Netflix 2: Man of steel and silver


3CityApache

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I was a lot less excited about this than I thought most were going in, I haven't read the books or played the games. I thought it was great, and I thought the disparate threads of the timelines came together quite well, and the seemingly unconnected monsters of the week were laying the ground work for the main story.

I do think it plays as a prologue though.

Cavills physique really worked for selling Geralt for me in a way it didn't for Superman - Supes strength isn't based in regular muscles, seeing them bulging almost works against it for me, but Geralts most certainly is.

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I also haven't played the games or read any books, and I thought it was reasonably passable as popcorn entertainment.  Though I can see why the incredible range in quality would be off-putting to some.  Especially anyone that is invested in the source materials.  There were some very well done strong points, and some embarrassingly cringe low points.  

The time jumps were easy enough to follow once I figured out that they were happening, but I feel like they could have done more to highlight them.  It really wasn't until halfway through Pavetta's wedding ceremony that I figured out that we were jumping significantly back in time as well as forward.

Also, Im not seeing the male gaze issues that someone mentioned upthread.  And I say that having read that critique after Ep3 and finishing the series with a critical eye.  I can buy that Yennefer was exposed only as much as she was during her transformation to facilitate the ceremonial markings on her belly and back.  Apart from that I don't think she was sexualized anymore than Geralt was.  And, really, I think we get just as good and long a look at that corpulent mayor as we ever do of Yennefer's bewbs. 

One thing I've got to know from anyone who's played the game: when Geralt is hiding just around the corner from the bridge into to castle where he needs to kill the strigga, and he throws the rock that scares off the two guards at the gate, is that an in-game stealth mechanic?  Because it really looked like an in-game stealth mechanic. 

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6 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Yennefer's breasts are consistently described as "girlish" and/or "small". Jaskier must've been referring to the force of the anti-aging effect, not the size.

I don't remember them being described as small. Perky, yes, but not small.

I mostly remember Ciri musing on her boobs and they don't sound small, lol, though on my reread just now Ciri also doesn't mention size.

 
 
 
1
Quote

 

And those two mounds which rose with every breath, hugged by black cloth and white lace…

(from Blood of Elves)

 

But this quote makes me think Ciri does think they are big enough, definitely not small:

 
 
 
 
Quote

Margarita Laux-Antille emerged from the pool with a splash, spraying water everywhere. Ciri couldn’t stop herself looking. She had seen Yennefer naked on several occasions and hadn’t imagined anyone could have a more shapely figure. She was wrong. Even marble statues of goddesses and nymphs would have blushed at the sight of Margarita Laux-Antille undressed. (from The Time of Contempt)

Granted, there's no direct measure given but that really doesn't sound like small breasts to me. I don't think that if her breasts were smaller than average that Ciri would think that no one could have a more shapely figure.

Where does it say she has small breasts?

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16 minutes ago, Gigei said:

Granted, there's no direct measure given but that really doesn't sound like small breasts to me. I don't think that if her breasts were smaller than average that Ciri would think that no one could have a more shapely figure.

Where does it say she has small breasts?

The Lady of the Lake:

Quote

Yennefer was sitting in the corner of the chamber among the remains of her pallet. Her hair was disheveled, her dress and blouse were torn from top to bottom, and her small breasts were rising in the rhythm of heavy breathing.

 

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54 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

The Lady of the Lake:

 

Oh, you're right. My bad, I was wrong.

It's in Lady of the Lake, the last novel and I probably already had the previous description in mind. Also, that is the attempted rape scene so perhaps I wasn't paying attention since it was distasteful.

This still contradicts the previous description though. Sapkowski can sometimes give divergent physical descriptions of characters. Triss is described as having chestnut hair or red hair.

Quote

 

koloru świeżego kasztana - apparently the color of fresh chesnuts (i.e. brown with some red)

Od zaraz, od natychmiast! Och, mam ochotę chwycić cię za te ryże kudły. - Oh, I feel like grabbing you by that ginger mop of hair

 

I think it's just some people think her boobs are big, others do not. There's definitely no way that Ciri thinks her breasts are small, based on her thoughts, but Ciri herself is a bit underdeveloped so maybe her breast size standards are lower while guards' POV thinks they are small.

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3 minutes ago, Gigei said:

Oh, you're right. My bad, I was wrong.

It's in Lady of the Lake, the last novel and I probably already had the previous description in mind. Also, that is the attempted rape scene so perhaps I wasn't paying attention since it was distasteful.

This still contradicts the previous description though. Sapkowski can sometimes give divergent physical descriptions of characters. Triss is described as having chestnut hair or red hair.

I think it's just some people think her boobs are big, others do not. There's definitely no way that Ciri thinks her breasts are small, based on her thoughts, but Ciri herself is a bit underdeveloped so maybe her breast size standards are lower while guards' POV thinks they are small.

Oh, I think that it's a common trope in prose written by men (IDK about real life), that for a (pre)pubescent girl, any grownup boobs are Big. 

(As for "red" vs "chestnut" - it's in the eye of the beholder. And if the beholder felt like dragging Triss by the hair, she'd also pick the least kind adjectives available).

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14 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Oh, I think that it's a common trope in prose written by men (IDK about real life), that for a (pre)pubescent girl, any grownup boobs are Big. 

(As for "red" vs "chestnut" - it's in the eye of the beholder. And if the beholder felt like dragging Triss by the hair, she'd also pick the least kind adjectives available).

Hahaha, yes if I wanted to quarrel with Triss I'd be like "oi, shut it you carrot top!" lol.

I feel like a bunch of stuff was changed in Lady of the Lake anyway. Bonhart was the weirdest one. The guy actually had Ciri captured for several days but never tried to rape her yet in Lady of the Lake he's suddenly super into raping her and Yennefer. Pfft.

Just finished the last episode:

I'm quite satisfied overall. Loved Cavill as Geralt. Not sold on Yennefer but hopefully, they will get there. Ciri is okay.

Season 2 has already been ordered and I'm already looking forward to it.

Some random thoughts:

  • The pyscho doppler is still out there, right?
  • I hope they improve the elf look.
  • Yennefer's green eyeshadow that one time looked horrible. I had to heal myself by looking at some Elizabeth Taylor makeup looks.
  • Geralt lost his sword many times. Maybe he should look into tying it to his wrist or something???
  • Butcher of Blaviken fight scene (bandits + Renfi) was the best this season. It's even better on rewatch.
  • People are complaining about Cahir being evil this season but I'm okay with it. Also, good actor.
  • MyAnna Buring (Tissaia de Vries) was phenomenal. I'm not even mad she got taken out by dimeritium powder in the face.
  • I loved Triss' mushroom thing. Even in our non-fantasy world there are tons of super nasty poisonous shrooms. Deadly magical shrooms??? Killer!
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Among the many baffling moments in the episodes are Geralt the fearsome warrior.  He's so good he kills monsters; he's been manufacture to do this.  He can kill anything and anybody, with body and hands, with weapons -- and does he have magical powers as well?

So why are all those ignorants out there throwing rotten vegetables and other disagreeable stuffs at him?  Why do they YELL at him to get the eff outta my town, how can they beat him up in a prison cell in one scene, while in another he takes out a whole gang of opponents all by himself? I mean a guy like that, I'd be very careful not to throw a rotten tomato at.  It comes to mind how, even in a company hostile to him, when people learn they are confronting Uhtred of Bebbanburg*, even when they hate him, they don't throw dung at him, or threaten to beat him up.  Unless they believe they are his equal as a fighter, and then there are generally rules, such as a fighting circle.  But here people just randomly start threatening and attacking.  Makes no sense.

None of this makes any sense in the show.  Again, if this is something 'everybody' knows, that everybody is far fewer in aggregate than the number of viewers the show is looking for.  Just like I'm supposed to KNOW that this is full body magic to make Yennefer have more attractive breasts?  There is no way for me to know this, thus ya, male gazey, just like the prose quoted to support this quite long discussion of Yennefer's breasts reads like what a man thinks about breasts, not what women think about breasts -- when they are thinking about them at all -- which is, all women have assured me, about .001% of the amount of time men think about breasts, specifically and just generally.

* The Last Kingdom is still by far the best medieval-style series ever on tv. And the most mature in manner, matter and treatement. It's not even fantasy.  By contrast, The Witcher is a lot more Merlin-like, and due to source material, created and aimed at a more YA type of sensibility -- particularly those extraordinarily silly and clumsy and simplistic orgy scenes, and that garden of paradise stocked with naked women who purely illusionary, ha! ha! even real! --  or so it seems so far -- I haven't finished it yet.  I rather expected better from a female showrunner.

 

 

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9 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Interesting you got the sci-fi vibe

  Reveal hidden contents

It's means to be set quite far in the future after one of those cataclysmic events that takes civilization back to the dark ages. Not sure if it's before, or in or after the 5th episode but the cataclysmic event is mentioned during the season, briefly mentioning how it is that there is a world with humans, elves, dwarfs and monsters.

 

Sort of.

Spoiler

The Witcher world is actually another planet. Humans - presumably from our future - are taken to this planet during the "Conjunction of the Spheres", when three planes aligned. Humans entered the Witcher world from our plane and supernatural creatures entered the Witcher world from another one (I believe that elves, dwarves, gnomes, dragons and halflings are native to the Witcher world).

 

6 minutes ago, Zorral said:

So why are all those ignorants out there throwing rotten vegetables and other disagreeable stuffs at him?  Why do they YELL at him to get the eff outta my town, how can they beat him up in a prison cell in one scene, while in another he takes out a whole gang of opponents all by himself? I mean a guy like that, I'd be very careful not to throw a rotten tomato at.

Witchers are forbidden from attacking ordinary people except in self defence. Throwing rotten vegetables and stuff at him isn't enough, and Geralt is so guilt-riven about killing Renfri and her men that he just wants to get out of town.

In the prison cell sequence, he only becomes lucid once he's already in shackles, which limits his ability to resist getting beaten up. His magical powers aren't very strong: he can do a bit of a Force-push kind of thing, generate a small amount of fire and momentarily confuse someone mentally, but that's about it. He's not a Jedi.

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Saw this linked on Reddit and thought it was interesting: the Butchering of Blaviken scene in the Polish TV version of The Witcher (called The Hexer). Geralt's actor there actually dubs Cavill for the Polish audio of the TV show:

They actually had some neat armor and weapon design. Surprised by Geralt's sword being a saber, but very much fitting for Poland's history. Also, whoever directed this was very clearly a fan of Japanese chanbara films.

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2 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Sort of.

  Reveal hidden contents

The Witcher world is actually another planet. Humans - presumably from our future - are taken to this planet during the "Conjunction of the Spheres", when three planes aligned. Humans entered the Witcher world from our plane and supernatural creatures entered the Witcher world from another one (I believe that elves, dwarves, gnomes, dragons and halflings are native to the Witcher world).

 

Witchers are forbidden from attacking ordinary people except in self defence. Throwing rotten vegetables and stuff at him isn't enough, and Geralt is so guilt-riven about killing Renfri and her men that he just wants to get out of town.

In the prison cell sequence, he only becomes lucid once he's already in shackles, which limits his ability to resist getting beaten up. His magical powers aren't very strong: he can do a bit of a Force-push kind of thing, generate a small amount of fire and momentarily confuse someone mentally, but that's about it. He's not a Jedi.

OK -- BUT the average viewer doesn't know any of this, and is not informed.

 

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18 minutes ago, Zorral said:

OK -- BUT the average viewer doesn't know any of this, and is not informed.

 

It seems to be a common trope though, powerful beings binding themselves by rules. I would expect it to make sense to many people. Especially with all the exposition about trying to be moral when you can't even know what is the lesser evil.

28 minutes ago, Zorral said:

...

None of this makes any sense in the show.  Again, if this is something 'everybody' knows, that everybody is far fewer in aggregate than the number of viewers the show is looking for.  Just like I'm supposed to KNOW that this is full body magic to make Yennefer have more attractive breasts?  There is no way for me to know this, thus ya, male gazey, just like the prose quoted to support this quite long discussion of Yennefer's breasts reads like what a man thinks about breasts, not what women think about breasts -- when they are thinking about them at all -- which is, all women have assured me, about .001% of the amount of time men think about breasts, specifically and just generally. 

...

 

 

It makes sense a full body magical rebuild for her, to get the power in society she clearly wants, and to escape from the prejudice she explicitly was exposed to in her past.

The nudity to me (also in the tower) was more a mere presence than intended as titillating, but that clearly is a case where personal interpretation is very important.

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4 minutes ago, Seli said:

It seems to be a common trope though, powerful beings binding themselves by rules. I would expect it to make sense to many people. Especially with all the exposition about trying to be moral when you can't even know what is the lesser evil.

It's not clear because the showrunners ignored the fundamental rule of writing, which is just because the writer knows something or intends something and it's not in the text in one form or another -- that is a failure of writing.

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24 minutes ago, Ran said:

Saw this linked on Reddit and thought it was interesting: the Butchering of Blaviken scene in the Polish TV version of The Witcher (called The Hexer). Geralt's actor there actually dubs Cavill for the Polish audio of the TV show:

They actually had some neat armor and weapon design. Surprised by Geralt's sword being a saber, but very much fitting for Poland's history. Also, whoever directed this was very clearly a fan of Japanese chanbara films.

Heh. The showrunners didn't aim at "local/familiar", they aimed at "exotic": it's not a saber, it's a katana (with some aikido thrown in for good measure).

Fun piece of trivia: the producer of the show later would receive a 2-year prison sentence. Officially not for butchering the source material, but for something entirely else (being the main actor of Poland's arguably largest political scandal since the fall of communism)... but the fans of the books like to see it as some kind of cosmic justice.

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It was actually a katana? Hah. Even more obviously modelling things on the Japanese samurai movies. I actually kind of dug that. For a low-budget early 2000s TV show, it was a reasonably decent fight sequence.

 

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42 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Among the many baffling moments in the episodes are Geralt the fearsome warrior.  He's so good he kills monsters; he's been manufacture to do this.  He can kill anything and anybody, with body and hands, with weapons -- and does he have magical powers as well?

So why are all those ignorants out there throwing rotten vegetables and other disagreeable stuffs at him?  Why do they YELL at him to get the eff outta my town, how can they beat him up in a prison cell in one scene, while in another he takes out a whole gang of opponents all by himself? I mean a guy like that, I'd be very careful not to throw a rotten tomato at.  It comes to mind how, even in a company hostile to him, when people learn they are confronting Uhtred of Bebbanburg*, even when they hate him, they don't throw dung at him, or threaten to beat him up.  Unless they believe they are his equal as a fighter, and then there are generally rules, such as a fighting circle.  But here people just randomly start threatening and attacking.  Makes no sense.

None of this makes any sense in the show.  Again, if this is something 'everybody' knows, that everybody is far fewer in aggregate than the number of viewers the show is looking for.  Just like I'm supposed to KNOW that this is full body magic to make Yennefer have more attractive breasts?  There is no way for me to know this, thus ya, male gazey, just like the prose quoted to support this quite long discussion of Yennefer's breasts reads like what a man thinks about breasts, not what women think about breasts -- when they are thinking about them at all -- which is, all women have assured me, about .001% of the amount of time men think about breasts, specifically and just generally.

* The Last Kingdom is still by far the best medieval-style series ever on tv. And the most mature in manner, matter and treatement. It's not even fantasy.  By contrast, The Witcher is a lot more Merlin-like, and due to source material, created and aimed at a more YA type of sensibility -- particularly those extraordinarily silly and clumsy and simplistic orgy scenes, and that garden of paradise stocked with naked women who purely illusionary, ha! ha! even real! --  or so it seems so far -- I haven't finished it yet.  I rather expected better from a female showrunner.

 

 

Agreed on all points. In the books, I would get furious with Geralt sometimes, but it was within his character that he didn't do certain things. His meeting with King Foltest, for example, in the book was very much him bowing and being respectful and careful around the King. What he did in the show was beyond believable. In the books, he's a powerful warrior, but he can still die. The fight with the Striga, for example, nearly kills him, and he's sidelined for months, I believe. His character plays by normal rules. In the show, he does all kinds of things that don't make sense.

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Just finished the first episode. This was pretty lousy. I remember reading the short story on which it was based years ago and there I was struck much more by the dark Snow white vibe of Renfri. That was lost her, which is a shame. Always thought that was one of the things that made what little I have read of Sapkowski so unique. 

In general I was struck by just how silly everything is, from Cavill's batman voice to the fight choreography to the let us all merely commit suicide shtick.

I was hoping for this to be good, so hopefully it picks up after a few episodes. I'm echoing @Zorral that it is about time for The Last Kingdom to get some competition for best faux-middle age show.

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Yeah, The Witcher isn't remotely on a par with even the first season of The Last Kingdom, let alone the later ones.

That reminds me that Season 4 of The Last Kingdom should be on Netflix soon-ish.

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Hooooo-kay ... what is this White Flame I am suddenly hearing referenced?  Is it a religion? a form of sorcery? a person? wot the hell?  Again something we do not know, and never learn because, unlike good sf/f, in which an attention-paying reader or viewer will eventually learn what the initially unknown thing is from context, conversation, action, etc. But The Witcher is evidently just too above that sort of common behavior.

Feh.  It's that failure of writing which is the number one cause of the mess of what this show is.  Nothing in it makes sense, either at the start or at the end.  Not to mention the inconsistancies.  The only constant is Ciri running running running.  Even when Destiny's People* -- Geralt and Ciri -- who are actively looking for each other --

Spoiler

she goes running.  Wot the eff for??????? does she go running?  And then runs into his arms. And then says, "Who is Yennefer." Cut to black.  The end.  Not just of the episode, but the season.

* Lordessa, every time I hear this "Destiny" and "Child" in the show I crack up because I immediately think, "Destiny's Child," the group with which the very much younger then Beyoncé sang:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny's_Child_discography

(And, there, anyone wanting to talk women's breasts, there is a lot of content for conversation. :P )

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2 hours ago, Zorral said:

 

  Hide contents

she goes running.  Wot the eff for??????? does she go running?  And then runs into his arms. And then says, "Who is Yennefer." Cut to black.  The end.  Not just of the episode, but the season.

 

 

Spoiler

If she doesn't run then they just meet in the yard and they can't meet in the yard. She's the Girl in the Woods for pete's sake. Maybe Geralt wouldn't recognize her if she's not surrounded by green leaves and softly dappled sunlight?

 

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