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Exercise and Fitness: bro science debunked


Iskaral Pust

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4 hours ago, Starkess said:

It's not worked because I haven't achieved my goals with it.

I'm a big fan of counting calories, because really it does all come down to calories. Any strategy that doesn't involve doing that on some level if designed to fail as far as I'm concerned.

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8 hours ago, Starkess said:

It's not worked because I haven't achieved my goals with it.

My obsessive calorie counting was not for healthy reasons  but I do think it can be somewhat misleading to think counting calories is a sure fire weight loss technique. I mean, you could calculate that you need, say, 1,200 calories a day for weight loss then eat all of those calories entirely from, say, a stick of butter. Not helpful, probably not conducive to weight loss (though I’m sure someone more knowledgable is about to come along and tell me actually I’m wrong :P ). 

As for me, back on a weight gain diet. I hate it so much as it feels like I’m cramming food in my mouth every second of the day with the stupid meal plan my dietician has me on. May see if I can shuffle it round a bit so it’s more manageable.

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2 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

My obsessive calorie counting was not for healthy reasons  but I do think it can be somewhat misleading to think counting calories is a sure fire weight loss technique. I mean, you could calculate that you need, say, 1,200 calories a day for weight loss then eat all of those calories entirely from, say, a stick of butter. Not helpful, probably not conducive to weight loss (though I’m sure someone more knowledgable is about to come along and tell me actually I’m wrong :P ). 

I think if you also break down calories into macronutrients ( protein, fat , carbs) then you tend to get better results. Honestly I think if you accurately count calories and macros over time and stuck to the right numbers it would be almost impossible to not lose weight, and good weight. Thermaldynamics makes it so!

This issue is that mostly it is tedious to count calories, people are generally bad at estimating what they ate, and miscount. Eating a slab of butter would probably make you hungry for other foods and you'd go and binge on something else.. thats not even mentioning the lack of vitamins from just eating something like butter! 

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13 hours ago, Triskele said:

Just out of curiosity are you basing the 188 and the 183 on consistent measurings?  I've mentioned this before, but I continue to be amazed at how often I fluctuate ~5 lbs within 24 hours.  I really don't understand how that's possible.  

Yes, consistent.  I weigh myself in the morning just after waking.  I’ve noticed intraday fluctuations too — I’m generally a couple of pounds heavier later in the day, but it’s variable.

I was back to 186lbs this morning.  I’m pretty sure water retention from all the salt in restaurant food is a factor, which normalizes quickly.  But total calories were a factor too and that takes a bit longer to fix.

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Accurately counting calories is difficult unless you use a scale for everything and cook everything from whole ingredients.  Any restaurant food is impossible to estimate (so many stealth calories from added butter/oil/fat).  Even when calories are posted on processed foods or restaurant menus, they are unreliable and often have a margin of error of 20%.

I find it’s better to focus on % of TDEE (total daily energy expenditure), e.g. if my weight has been stable lately then my current calorie intake matches my TDEE.  From there a 5-10% deficit in TDEE is a reasonable sustainable deficit without compromising metabolism or exercise, so all I need to do is shrink my portion size by 5-10% at each meal or remove any junk calories like dessert up to a similar level.  At the same time if I increase fiber, reduce high glycemic carbs/sugar and increase % of protein within that calories budget then it should help avoid catabolism of muscle.

If I had been gaining weight (fat) lately, then I’m switching from a calorie surplus to calorie deficit.  First I estimate the surplus as a % of TDEE, e.g. gaining 1lb per month on average means ~115kcal/day surplus, which is a 5% surplus above a TDEE of 2500kcal/day (TDEE will vary depending on size, lean mass % and level of activity).  I would still use 90% of prior calorie intake (which would be 95% of TDEE in the example above) as the largest reasonable, sustainable reduction in calorie intake, but after six months at the new lower level then becomes the baseline for a further 5% reduction, if needed.

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I'm doing a serious calorie count diet for the first time in my life. I gained almost 7 kg (15 lbs) last year, which I'm not really ashamed of - I needed those ice creams and beers to get me through a tough time in my life - but now I really want to get fit again. 

Weighing in at 90 kg (198 lbs) and doing a decent amount of exercise I've calculated that 2500 kcal/day should be enough to lose about 0.5 kg or 1 lb per week. I weigh myself once a week and tomorrow will be the first time since I started, so that'll be exciting. If I don't lose any weight this time around I'll simply reduce the calories a bit further. 

The goal is to get down to somewhere around 82 kg (181 lbs). I used to weigh that 12 years ago when I was the most fit, so it seems like a good goal. In addition to restricting the calories I try to keep up the protein intake (counting grams) and do a lot of weight lifting to avoid losing too much muscle. 

In some odd way I think it's kind of fun so far, and I'm learning a lot along the way. 

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Yeah, I really didn't want to get into this argument about calorie counting again. Suffice to say, I know how to count calories, and I have a very thorough understanding of "thermaldynamics" (assuming that was a typo for thermodynamics :lol:). The issue is not how well I am counting calories. But the past 6 months it hasn't been working for me, so I'm trying something else.

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I got back to the gym yesterday and today.  Our first couple of days back from our trip were busy with post-Christmas chores.  Plus we’ve been catching up with friends almost every evening, so yet more restaurant food — when I was looking forward to some cleaner eating at last.  

Bench press and rows went very well yesterday with increased workload, although my pecs have lots of DOMS today.  Squats and deadlifts today also went really well, but only a minor increase in workload.  No time for workout tomorrow though. 

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The good news: I'm back onto a workout schedule and it feels really good to be back in the gym. Lifting 3x a week and doing some running ~2x a week (although it finally snowed today so I'll have to transition to indoor cardio). I've also had no problem stick with a "dry January" or whatever you want to call it.

The bad news: I cannot seem to stop eating. I do fine all day and then after dinner I stuff my face with chocolate, ice cream, whatever. I don't understand it. I've actually gained weight since I got home from vacation!! I feel so fat and unhappy with my body and it's so frustrating feeling like I can't control myself.

I guess just keep on keeping on. One thing at a time.

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My shoulder is proper mullered and has been off and on for past 2 years. i can't do chest or shoulder exercises at all, which makes me want to not do the rest of my body as who wants to be all out of proportion.  Gym at work has decent cardio kit so i'm running, rowing, cycling and cross training for 15 mins each.  it keeps me ticking over but really unsatisfactory.  

i have found my alcohol intake massively reduced since fatherhood so it not so important for self esteem anymore as the weight is staying off by itself better than previously.  

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10 hours ago, Starkess said:

The good news: I'm back onto a workout schedule and it feels really good to be back in the gym. Lifting 3x a week and doing some running ~2x a week (although it finally snowed today so I'll have to transition to indoor cardio). I've also had no problem stick with a "dry January" or whatever you want to call it.

The bad news: I cannot seem to stop eating. I do fine all day and then after dinner I stuff my face with chocolate, ice cream, whatever. I don't understand it. I've actually gained weight since I got home from vacation!! I feel so fat and unhappy with my body and it's so frustrating feeling like I can't control myself.

I guess just keep on keeping on. One thing at a time.

Dealing with hunger has always been my biggest problem as well, and I recognise the problem of being hungry after dinner. For me cheating helps some. That is, drinking diet coke or similar stuff to satisfy my craving for sweetness. Protein bars are also a life saver. I find I can use them as a late night snack instead of ice cream or cookies. The extra protein and chewy, "heavy" nature they have reduces the hunger feelings for me, plus I think they're pretty tasty.

Also planning my meals and sleep so that I don't have loads of time after dinner helps. If I eat at six and go to bed at eleven that's five hours of fasting. Of course I'll get hungry then. It can be better to, say, eat a (healthy) snack at 5:30, have dinner at 8, another snack at 9:30 and then go to bed at 10:30.

If you (or anyone else for that matter) have any other tips on how to combat hunger during a diet I'd love to hear them. 

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Back at this seriously as well - somehow gained 10 lbs in like six weeks over the end of the semester stress+winter break at home. I knew I was going over, but 10 is way too much. Back to a regular routine of swimming, walking, and I'm going to try and mix lifting and maybe yoga in there a few times a week as well.

And calorie counting, which when I'm in the groove, I actually kind of enjoy and don't have a problem sticking to. 'The groove' is a completely mysterious state that lands upon me like weather though - It will be virtually zero discipline required to lose 10lb per month for two or three, and then, poof, wake up one day and I can't for the life of me stop eating ice cream until I've gained 10 lbs all over again. I seem to have slipped back into it yesterday with being my first day properly back (tracked all calories yesterday, walked the 3km to campus this morning, went for a swim, had protein-y stuff for breakfast, had breakfast) but we'll see...

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DP - yep, that's the same way I am too!

15 hours ago, Erik of Hazelfield said:

Dealing with hunger has always been my biggest problem as well, and I recognise the problem of being hungry after dinner. For me cheating helps some. That is, drinking diet coke or similar stuff to satisfy my craving for sweetness. Protein bars are also a life saver. I find I can use them as a late night snack instead of ice cream or cookies. The extra protein and chewy, "heavy" nature they have reduces the hunger feelings for me, plus I think they're pretty tasty.

Also planning my meals and sleep so that I don't have loads of time after dinner helps. If I eat at six and go to bed at eleven that's five hours of fasting. Of course I'll get hungry then. It can be better to, say, eat a (healthy) snack at 5:30, have dinner at 8, another snack at 9:30 and then go to bed at 10:30.

If you (or anyone else for that matter) have any other tips on how to combat hunger during a diet I'd love to hear them. 

The worst part for me is that it's not actually hunger at all, it's just wanting to eat. So controlling the hunger doesn't really help because it doesn't scratch the right itch. Which I guess is just the desire to do whatever I want? It's like I'm acting out against...myself. Lol. My boyfriend thinks that I just don't really want to lose the weight enough yet and I think he's right, so there is a mismatch between the goals I'm setting for myself and my motivation and it's leading to even worse outcomes.

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7 hours ago, Datepalm said:

Back at this seriously as well - somehow gained 10 lbs in like six weeks over the end of the semester stress+winter break at home. I knew I was going over, but 10 is way too much. Back to a regular routine of swimming, walking, and I'm going to try and mix lifting and maybe yoga in there a few times a week as well.

And calorie counting, which when I'm in the groove, I actually kind of enjoy and don't have a problem sticking to. 'The groove' is a completely mysterious state that lands upon me like weather though - It will be virtually zero discipline required to lose 10lb per month for two or three, and then, poof, wake up one day and I can't for the life of me stop eating ice cream until I've gained 10 lbs all over again. I seem to have slipped back into it yesterday with being my first day properly back (tracked all calories yesterday, walked the 3km to campus this morning, went for a swim, had protein-y stuff for breakfast, had breakfast) but we'll see...

Ha, this is kind of what happens to me as well. I tend to be able to stick to my macros and calories religiously if I'm trying to lose weight. But once its achieved and I try and add some muscle.. then I just lose all my discipline and eat everything. 

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I've never been heavier than in recent months. I've been fluctuating around 85kgs, topping out at 86kgs (at 180cm height) last week which was unimaginable for me some 4-5 years ago.

What's surprising is that, even though I definitely have some fat around my stomach I've been noticeably fatter (even had a beer belly) when I weighed 3-4kgs less. Also, I've noticed increases in muscle mass. Hopefully, it's not just wishful thinking :D 

Either way, I'm feeling a lot fitter and comfortable than I did before and I guess that's the only thing that matters :D 

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@Triskele Nice progress, well done.  I wouldn't worry about one lift progressing faster than the other, it all evens out.  And sometimes it's something obvious like you deadlift in an afternoon session but squat in a morning session; there are peaks and dips in your strength in your daily and weekly cycle. 
FWIW, my deadlift is consistently 15-20% more than my squat and my bench press is consistently 15-20% less than my squat.  That's for heaviest sets of 8 reps; the ratio probably breaks down for one rep max, where I assume the deadlift would have even more advantage.  And that's when I do deadlifts after six sets of squats and I'm already pretty burned out.  So, yeah, deadlift is probably going to be your biggest lift by a wide margin if you're doing on a different day to squats.

@baxus congratulations.  Really impressive that you're sustaining that progress with a baby at home.
I've also noticed that my weight is persistently higher than before (now 183-185lbs), but I'm still visibly lean everywhere.  I may be a hard gainer but eventually I gain something.  Only downside is that additional muscle mass is ruining the drape of expensive custom made suits.  They were custom made for my shape as a soccer player.
I would still like to shed a couple of pounds, but I'm not obsessing over it.

@Starkess It might just be the winter that has triggered your appetite.  I found that colder winters in NJ and Chicago (compared to Seattle and Ireland) really triggered my appetite for calories.  I'm not exactly starving, but I feel the urge to eat, and feel much greater satisfaction after calorific food.  I try to manage it by making sure I get plenty of fiber intake for slow digestion, and rely on unsaturated fats as much as possible: I eat half an avocado with breakfast (alongside oatmeal, fruit and protein shake) and I eat almonds at lunch (alongside vegetables and protein shake).

 

I was bad last week: too busy at work to get any exercise midweek, and then skipped on Saturday after a busy family day ended with pizza delivery.  Sunday was shoulder press and pull-ups -- great session (pizza must be great for pre-fuel).  And I'll go down now and do a legs session -- y'all have motivated/guilted me into action.

I noticed recently a description of a weight-lifting regimen that exactly matches what I do:

1.  a day of horizontal push-pull (bench press and cable row/barbell row)
2.  a day of vertical push-pull (shoulder press and pull-ups, and
3.  a day of lower body push-pull (squats and deadlifts). 

I know most programs suggest mixing all of the above every day, but I prefer to do 6 heavy sets of each just once a week, allowing for intense workload and then several days of rest.

 

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yay, went in for some lifting - very light 5*5 (its been like six months). I also forgot to bring tights and so was that person in the gym in jeans. Well, they're very stretchy jeans. Anyway, feels good though probably won't be able to move tomorrow.

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