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Exercise and Fitness: bro science debunked


Iskaral Pust

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12 hours ago, Leap said:

Well, just did my first half (unofficial) since 2017...that was brutal. I did get a new PR - 1:49:56 (!), but I was really unprepared for how much harder that would be than the 18k I did the other week. I think the critical difference is that this time I took a CamelBak. This was probably the right idea given how hot it is even at 8 in the morning, but I really felt the extra weight today.

The other thing that I can't really avoid acknowledging anymore is that I've kind of under-trained. Three runs a week isn't really enough to build both speed and distance at this stage, and my Sunday long runs are now bigger than my weekly runs combined (not ideal). It's probably too late to do much in advance of the June race I've signed up for, but I suppose if I want to get any PBs at 5k/10k, I've gotta buckle down over the summer. 

Congrats on the PB :cheers:

Yes, if you want to get faster you'll need to up the mileage. But a sub-1:50, in the heat, on 3 days training a week? Not too shabby at all.

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18 hours ago, Triskele said:

Yeah, I might be operating in a state of denial at the moment.  I have so much good momentum with lifting and am really seeing results with my physique, and I don't want to change course.  So I'm trying to thread the needle and keep at it.  

I suppose one other alternative would be to just do leg day twice a week while skipping upper body for a while if I conclude that I have to give the elbow a rest.  

You need to rehab it, man. If you want to continue lifting without taking time off, that is. 

You tried the twist bar yet? It may look silly but it works. You just have to be patient (and disciplined). In addition, reduce intensity/sets/reps for the worst exercises and use an elbow brace for tendinitis when you do biceps. If you do this right it'll get you to a level where you can grin and bear it for a couple of months while the condition improves.

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Got down to a 10 minute mile exactly across just under 3 miles today. So feeling good about that - will try to keep that speed going and add tiny bits of distance each time. I’m bein super lazy with my running and lucky if I do 1 run in a week. But I got a new job where I’m going to be working most days of the week and that makes me want to run for some reason, so hopefully aiming to run about 3 times a week. See if I can achieve that over a month or so...

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8 hours ago, Triskele said:

Any additional guidance on this twist bar thing?  Very down to try some rehab.

ETA:  This site looks promising.  

 

Hey, sorry, I thought I posted some thoughts on this earlier but it's perfectly possible I only imagined that!

Anyway, I made good use of a SIMIEN Twist Bar (for rehab) and a SIMIEN elbow brace (it is the same for tennis or golfer's).

The twist bar will come with a bunch of suggested exercises but I got my rehab program from my physio to make sure I only did the ones with the most pay-off. It was tedious; I did like 5-6 exercises every day for a couple of months, but eventually I got over it without having to take any time out from my lifting. 

The elbow brace I used sparingly, instead adjusting my exercises somewhat but since I had tennis and golfer's at the same time that was a bit challenging. I mostly only used the brace when doing biceps (golfer's) but very occasionally also for rows/pull-ups/pull-downs (tennis). I didn't want it to become a crutch I could not get rid of later. 

In addition to this I did some needle work and cross-friction massage at the physio but, tendons being tendons and slow to recover, I am not sure how much impact that had. But it made me feel I was doing everything I could to push through it.  

I feel for you. It's a really annoying - and surprisingly painful - condition to have but don't despair just yet. 

 

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6x1200m workout (90sec recovery between) during my lunch break today. Forgot my GPS watch, so just went off the strava app on my phone and feel. Turns out that wasn't the best idea as I had no live pacing feedback. Not really sure what I did, but it was fast, and it fucking hurt. Near threw up after the 5th interval, and decided to stop there. Haven't done a session like that in a long time.

On the plus side, tomorrow is a super easy run + climbing day.

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2 hours ago, Triskele said:

Thanks, man, I'll take a look at the aptly named simien. 

 

Does anyone have any experience to share on trying to cut / lose weight while maintaining muscle mass or at least minimizing muscle loss?  The internet seems to basically say maintain something in the ballpark of that 1 grams protein per lbs of body weight.  Thinking I may need to mix in a few mini protein shakes between breakfast, lunch, and dinner throughout this process.  But it's also occurring to me that I might have really underdone it in protein these last several months when I'd been lifting hard.  For while I've typically done a solid amount of protein at every lunch and dinnfer like chicken or salmon I've not done any supplementation and think now I could have only been doing like 100 grams a day give-or-take.  

That's my experience as well. That amount of protein is not so easy to eat, especially while you're running a calorie deficit. Protein shakes, bars and stuff like that certainly helps if you've got nothing against them.

My advice would be to do a week or two of counting both calories and protein intake to see where you end up. There are some pretty nifty apps out there nowadays for that - I started out with just an Excel sheet but then switched to My fitness pal because it was faster and easier. 

Don't overdo the focus on proteins though - up to 1.7 grams/kg (0.77 g per pound) the science behind the advice is solid, but the benefit of going from that to 1 g/lbs is much harder to find evidence for, even if some research suggests it does exist. There's no harm in it but if you find it hard to reach then my advice is to settle for the lower goal and focus on your lifting and calorie deficit instead. 

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4 hours ago, Triskele said:

Does anyone have any experience to share on trying to cut / lose weight while maintaining muscle mass or at least minimizing muscle loss?  The internet seems to basically say maintain something in the ballpark of that 1 grams protein per lbs of body weight.  

Yeah most people have recommended to me about 1-1.2 grams per lbs of bodyweight and I think it seems to make sense. Certainly its more important to get a good level of protein whilst cutting to maintain your muscle mass.

I'd definitely be looking to count calories and protein for a couple of weeks to get a sense of how much you are eating. I generally aim for 140g a day. It can be a little hard to achieve depending on your diet, but generally my lunch and dinner would be meat and salad of some sort, and then I can add snacks in between, which are usually containing protein. 

I quite like nuts, biltong or beef jerky or yogurt as a way of getting in that extra protein. I don't do well with protein shakes generally so I've cut those out in favour of whole foods.

I wouldn't stress too much about it however. If your strength is going down in your lifts whilst you lose weight, then I'd pay attention to it a bit more closely, otherwise it might not be such an issue.

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Despite a lot of travel and very little sleep, I’ve managed to keep exercising at a decent rate in recent weeks.  And I should be able to get two more sessions over this weekend. 

Ironically, considering the recent discussion of Trisk’s tendinitis, I felt an unpleasant elbow tendon strain during pull-ups on Wednesday.  In one set I used a much wider grip for variation but it definitely caused a strain (but I don’t get a similar problem with a similarly wide grip in pull-downs).  I’ve been massaging since to try to allow it to heal before it becomes a real problem.

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After having my left wrist in a cast for two weeks, 10 sessions of physical therapy, weeks of icing blah blah blah I have finally given in and had a shot to remove my tendons inflammation. Now I'm hating myself for not going that way immediately. All this time didn't have to go to waste.

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On 5/27/2019 at 8:23 PM, Triskele said:

Thanks, man, I'll take a look at the aptly named simien. 

 

Does anyone have any experience to share on trying to cut / lose weight while maintaining muscle mass or at least minimizing muscle loss?  The internet seems to basically say maintain something in the ballpark of that 1 grams protein per lbs of body weight.  Thinking I may need to mix in a few mini protein shakes between breakfast, lunch, and dinner throughout this process.  But it's also occurring to me that I might have really underdone it in protein these last several months when I'd been lifting hard.  For while I've typically done a solid amount of protein at every lunch and dinnfer like chicken or salmon I've not done any supplementation and think now I could have only been doing like 100 grams a day give-or-take.  

Iirc, grams per pound myth is because Americans are bad at the metric system. The research was naturally all done in metric— grams of protein per KILOgram of body weight—and Americans just did not do the conversion (and or ignored the units of measure) and “rounded” it to 1 gram per lb.... the protein industry was very happy about this development and has encouraged it.

long story short, the research indicates it is less than 1 gram per lb.

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15 hours ago, Triskele said:

I've seen plenty of debate in these online spaces about just how much protein is the right level, and it seems to range from like 0.8 grams per lb. of body weight to 1.2 grams per lb. of body weight.  I would love what you're saying to be true because it would be such a great story.

You are safe in assuming it is between 0.4532 grams per lb and the above mentioned 0.7 grams per lb.

for a 200 lb adult male, the lower bound works out to 91 grams of protein per day.

how many grams of dietary protein do you think your body can convert to growing new muscle mass per day? (hint it is not In a fixed ratio with increasing levels of dietary protein, it is very much a capped or severely diminishing returns scenario)

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The amount of weight I need to still lose for a wedding is so minimal that it does change my intake at all, but I've always wondered, if you're trying to lose or gain weight, say like 30 pounds, should you calculate your protein intake with those in mind or just your current weight?

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16 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

The amount of weight I need to still lose for a wedding is so minimal that it does change my intake at all, but I've always wondered, if you're trying to lose or gain weight, say like 30 pounds, should you calculate your protein intake with those in mind or just your current weight?

Personally, if I was dieting, I wouldn't want to cut my protein down relatively. I'd actually want my protein intake to be even higher during a cutting phase, so to preserve as much muscle as possible. I'd rather enter a calorie deficit by lowering carb intake and upping protein intake, rather than lowering both.

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I had delicious but very unhealthy Indian food -- from a restaurant, naturally -- in two of the last three evenings, and promptly gained 3lbs of what I hope is water weight from the salt-fueled water retention.  I need to clean up my eating again.  I was feeling great at 180-181lbs, now feeling miserable at 183-4lbs just a few days later.  I still have more of the Indian food in the fridge for leftovers, but I think I need to toss it out.  Both nights I couldn't sleep well as my body went nuclear hot from the overload of calories and salt.

I definitely notice that weight gain comes from too much restaurant food moreso than eating dessert after home-cooked meals.  The amount of additional calories and sodium in restaurant food must be insane.

Edit: workouts are still going well though.

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19 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I had delicious but very unhealthy Indian food -- from a restaurant, naturally -- in two of the last three evenings, and promptly gained 3lbs of what I hope is water weight from the salt-fueled water retention.  I need to clean up my eating again.  I was feeling great at 180-181lbs, now feeling miserable at 183-4lbs just a few days later.  I still have more of the Indian food in the fridge for leftovers, but I think I need to toss it out.  Both nights I couldn't sleep well as my body went nuclear hot from the overload of calories and salt.

I definitely notice that weight gain comes from too much restaurant food moreso than eating dessert after home-cooked meals.  The amount of additional calories and sodium in restaurant food must be insane.

Edit: workouts are still going well though.

I'm surprised you can notice such a small difference. 

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19 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm surprised you can notice such a small difference. 

I weigh myself most mornings but I could feel the difference before I set foot on the scale.  That much sodium leaves me feeling bloated.  I can feel that my wedding ring is tighter on my finger, and I have to wear my belt one notch looser for a couple of days until I've flushed out the sodium.

I can typically see a 2lb difference in the mirror too.

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Anyone have experience with elastic shoelaces? I swapped mine out for traditional shoelaces when I bought my new pair of shoes because I felt it was too loose as I tend to tie my shoes very tight even for walking, but the traditional shoelaces comes untied more regularly than expected and is also hard to tie tightly consistently.

I'm trying to determine if I should get used to elastic shoelaces or if I should just stick to what I'm comfortable with despite it being increasingly frustrating. :unsure:

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6 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

Anyone have experience with elastic shoelaces? I swapped mine out for traditional shoelaces when I bought my new pair of shoes because I felt it was too loose as I tend to tie my shoes very tight even for walking, but the traditional shoelaces comes untied more regularly than expected and is also hard to tie tightly consistently.

I'm trying to determine if I should get used to elastic shoelaces or if I should just stick to what I'm comfortable with despite it being increasingly frustrating. :unsure:

First use flat rather than round laces. They don't slip as much. If slippage is still a problem, then try a double knot. 

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On 6/5/2019 at 6:11 AM, Tywin et al. said:

The amount of weight I need to still lose for a wedding is so minimal that it does change my intake at all, but I've always wondered, if you're trying to lose or gain weight, say like 30 pounds, should you calculate your protein intake with those in mind or just your current weight?

You'd use your goal weight. 

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On 6/5/2019 at 1:44 AM, lokisnow said:

You are safe in assuming it is between 0.4532 grams per lb and the above mentioned 0.7 grams per lb.

for a 200 lb adult male, the lower bound works out to 91 grams of protein per day.

how many grams of dietary protein do you think your body can convert to growing new muscle mass per day? (hint it is not In a fixed ratio with increasing levels of dietary protein, it is very much a capped or severely diminishing returns scenario)

My understanding is that range is likely sufficient for a non-athlete in maintenance mode (basically the old 'half your body weight in grams of protein'). 

If you are trying to build or maintain a strong physique I'd look at the 0.8-1.3 range. I don't think that is a controversial statement. In my own experience, I note a significant, positive difference in my performance when I'm at the higher end of that but I wouldn't dispute there's a case of diminishing returns. But some return is still OK even if it's diminished... Saying that, going way beyond the upper range probably serves no purpose unless you are on gear. 

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