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Iskaral Pust

Exercise and Fitness: bro science debunked

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If you can do a lot of longish runs you can do them slowish. If you run only 3-4 times a week and/or cannot run for an hour or more everytime, I think it helps cranking up the intensity which includes doing the slowish runs faster. Or adding fartlek elements into the otherwise slowish runs.

But the best rule of thumb is that the "quality units", i.e. the fastish race-pace or similar workouts (like your mile repeats) should never suffer from too much intensity of your easier runs. It does not make sense to crank up the speed of the base/steady/slowish runs if you are then too tired to meet the specs of your intense workouts.

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Oh absolutely. I just find it's easy to get very hung up on pace and have a tendency to over analyse workouts. Very often guilty of that myself.

Even if you only run every few days there's far worse things than occasionally slowing down, putting a decent podcast or some music on, and just cruising and enjoying the scenery. 

Not talking about anyone here, but imo the most common mistake newer runners make Is to think they need to feel like throwing up after every session. Isn't fun, is demoralizing, and often ends in injury.

 

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9 hours ago, Triskele said:

Holy shit, that is some serious practice time.  I'm proud of myself when I get an hour of focused practice in.

How long would you keep the forearm in ice?  

I was pretty crazy at the time, doing all kinds of muscle building drills while watching TV and whatnot.  It was a bit over the top, but I got pretty good really quickly.

Ice baths work best in short stints, 5-30s, then letting the arm warm up and do it again.  I would do that for 30 min to an hour at a time, 2-3 times a day.  Pain was gone in a week or two and I was able to play again on a regular basis after about 6 weeks.

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13 hours ago, Impmk2 said:

I really do hate it when the legs don't respond. Had a long run like that a few weeks ago that was just painful. Felt like I was doing 4:30s, turned out it was closer to 5:30s, which then turned into near 6min/kms... So <5min/km for a long run is pretty bloody fast in my books! I'm a big proponent of just plodding through the miles and not worrying about the pace for long (and tbh most shorter) runs.

Yeah, those are the worst days. I try not to constantly check my watch, but it becomes hard and it's super disappointing when you start to see the time rolling in above what you expected.

At this point I'm still moderately happy with anything below 5:00/km for distances over 5km. The last few times I've run 5 miles I've hit 4:37/km which I am pretty pleased with - extrapolate that for two more KM and I'd have a PR for sure. I am terrible for pushing too hard on training runs though. I agree that it's better to take it easy apart from maybe 1-2 tempo runs/intervals, but that goes out of the window as soon as I get a good first KM in. My long runs go marginally better - I try to aim for 5:00-5:10 for anything beyond about 12km, because that's a comfortable pace at which I can sort of maintain a conversation (with myself, but still). 

 

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I exercise but would love to exercise more. I wanted to change the way my muscles looked when I had them, so I grew chunky and today is the perfect date of this jiggle being created to be a way of making my abs into a different look because I'm going to exercise differently. 

Tell me I'm not always there now because it would be true. 

 

I love just the fact that my blood pumps when I do something strenuous because like everyone knows, exercise just releases chemicals in the brain that make you happy. It works on me at least. Music is the same way. It makes you happy. Just listening to it. 

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Well, just did my first half (unofficial) since 2017...that was brutal. I did get a new PR - 1:49:56 (!), but I was really unprepared for how much harder that would be than the 18k I did the other week. I think the critical difference is that this time I took a CamelBak. This was probably the right idea given how hot it is even at 8 in the morning, but I really felt the extra weight today.

The other thing that I can't really avoid acknowledging anymore is that I've kind of under-trained. Three runs a week isn't really enough to build both speed and distance at this stage, and my Sunday long runs are now bigger than my weekly runs combined (not ideal). It's probably too late to do much in advance of the June race I've signed up for, but I suppose if I want to get any PBs at 5k/10k, I've gotta buckle down over the summer. 

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On 5/22/2019 at 6:16 AM, aceluby said:

Ice baths work best in short stints, 5-30s, then letting the arm warm up and do it again.  I would do that for 30 min to an hour at a time, 2-3 times a day.  Pain was gone in a week or two and I was able to play again on a regular basis after about 6 weeks.

I've tried just holding an ice pack up to the inner elbow joint for 5 minute stints the last few days, and I'm encouraged to say it feels like it's doing something.

I also did a pull day yesterday and was able to get through a few lifts like lat pulldowns where I was able to focus on using the back as much as possible and the forearm as little as possible.  I did feel the elbow a bit doing inverted rows in the normal hand position just a bit to the point where I think I can do the exercise to the full extent where it's just a question of how much do I want to mess with the elbow or not.  

But I did pick up some lighter dumb bells to try hammer bicep curls, and to those the elbow just said hell no.  Not a big problem for me if I can't do biceps...that would be one of the lifts I could most easily give up.  

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Ive also hurt my elbows (they were fatigued i guess) alternating hot and cold felt really good, but it didnt really help. Hope yours work out better because mine took months of rest to get better.

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17 minutes ago, Mikael said:

Ive also hurt my elbows (they were fatigued i guess) alternating hot and cold felt really good, but it didnt really help. Hope yours work out better because mine took months of rest to get better.

Yeah, I might be operating in a state of denial at the moment.  I have so much good momentum with lifting and am really seeing results with my physique, and I don't want to change course.  So I'm trying to thread the needle and keep at it.  

I suppose one other alternative would be to just do leg day twice a week while skipping upper body for a while if I conclude that I have to give the elbow a rest.  

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12 hours ago, Leap said:

Well, just did my first half (unofficial) since 2017...that was brutal. I did get a new PR - 1:49:56 (!), but I was really unprepared for how much harder that would be than the 18k I did the other week. I think the critical difference is that this time I took a CamelBak. This was probably the right idea given how hot it is even at 8 in the morning, but I really felt the extra weight today.

The other thing that I can't really avoid acknowledging anymore is that I've kind of under-trained. Three runs a week isn't really enough to build both speed and distance at this stage, and my Sunday long runs are now bigger than my weekly runs combined (not ideal). It's probably too late to do much in advance of the June race I've signed up for, but I suppose if I want to get any PBs at 5k/10k, I've gotta buckle down over the summer. 

Congrats on the PB :cheers:

Yes, if you want to get faster you'll need to up the mileage. But a sub-1:50, in the heat, on 3 days training a week? Not too shabby at all.

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18 hours ago, Triskele said:

Yeah, I might be operating in a state of denial at the moment.  I have so much good momentum with lifting and am really seeing results with my physique, and I don't want to change course.  So I'm trying to thread the needle and keep at it.  

I suppose one other alternative would be to just do leg day twice a week while skipping upper body for a while if I conclude that I have to give the elbow a rest.  

You need to rehab it, man. If you want to continue lifting without taking time off, that is. 

You tried the twist bar yet? It may look silly but it works. You just have to be patient (and disciplined). In addition, reduce intensity/sets/reps for the worst exercises and use an elbow brace for tendinitis when you do biceps. If you do this right it'll get you to a level where you can grin and bear it for a couple of months while the condition improves.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Scott_N said:

You need to rehab it, man. If you want to continue lifting without taking time off, that is. 

You tried the twist bar yet? It may look silly but it works. You just have to be patient (and disciplined).

Any additional guidance on this twist bar thing?  Very down to try some rehab.

ETA:  This site looks promising.  

 

Edited by Triskele

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Got down to a 10 minute mile exactly across just under 3 miles today. So feeling good about that - will try to keep that speed going and add tiny bits of distance each time. I’m bein super lazy with my running and lucky if I do 1 run in a week. But I got a new job where I’m going to be working most days of the week and that makes me want to run for some reason, so hopefully aiming to run about 3 times a week. See if I can achieve that over a month or so...

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8 hours ago, Triskele said:

Any additional guidance on this twist bar thing?  Very down to try some rehab.

ETA:  This site looks promising.  

 

Hey, sorry, I thought I posted some thoughts on this earlier but it's perfectly possible I only imagined that!

Anyway, I made good use of a SIMIEN Twist Bar (for rehab) and a SIMIEN elbow brace (it is the same for tennis or golfer's).

The twist bar will come with a bunch of suggested exercises but I got my rehab program from my physio to make sure I only did the ones with the most pay-off. It was tedious; I did like 5-6 exercises every day for a couple of months, but eventually I got over it without having to take any time out from my lifting. 

The elbow brace I used sparingly, instead adjusting my exercises somewhat but since I had tennis and golfer's at the same time that was a bit challenging. I mostly only used the brace when doing biceps (golfer's) but very occasionally also for rows/pull-ups/pull-downs (tennis). I didn't want it to become a crutch I could not get rid of later. 

In addition to this I did some needle work and cross-friction massage at the physio but, tendons being tendons and slow to recover, I am not sure how much impact that had. But it made me feel I was doing everything I could to push through it.  

I feel for you. It's a really annoying - and surprisingly painful - condition to have but don't despair just yet. 

 

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Thanks, man, I'll take a look at the aptly named simien. 

 

Does anyone have any experience to share on trying to cut / lose weight while maintaining muscle mass or at least minimizing muscle loss?  The internet seems to basically say maintain something in the ballpark of that 1 grams protein per lbs of body weight.  Thinking I may need to mix in a few mini protein shakes between breakfast, lunch, and dinner throughout this process.  But it's also occurring to me that I might have really underdone it in protein these last several months when I'd been lifting hard.  For while I've typically done a solid amount of protein at every lunch and dinnfer like chicken or salmon I've not done any supplementation and think now I could have only been doing like 100 grams a day give-or-take.  

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Posted (edited)

6x1200m workout (90sec recovery between) during my lunch break today. Forgot my GPS watch, so just went off the strava app on my phone and feel. Turns out that wasn't the best idea as I had no live pacing feedback. Not really sure what I did, but it was fast, and it fucking hurt. Near threw up after the 5th interval, and decided to stop there. Haven't done a session like that in a long time.

On the plus side, tomorrow is a super easy run + climbing day.

Edited by Impmk2

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2 hours ago, Triskele said:

Thanks, man, I'll take a look at the aptly named simien. 

 

Does anyone have any experience to share on trying to cut / lose weight while maintaining muscle mass or at least minimizing muscle loss?  The internet seems to basically say maintain something in the ballpark of that 1 grams protein per lbs of body weight.  Thinking I may need to mix in a few mini protein shakes between breakfast, lunch, and dinner throughout this process.  But it's also occurring to me that I might have really underdone it in protein these last several months when I'd been lifting hard.  For while I've typically done a solid amount of protein at every lunch and dinnfer like chicken or salmon I've not done any supplementation and think now I could have only been doing like 100 grams a day give-or-take.  

That's my experience as well. That amount of protein is not so easy to eat, especially while you're running a calorie deficit. Protein shakes, bars and stuff like that certainly helps if you've got nothing against them.

My advice would be to do a week or two of counting both calories and protein intake to see where you end up. There are some pretty nifty apps out there nowadays for that - I started out with just an Excel sheet but then switched to My fitness pal because it was faster and easier. 

Don't overdo the focus on proteins though - up to 1.7 grams/kg (0.77 g per pound) the science behind the advice is solid, but the benefit of going from that to 1 g/lbs is much harder to find evidence for, even if some research suggests it does exist. There's no harm in it but if you find it hard to reach then my advice is to settle for the lower goal and focus on your lifting and calorie deficit instead. 

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4 hours ago, Triskele said:

Does anyone have any experience to share on trying to cut / lose weight while maintaining muscle mass or at least minimizing muscle loss?  The internet seems to basically say maintain something in the ballpark of that 1 grams protein per lbs of body weight.  

Yeah most people have recommended to me about 1-1.2 grams per lbs of bodyweight and I think it seems to make sense. Certainly its more important to get a good level of protein whilst cutting to maintain your muscle mass.

I'd definitely be looking to count calories and protein for a couple of weeks to get a sense of how much you are eating. I generally aim for 140g a day. It can be a little hard to achieve depending on your diet, but generally my lunch and dinner would be meat and salad of some sort, and then I can add snacks in between, which are usually containing protein. 

I quite like nuts, biltong or beef jerky or yogurt as a way of getting in that extra protein. I don't do well with protein shakes generally so I've cut those out in favour of whole foods.

I wouldn't stress too much about it however. If your strength is going down in your lifts whilst you lose weight, then I'd pay attention to it a bit more closely, otherwise it might not be such an issue.

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On 5/26/2019 at 11:51 PM, Impmk2 said:

Congrats on the PB :cheers:

Yes, if you want to get faster you'll need to up the mileage. But a sub-1:50, in the heat, on 3 days training a week? Not too shabby at all.

Thanks! :cheers:

Definitely aiming to keep mileage around 35-40km/week from now on. In the scheme of things that's still not that high, but I think I have a bit of room to improve in there before I need to push it up again.

 

Speaking of which, tonight's 5 mile run was really nice. I took the first 6k slowly just to make sure I'd recovered from Sunday properly, and then I went hard for the last mile - ended up getting a PR (6:18)! 

Putting aside for a second that 6k is kind of overkill as a warm-up for the mile, it is a bit weird that my mile time is noticeably better than my 5k time. I have never trained for the mile and I've done hundreds of 5ks, but I haven't been within 30 seconds of my 5k PB for a month. Suspect this means I need to do some speed training. :ack:

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Despite a lot of travel and very little sleep, I’ve managed to keep exercising at a decent rate in recent weeks.  And I should be able to get two more sessions over this weekend. 

Ironically, considering the recent discussion of Trisk’s tendinitis, I felt an unpleasant elbow tendon strain during pull-ups on Wednesday.  In one set I used a much wider grip for variation but it definitely caused a strain (but I don’t get a similar problem with a similarly wide grip in pull-downs).  I’ve been massaging since to try to allow it to heal before it becomes a real problem.

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