Do you think Doran Martell actually has a master plan?

[Platypus Rex]

He has a plan, in the sense that he has plans and knowledge that have yet to be revealed to the reader.

I don't know about "master plan".  The problem with these brilliant, evil schemers is that there are always a whole host of factors that they fail to take into account:  such as, zombie hordes, dragons, blood magic, greyscale epidemics, long winters, true knights, and the various tricks of the Seven Gods.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

His ultimate aim is the restoration of the Targaryens I think.

The question for me is whether he is acting independently, or is working with Varys. While he’s obviously ignorant of Aegon, Varys may have just not let him in on that aspect of the plan. He’s clearly informed about the doings of Viserys and Dany though, and adapts his plans accordingly.

[Platypus Rex]

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:18 AM, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

The question for me is whether he is acting independently, or is working with Varys. While he’s obviously ignorant of Aegon, Varys may have just not let him in on that aspect of the plan. He’s clearly informed about the doings of Viserys and Dany though, and adapts his plans accordingly.

It is not at all obvious Doran is ignorant of Aegon.  Varys tells Tyrion that Doran is mourning Elia and her babe (singular).

Doran talks as though he is ignorant of Aegon.  But it is consistent with his character not to give things away.

[The Mother of The Others]

Sports teams have to play to stay sharp.  Doran's genius tactic was that he'd skip to the endgame, avoiding risk until then.  So his method was to play the game without.....playing.  So he wasn't sharp when the time came, and we're seeing the results.  His people have trained, but in isolation.  They haven't had any high level scrimmage opportunities.  So they don't gain traction when you drop them into live ammo game of thrones action.  They're not sharpened enough, not quite at speed with the world you're asking them to "hit the ground running" in.  So the plan that absolutely DID look great on paper isn't being converted into a win in the real.   Doran is (wheelchair joke incoming) spinning his wheels.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:58 PM, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

So to put it short, does Doran Martell have a complex plan or was he basically just thinking for the last decade, ‘I’ll just wait for the mad kings son to grow up running from one free city to the next.’

Somehow I find the latter hard to believe. Leave your belief down below

Yes . For Tywin to die of old age .

[Crona]

I hesitate to answer these thread because often they turn into dornish bashing threads. But whatever. I’ll give my honest answer.

There is no such thing as a master plan, because pieces always move and you have to adapt and change with it.As such I think the assumption of him putting all his eggs in Viserys is probably not true. Yes, there was a bethrothal between Viserys and Arianne however the bethrothal was completely under Doran’s control. Why would Doran want to support Viserys if he cannot even get any supporters. Viserys would have the Dornish army and what else? That is hardly enough to take on Westeros. 

And I don’t know how Quentyn dying is Doran’s fault. Doran had told him to bring Dany to Dorne, but he somehow translated that into stealing her dragons. I know she rejected his marriage but the least he could have done is to get an alliance or become an advisor, that would have meant that Dany would have supported Dorne. It was actually a pretty easy task.

Dorne has not attacked anyone during all this time. They have been loyal to the Lannisters and are currently looking for Darkstar for attacking Myrcella and Arys. Their son died by Dany’s dragons, but nobody else in Westeros knows about it nor do they know that Arianne is going to Aegon. There’s a lot of pieces on the table that I think dismissing them is probably wrong.

 

 

 

 

[Crona]

On 10/27/2018 at 9:20 AM, Platypus Rex said:

It is not at all obvious Doran is ignorant of Aegon.  Varys tells Tyrion that Doran is mourning Elia and her babe (singular).

Doran talks as though he is ignorant of Aegon.  But it is consistent with his character not to give things away.

Sorry for the double post but if this is true then why didn’t Varys know about the contract with Viserys, do you think it was forged?

[Platypus Rex]

10 hours ago, Crona said:

Sorry for the double post but if this is true then why didn’t Varys know about the contract with Viserys, do you think it was forged?

I don't know if it was forged or not.  I don't know if Varys knew about it or not.  I don't understand the logic behind your question.  There is nothing about the pact with Viserys, whether real or fake, that implies that Doran does not know about Aegon.  Princes that make pacts don't necessarily intend to keep them.

[Crona]

12 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

I don't know if it was forged or not.  I don't know if Varys knew about it or not.  I don't understand the logic behind your question.  There is nothing about the pact with Viserys, whether real or fake, that implies that Doran does not know about Aegon.  Princes that make pacts don't necessarily intend to keep them.

Seems that if Doran would know about Aegon then Varys and Doran would be working together. However, if they were then I would think Doran would tell Varys about the pact.  But I guess Doran may have kept that to himself.

[Platypus Rex]

23 minutes ago, Crona said:

Seems that if   Doran would know about Aegon then Varys and Doran would be working together.

It's Varys' business to know secrets.  That Varys is aware of, and supports, Young Griff's claim, hardly implies that Varys and Doran are actual co-conspirators.  But they might be, sure.

"However, if they were then I would think Doran would tell Varys about the pact." 

I wouldn't think that.

"But I guess Doran may have kept that to himself."

Why on earth would he do otherwise?  Secrets are made to be kept, not told to random people for no particular reason merely because that person is in some sense on your side.

[Crona]

47 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

It's Varys' business to know secrets.  That Varys is aware of, and supports, Young Griff's claim, hardly implies that Varys and Doran are actual co-conspirators.  But they might be, sure.

"However, if they were then I would think Doran would tell Varys about the pact." 

I wouldn't think that.

"But I guess Doran may have kept that to himself."

Why on earth would he do otherwise?  Secrets are made to be kept, not told to random people for no particular reason merely because that person is in some sense on your side.

I would think if they are co-conspirators and one had Viserys who was supposed to marry Arianne and only Doran knows then how did Doran expect Viserys to marry Arianne if he didn’t tell the people who could have helped Viserys the most as they are already in Essos.

If they are not co-conspirators then how would Doran know about Aegon. Are Ysilla and Yandrey spies? Is Doran warging the big turtle in the Rhoyne and watching Aegon? 

Spoiler

Why is he sending his daughter out a war zone to find out if he is Aegon, if he already knows  

 

[Platypus Rex]

10 hours ago, Crona said:

I would think if they are co-conspirators and one had Viserys who was supposed to marry Arianne and only Doran knows then how did Doran expect Viserys to marry Arianne if he didn’t tell the people who could have helped Viserys the most as they are already in Essos.

If they are not co-conspirators then how would Doran know about Aegon. Are Ysilla and Yandrey spies? Is Doran warging the big turtle in the Rhoyne and watching Aegon? 

  Reveal hidden contents

Why is he sending his daughter out a war zone to find out if he is Aegon, if he already knows  

 

The Viserys pact was through Darry.  Isn't that the story?  Isn't that one of the things Dany pointed out to Quentyn?  That everyone involved in this pact is dead?  I see no particular need to involve Varys.

How would Doran know?  Doran is Aegon's uncle, nearest surviving relative, and a powerful prince capable of protecting him.  Who do you think Aegon's protectors would smuggle him to, if not to Doran?

As for your hidden question, it basically boils down to:  Why isn't Doran super-obvious about what he knows and does not know?  Arianne is more-or-less working with Doran now, but she is still the last person he is going to reveal all his secrets and plans.  If we allow for the fact that he is being cagey about his secrets and plans, there is nothing inconsistent about his trying to bring his various minions together.

[Synaesthesia]

I think he has a bunch of plans but I think he, like all our characters is a victim of himself and will never actually do anything because he is too cautious.

[Platypus Rex]

3 hours ago, Synaesthesia said:

I think he has a bunch of plans but I think he, like all our characters is a victim of himself and will never actually do anything because he is too cautious.

Those over-ripe blood oranges are not there for nothing.  

[Angel Eyes]

Doran’s plan for his family has failed.

He’s failed as a father, since Arianne always thought he was trying to replace her with Quentyn, and Quentyn got killed trying to make Doran proud. 

Continuing his family? Most men will most likely not touch Arianne as she is a spinster, Quentyn is dead, and Trystane has an assassination attempt coming down the pipe.

Though maybe there’s a reason why Arys Oakheart has only one chapter, it might set something up...

[Platypus Rex]

22 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

He’s failed as a father, since Arianne always thought he was trying to replace her with Quentyn, and Quentyn got killed trying to make Doran proud. 

Arianne and Doran are reconciled ... at least for now. 

The Quentyn we know is not dead (in my opinion), but whether he is or not, that Quentyn was never really Doran's son.  He was rather a baby-swapped impostor he sent to the Yronwoods to appease a blood price, and later sent to Essos on a wild goose chase, in order to get him out of the way. 

Doran's real son -- the real Quentyn -- was sent to Essos with his mother Mellario of Norvos, who we know as Septa Lemore.  Doran and Mellario are plotting to put him on the Iron Throne as Aegon VI.

Of course, that plan WILL ultimately fail.  But that's in the future.

[Chisa]

On 10/12/2018 at 6:03 AM, Dragon in the North said:

Uh, no. Both Show Dorne and Book Dorne failed in every possible way. The only difference is the show knew when to cut their losses

I have to disagree here. There's so much drama involving just one house. What happens when the other houses come in the scene? 

The north at this moment would be boring if it was only the Starks. Let's wait and watch the drama unfold.