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Widow's Wail

what is Littlefinger referring to  in  AFFC Alayane I, when speaking about Cersei

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It's a great question.  I don't think LF is referring to himself here, because even though he is of humble birth LF is not remotely humble and I don't think he would refer to himself in that way.  Cersei doesn't really seem to have planned out any of LF's moves either.  I'd say with that in mind it is more likely that LF is either referring to the Kettleblacks (one or all of them), Taena Merryweather or her husband, Aurane Waters, Qyburn, or even the Sparrows in the street of King's Landing (or to be fair some combination of all of them).  I say this because as has been mentioned here, the previous Cersei chapter had her reconstitute her small council with all these people and begin on a number of her plots that end up blowing up in her face in AFFC.  

All of these people are pieces Cersei considers beneath her or at the very least pawns of hers and doesn't really consider their motives, etc.  

 

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23 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

She didn’t win their support.  They both know she’s an idiot who is useful for their own ends, so they manipulate her.  That’s not a testament to her political strategy. She’s not even aware they are using her.

What they did benefited her more than them. They put Joff on the throne and Ned in jail. I'm not saying they forgot their own interests, but they knew they were supporting her agenda.

You're putting a lot of spin on this.

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On 10/16/2018 at 2:53 PM, Springwatch said:

What they did benefited her more than them. They put Joff on the throne and Ned in jail. I'm not saying they forgot their own interests, but they knew they were supporting her agenda.

You're putting a lot of spin on this.

No, they weren’t supporting her agenda.  They were using her as a tool and actively setting her up to be destroyed later.  Littlefinger, in particular, murdered Joffrey after putting him on the throne, precipitating Cersei’s own mental disintegration.

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On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 2:30 PM, Springwatch said:

It would be ridiculous to deny her achievements though. You don't have to approve, but they're all things she aimed at and got.

  • Jaime becoming Kingsguard
  • King Robert miserable, but still under her influence
  • All her children fathered by Jaime
  • All her children heirs to the Baratheon throne
  • Death of Lady
  • Death of Robert
  • Fall of Lord Stark, the King's Hand
  • Lannisters in power
  • Wildfire
  • Queen Regent

It's a world-changing list.

I don't like the character. I don't like her thinking or her morals, and I can see she's on a downhill slide with both. But. Male characters get a lot more attention on this forum focused on their achievements, and a lot less on their mistakes.

Tyrion has the best read of Cersei. He acknowledges that she’s dangerous and cunning, and never underestimates her; but also knows her flaws – she’s too proud and headstrong, and she doesn’t think far enough in advance. Of course she can outsmart Ned, and probably could have gone toe-to-toe with Stannis or Renly; but when up against proper deep thinkers like Varys or Littlefinger she’s way out of her depth.

I’d say that Cersei is very good at the short-term moves, when what’s required is ruthlessness and an ability to exploit an enemy’s weaknesses. The coup against Ned is a case in point.

What Littlefinger is pointing out is that Cersei’s arrogance blinds her to the fact that people won’t always do what she wants and expects. The best example of that for me is how she handled the High Sparrow. She wanted a debt written off and Tommen anointed, so allowed the Faith to arm. She expected that to be to her benefit, thinking that the Faith would go off and fight Stannis for her, despite that it was quite clear the Sparrows had their own agenda. She expected the High Sparrow to do exactly what would benefit her, and lost control of him straight away.

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 2:30 PM, Springwatch said:

LF is a player, not a pawn, even Cersei must see that.

I don’t know. I think she sees him as a useful henchman rather than a player in his own right. He’s very good at appearing to be harmless. At most, I think people see him as a climber who will do what’s in his best interests, but not nearly as important in the game as he actually is.

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