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You’re Ned Stark: make marriage pacts for your kids


Canon Claude

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9 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

You know, I’ve been seeing Alys Karstark pop up as a bride for Robb quite a bit on this thread. I wonder what made Rickard Karstark give up on trying to get Robb as a son-in-law and settle for Daryn Hornwood. Did Ned intend on marrying all his kids south?

Ned didn't intend on marrying the kids at all. She thinks Sansa is too young for a betrothal at the age of 12. Robb is 14 and heir to the North and yet betrothed to no one.

Ned Really had no clue on these things and I doubt he even understood Rickard's intentions unless he straight up said "Hey I want Alys and Robb betrothed so they can marry as this is the usual outcome of a betrothal and the intention of it."

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Robb - Wylla Manderly.   She is slightly younger and the grand-daughter of his most powerful vassal.

Sansa - Joffrey.  In theory, a great match.  Other possibilities are Renly and Willas Tyrell, but both are too old.  Loras is a possibility, but is a younger son.  Quentyn or Trystane Martell are also possibilities, as is Robert Arryn.  (She has more patience than Arya)

Arya - Foster with Jon Arryn with hopes of marrying Robert.  Arya would veto the marriage though, so maybe Trystane as a backup.  Or if Sansa/Joffrey doesn't work, Tommen.  I think the girls are going South.

Bran - Lyanna Mormont is an appealing choice if he isn't KG,

Rickon - way too young.

Jon - Hard to say.  If not NW, maybe a high-level bastard such as Joy Hill.  Or a surplus daughter of a Northern house.

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3 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

I fail to see the point of the Arya/Edric Dayne betrothal for House Stark (apart than probably pleasing Arya). Does Ned only knows about the existence of Edric ?

I would say he knows of Edric. Edric was squire to Beric Dondarrion when he set out from King’s Landing to arrest the Mountain. 

It also branches out House Stark’s options, since Arya is at a dead end (theoretically) of the line of succession and could (theoretically) have more of an option in who she marries.

I’m actually a bit worse with options since I suggested Edric Dayne for Sansa. 

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I understand the "what if" question but honestly, matchmaking is for the Lannisters and Martells who have to do whatever Daddy says.

I think much later in the story the Starks will have to make matches for themselves which is far more interesting.

Since Ned realizes he should have standards and wants someone who is brave, gentle, and strong for Sansa, the best person who fits that is her cousin Jon (her crush on Waymar is like a blinking neon sign). Arya's best match is someone who can bring the Starks closer to the smallfolk, Gendry is perfect for that. Bran needs someone from the Riverlands or the North - like Meera or Lyanna Mormont or perhaps a Blackwood. Shireen might work too. Robb and Myrcella over Sansa/Joff. I feel like Rickon should bring the wildlings into House Stark again, so a young spearwife for him.

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On 10/16/2018 at 6:14 AM, Nevets said:

Bran - Lyanna Mormont is an appealing choice if he isn't KG,

 

House Mormont is a minor House, plus the Starks don't need to secure an alliance with Bear Island. A larger House from the North would be better., politically speaking. Or some House from the Riverlands/Vale..

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7 hours ago, Shadow Binder said:

House Mormont is a minor House, plus the Starks don't need to secure an alliance with Bear Island. A larger House from the North would be better., politically speaking. Or some House from the Riverlands/Vale..

I think that the Mormonts (Lyanna), Reeds (Meera), and Karstarks (Alys) are the only houses in the North with named daughters that are anywhere close to Bran’s age. Hence the selection. Jonelle Cerwyn is too old, Greatjon’s daughters are unnamed, the Boltons and Hornwoods have no daughters, and the Manderly granddaughters are too old as well.

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On 10/24/2018 at 9:23 AM, Keep Shelly in Athens said:

I understand the "what if" question but honestly, matchmaking is for the Lannisters and Martells who have to do whatever Daddy says.

Same is true for all the Houses, while there will be the odd exception to the rule most children of major Houses will marry to benefit the House. House Stark is no different to Lannister or Martell in this regard. 

  • Brandon was betrothed to Cat when she was a child
  • Lyanna was betrothed to Robert against her wishes
  • Despite having never met Cat, Ned agrees to honour the marriage alliance his father made between House Stark and House Tully
  • Sansa is not consulted when her parents agree to marry her to Joffrey
  • Later when Ned suspects Joffrey is a bastard he calls off the marriage despite her pleading that she loves him
  • Robb and Arya are negotiated to marry Freys for political/military needs rather than love
  • Ned explains to Arya how she will marry an important man and have prestigious children despite Arya making it clear that is not the life she wants

 

Ned and Cat are happily married, they come from a society were arranged marriage is the norm and they clearly have no problem with it. Their children would be no different. 

On 10/24/2018 at 9:23 AM, Keep Shelly in Athens said:

 

Since Ned realizes he should have standards and wants someone who is brave, gentle, and strong for Sansa, the best person who fits that is her cousin Jon (her crush on Waymar is like a blinking neon sign).

Over Cat's dead body. They grew up as siblings, why would Ned want them to marry? 

On 10/24/2018 at 9:23 AM, Keep Shelly in Athens said:

 

Arya's best match is someone who can bring the Starks closer to the smallfolk,

No, that is ridiculous. The smallfolk are not going to be impressed by it and it weakens the Starks by depriving them of a strong alliance. 

All of Ned's siblings are without heirs, his father an only child. House Stark needs more acceptable heirs, not less.

 

 

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Robb Stark - Winafryd Manderly. 

Sansa Stark - Willas Tyrell. Joffrey was the best match but we all know how this ended. Willas seems kind, clever and is the heir to Highgarden.

Arya Stark - Larence Snow, renamed Hornwood. A way to solve the Hornwood succesion crisis.

Bran Stark - One of Greatjon's daughters. He launches the Gift repopulation project 

Rickon Stark - a Frey girl. Possibly sent to Riverrun for fostering.

Jon Snow. Still he joins the Night's Watch.

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On 10/14/2018 at 1:24 PM, Canon Claude said:

Simple enough premise. It’s the beginning of the book series, before Jon Arryn is dead. You have five (or six) children to marry off or at least betrothe in order to strengthen their futures and your family. Who do you choose and why?

Depends for me, Robb can either marry Wylla Manderly, Asha Greyjoy, Margery Tyrell, or Roslin Frey. Sansa can marry Domeric Bolton if only so I can wonder what would Roose do. Brandon can marry Lyanna Mormont. Arya can marry some Martell, its best outcome for her, Rickard Stark can marry Erena Glover. And Jon Snow can marry Shireen Baratheon in a Matrilineal Marriage. 

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If I’m doing this for the safety of my children and house:

 

 

Robb- to a Manderly 

Sansa- Wylis Tyrell

Arya- Robert Arryn/Harold Harding

Bran- to a Umber

Rickon- to a Karstark 

Jon- Mya Stone 

 

Robb marries the North’s most powerful bannerman, Sansa goes south and marries into the power of highgarden, Arya goes to the Erie and becomes a powerful Lady in her own right, Bran/Rickon marry into 2 other poweful northern houses, and Jon, given some land in the new gift with the bastard daughter of his best friend. 

 

I really tried to think of a way to get the Westerlands involved, came up empty handed 

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On 11/4/2018 at 10:12 AM, Sir Tywin said:

If I’m doing this for the safety of my children and house:

 

 

Robb- to a Manderly 

Sansa- Wylis Tyrell

Arya- Robert Arryn/Harold Harding

Bran- to a Umber

Rickon- to a Karstark 

Jon- Mya Stone 

 

Robb marries the North’s most powerful bannerman, Sansa goes south and marries into the power of highgarden, Arya goes to the Erie and becomes a powerful Lady in her own right, Bran/Rickon marry into 2 other poweful northern houses, and Jon, given some land in the new gift with the bastard daughter of his best friend. 

 

I really tried to think of a way to get the Westerlands involved, came up empty handed 

You have to look at Eddard Stark's POV.  There is no way in hell he's going to send one of his children to marry a Lannister.  Not happening, ever.  He will never forgive the killing of Rhaegar's children (Jon's half-siblings).  Remember Stannis' anger with Alester Florent when Florent proposed a marriage between Selyse and Tommen, the idea of marrying his child to a bastard born of incest?  He had the man imprisoned and executed.  Eddard won't go that far, but it's the same line of thinking:  "Fuck that."

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On 10/14/2018 at 4:38 PM, Bernie Mac said:
 
Lord Redwyne laughed. "What is there north of the Neck that any sane man would want? If Greyjoy will trade swords and sails for stone and snow, I say do it, and count ourselves lucky."
"Truly," agreed Mace Tyrell.
 
 

I guess nobody’s ever tried harvesting ice. There’s a frozen heart worth mining, might prove useful.

On 10/15/2018 at 2:36 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

You can easily solve that with a double betrothal. Arya gets Daryn and Robb gets Alys. Both the Karstarks and the Hornwoods get a better deal than before. Everyone is happier.

So why did Rickard just give up, for lack of a better term? I’m sure he would have wanted to betroth Alys to Robb, but he settled for Daryn. 

And Ned has no excuse for not having Robb betrothed at 14, Brandon (Ned’s brother) was betrothed to Catelyn at 14.

 

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Robb Stark - Wylla Manderly ♥ Isn't she fifteen in ADWD? I think they will make a splendid couple as we know Manderlys are loyal to Starks and Wylla is a brave northern girl ~ 

Sansa Stark - Harry the Heir / Willas Tyrell I love both possibilities tbh 

Arya Stark - no idea 

Brandon Stark - Lyanna Mormont, Meera Reed is too old for Bran 

Rickon Stark - either daughter of Alysanne Mormont or daughter of Robert Glover 

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On 11/14/2018 at 2:20 PM, Angel Eyes said:

 

So why did Rickard just give up, for lack of a better term? I’m sure he would have wanted to betroth Alys to Robb, but he settled for Daryn. 

There is no real rush for male heirs so their parents, if they have siblings, are not going to be marrying them off at the age of 15.

Rickard could have waited, but chose a pretty decent second option that might not have been available in a few years time after Ned had decided who his son should marry. 

Rickard may also have younger sisters and/or nieces who would be options when Robb becomes available. 

On 11/14/2018 at 2:20 PM, Angel Eyes said:

And Ned has no excuse for not having Robb betrothed at 14,

He's the Lord of the North, he does not need an excuse, he can do as he pleases.

On 11/14/2018 at 2:20 PM, Angel Eyes said:

 

Brandon (Ned’s brother) was betrothed to Catelyn at 14.

And was not due to marry till he was 21. 

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Yes a Manderly marriage would be profitable for both houses. But Robb Stark, born in Riverrun, named in the light of the seven. No, he needs to marry a northern girl from and indisputably northern house. Proof the old Lords "Southron ambitions" are in the past and The Starks are focused on the North. My picks would either be one of the Mormont girls Lyra, Jorelle, Lyanna or Meera Reed. Both from intensely loyal houses who haven't recently married into the Stark family.

Sansa is harder, I don't see Ned being willing to send her away no matter how much Cat stomps her feet (I really think he only let the Joffery engagement happen because he was going with her). Probably what Tywin said, A Glover or a Karstark. I can't imagine that Sansa has a dowry that would attract a southron heir like Willas Tyrell, though she would probably be happy with him in the south.

Arya I have no clue. She would push Sweet Robin off a balcony after five minutes in the vale (again assuming Ned let her get that far out of the North.) Maybe one of the mountain Clans?

Bran I could see marring Wyla Manderly. The Manderly's get a Stark and between his name and her money they start a cadet house.

Rickon and Jon would both go to the wall. 

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On 11/8/2018 at 1:18 AM, LindsayLohan said:

You have to look at Eddard Stark's POV.  There is no way in hell he's going to send one of his children to marry a Lannister.  Not happening, ever.  He will never forgive the killing of Rhaegar's children (Jon's half-siblings).  Remember Stannis' anger with Alester Florent when Florent proposed a marriage between Selyse and Tommen, the idea of marrying his child to a bastard born of incest?  He had the man imprisoned and executed.  Eddard won't go that far, but it's the same line of thinking:  "Fuck that."

Please point out where I said anything about marrying a Lannister. 

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3 hours ago, BooBoo_the_destroyer said:

Sansa is harder, I don't see Ned being willing to send her away no matter how much Cat stomps her feet (I really think he only let the Joffery engagement happen because he was going with her). Probably what Tywin said, A Glover or a Karstark. I can't imagine that Sansa has a dowry that would attract a southron heir like Willas Tyrell, though she would probably be happy with him in the south.

Arya I have no clue. She would push Sweet Robin off a balcony after five minutes in the vale (again assuming Ned let her get that far out of the North.) Maybe one of the mountain Clans?

Sansa and Arya were both being raised for southern matches.

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