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Ellard Stark

Did the Red Comet _____ ?

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The death of Drogo lit the glass candles.  MMD's, Visery's and Rhaego's death paid for the dragons.  Drogo was the Nissa Nissa that lit the glass candles.  His King's blood, an undefeated one at that, lit those candles. 

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On 10/20/2018 at 11:56 PM, redriver said:

Woah.Take it easy on the absinthe fella.

Wormwood , Weirwood. I never considered the Absinthe connection lol

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On 10/18/2018 at 11:09 AM, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt."

It heralded Dany being born again as Azor Ahai.

Yes.  Perhaps it opened a magic doorway between the worlds of the living and the dead.  The ritual was a powerful form of necromancy that pulled the dragons from the stone.  Stone is grey.  Grey is death.  Azor Ahai performed necromancy beneath the trail of the red comet.

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On 10/21/2018 at 8:38 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The death of Drogo lit the glass candles.  MMD's, Visery's and Rhaego's death paid for the dragons.  Drogo was the Nissa Nissa that lit the glass candles.  His King's blood, an undefeated one at that, lit those candles. 

We need to look at the timing.  Did the candles start glowing right after Drogo's death?  That would make them one of the possible lightbringers.  

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Maybe lightbringers are like when somebody drops a coin into a juke box.  So each time around the Lightbringer can be sparked by various artifacts, rituals, spells and sacrifices, but they all pay to keep magic going for a while, keeping the Lights on and the candles burning.  Until the jukebox is done playing one more song of ice and fire. 

You don't need to gank your wife, Jim.  Not necessarily.  Azor probably just used that excuse to get out of a bad marriage.  You just need to pay magic's fee.   And the fee, in short, is CUTTING YOUR OWN HEART OUT.    .....T'would explain why the coldhearted Others are so good at the magics, wouldn't it.

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I think the red comet is a red-herring. Its a literal representation of "when the red star bleeds" which references when AA is reborn. Daenerys' story follows the mythology of AA very literally, but on the other hand Jon's is much more subtle. The bleeding star could also refer to the sword Dawn after Ned has killed Arthur Dayne.

So i think the red comet was a plot point to help disguise the fact that Jon is the real Azor Ahai.

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The red comet is fire and blood.  Like Baggins had a dagger that lit itself in the presence of orcs, the red comet lights up and makes its appearance in response to the mobilization of the Others.  The glass candles also serve the same purpose.  The sacrifice of Mirri Maz Duur, Khal Drogo, the stallion, Rhaego, and Viserys lit the candles in preparation for the long night.  Azor Ahai sacrificed those people and that is what lit the candles and brought back the dragons.  

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Azor Ahai was a smith, he created three swords, the last one was the Red Sword of Heroes.  In the faith of the Seven,  the Smith is Mars, the red planet, what if the Red Comets are coming from Mars and it is called the smith because it creates "swords."  The Red Comet doesn't orbit the sun, they are just shot out of the solar system to populate other planets with weirwood.  What if Mars is completely covered in weirwoods?

Mars passes through the 12 houses of the zodiac, "the sword plunged into water" was when Mars was in Aquarius or Pisces it launched a comet, "the sword plunged into a Lion's heart" is when Mars was in Leo it launched a comet, and "the sword plunged into Nissa Nissa's heart" was when Mars was in Virgo (or near the Moon in the sky) it launched the comet that came to Earth and hit the dark object that was causing the Long Night eclipse.

In Norse mythology the beginning of Ragnarok is signaled by three roosters crowing, one of them is red.  I think we will see three comets.

We know that Mars was in Virgo when Jon stole Ygritte, how many months were between the first appearance of the Red Comet and Jon meeting Ygritte?  Then we could figure out what house Mars was in when the Red Comet first appeared.  There is about a year between Mars being in Virgo and it being in Aquarius.

(I don't know where else to put this but I think "Ygritte" comes from the Latin "aegritudo" meaning "sickness or grief")

I don't know why the Wildlings call Mars the Thief, anybody got an idea?  What does it steal?  Is it a play on words. steal/steel, that would work with the Mars making swords idea.

 

Also, the Church of Starry Wisdom, what are they praying to?  If the Bloodstone is an ASOIAF version of Lovecraft's Shining Trapezohedron, that was able to link the users mind to other worlds, what if the Bloodstone can link the users mind to all of the weirwoods on Mars and across the galaxy?

Also, this is only half-baked but Tyrion is an anagram of Yin-tar  --  Tar-yin or tyrian, and Yin Tar was a woman with a monkey's tail, Tyrion was supposed to be a hermaphrodite with a tail.  And monkey tail is a plant that is also called heliotrope, heliotrope stone is called bloodstone.  Tyrion will find the Bloodstone.

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On 10/18/2018 at 4:01 PM, King Aegon I Targaryen said:

My favourite speculation on the Red Comet is that its there just to show that people from different factions interpret it in different ways, e.g. Daenerys and her dragons, Joffrey's coronation, Robb's coronation, etc.  

So much this. Its there. And the people who witness it will ascribe it to their culture. 

Edited by TheThreeEyedCow

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On 11/20/2018 at 8:52 PM, By Odin's Beard said:

Azor Ahai was a smith,

And The Smith in ASOIF is also... a red star.

To be more precise, is one of 7 "wandering stars" (planets in reality, but people of Planetos, call them wandering stars)

associeted with the 7 goods of the faith.

Worth of notice is also that Free Falk calls that very same planet/star... the Thief. As Ygritte informs us, specifing that the best moment to steal a woman is when the Thief is in the Maidenmoon. And that was the case when Jon "stole" her.

However, if the red bleeding star, is the Smith/Thief indeed, then by association it may refer to:

- Robert dying (the warharmer=the smith) -> and meanwhile Daenerys gives birth to the Dragons

But also...

- Raeghar dying (Thief because he stole Lyanna) -> meanwhile Jon is born

- Jon dying or being stabbed (he stole Ygritte, many believe he did that with Val too, and he's stabbed the day he receives the pink letter, where Ramsey accuses him of stealing his bride). And if so, the Azor Ahai reborn doesn't refer to his second coming (to when he is reborn in the new... era) but to a "re-birth" as an hero, to his... resurrection in this actual (second) life. 

Or the red star bleeding is just the comet...

Edited by lalt

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Its going to drop some carbon rich ore that they can create more valyrianish (Damascus) steel with.

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On 10/18/2018 at 8:33 AM, Ellard Stark said:

We have yet to figure out what the ordeal of the Red Comet is... so what do you think is the best explanation? With the material (lore) we have right now.

What Should've Taken the Black said:

On 10/18/2018 at 11:09 AM, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt."

It heralded Dany being born again as Azor Ahai.

It heralds the rebirth of the dragons.  Or resurrection of the dragons if you prefer.  

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7 hours ago, Timm said:

Its going to drop some carbon rich ore that they can create more valyrianish (Damascus) steel with.

It's going to drop some hurt on the Others and those who enslave the weak.  

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I think the Red comet is of the same black stone that the Bloodstone Emperor worshipped. After the black stone fell from the sky it ushered in the long night. I think this red comet is doing the same and the long night will come again. I also think Euron went to the crash sight of the comet and currently has a piece of it. TWoW Spoiler

Spoiler

"He showed the world his blood eye now, dark and terrible." Immediately after the damphair recalls the "bleeding star" I believe Euron is wearing a piece of the "bleeding" star in his empty eye socket

 

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It seems the comet must be showing to be able to swap the soul of an unborn child with a dragon. Or maybe it is what allows the soul to burn without being consumed.

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I don't know if we'll ever find out for sure, but I personally think it was triggered by the birth of the three dragons. We know there was magic of some kind involved with their hatching, so it seems plausible that there would be some sort of mystical heralding of their reemergence into the world. 

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On 11/20/2018 at 8:52 PM, By Odin's Beard said:

 

In Norse mythology the beginning of Ragnarok is signaled by three roosters crowing, one of them is red.  I think we will see three comets.

 

The three comets theory is certainly one that can be inferred from the books, in particular the first three chapters of A Feast for Crows. Well, the prologue plus the first two chapters to be precise. The pages are dripping with symbolism once you start to look for it, as LmL has pointed out in his many excellent posts and videos. Apologies if these have already been mentioned by him or others, but here goes.

So, the red comet as seen in A Clash of Kings has already come and gone by the time of the events of AFFC and there have been tales of moons cracking like an egg, etc etc. If you're reading this thread it's likely you know all about the sun/moon symbolism which plays out throughout the books. But with his fourth book, it's as if GRRM really wants to lay on the foreshadowing from the get-go, hence the first three chapters each get their own 'three comets' moment.

1. The Prologue. 

We start with Alleras (the Sphinx) shooting three apples with three arrows.

"Far and fast the apple flew . . .
. . . but not as fast as the arrow that whistled after it, a yard-long shaft of golden wood fletched with scarlet feathers. Pate did not see the arrow catch the apple, but he heard it. A soft chunk echoed back across the river, followed by a splash."

Each arrow is gold, fletched with red. The red/goldmotif is a key part of the symbolism - the colours of a fiery comet, after all, with the tail in particular showing red. Note that the last arrow fails to meet its target - a sign of hope that a comet-collision disaster can be averted perhaps? LmL has gone into a lot of detail on this apple-shooting exercise, so I won't go into it further.

We have our red x 3.

2. The Prophet

The chapter has barely begun when Aeron Damphair is met on the beach by three men. These are not the comets - not yet. Eventually, though, the third of the group is described; and with somewhat more back-story than is necessary for such a minor character (he plays no further part in the book other than to let Aaron take his horse):

"Aeron knew the Sparr, a hatchet-faced old man with watery eyes whose quavery voice was law on this part of Great Wyk. His son Steffarion accompanied him, with another youth whose dark red fur-lined cloak was pinned at the shoulder with an ornate brooch that showed the black-and-gold warhorn of the Goodbrothers. One of Gorold's sons, the priest decided at a glance. Three tall sons had been born to Goodbrother's wife late in life, after a dozen daughters, and it was said that no man could tell one son from the others. Aeron Damphair did not deign to try. Whether this be Greydon or Gormond or Gran, the priest had no time for him." 

Three sons, who presumably would dress in a similar vein to each other (family colours and all). Red cloaks are here being read as symbols for the tails of comets. I didn't find any mention of their hair colour - GRRM never makes these things too neat. But again, red x 3. 

(The final son eventually takes his leave of Aeron to deliver the message of Balon's death to his cousins in Downdelving, Crow Spike Keep and Corpse Lake. Those three names seem very foreboding to me, although I can't quite put my finger on why.)

3. The Captain of the Guards

OK, so this one is short but sweet. GRRM isn't letting go of the theme, but still he keeps it subtle (-ish). Very first lines are:

" The blood oranges are well past ripe," the prince observed in a weary voice, when the captain rolled him onto the terrace. After that he did not speak again for hours. 

It was true about the oranges. A few had fallen to burst open on the pale pink marble. The sharp sweet smell of them filled Hotah's nostrils each time he took a breath. No doubt the prince could smell them too, as he sat beneath the trees in the rolling chair Maester Caleotte had made for him, with its goose-down cushions and rumbling wheels of ebony and iron.

For a long while the only sounds were the children splashing in the pools and fountains, and once a soft plop as another orange dropped onto the terrace to burst. Then, from the far side of the palace, the captain heard the faint drumbeat of boots on marble.

Now, I'm no maths wizard but "a few" blood oranges + "another one" could conceivably be construed as three blood oranges. A fine symbol of spherical redness mixed with gold/yellow if ever I saw one. And for those CotF conspiracy fans out there, there is something for you, as we hear the sounds of children just before the last orange drops onto terra. I mean terrace. Then we hear a drumbeat. Now, regular customers of the tinfoil haberdashery might go so far as to see implications of a seismic nature here, but I certainly won't go that far ...

Well, there they are. Three chapters. Three mentions of red x3. Far too close together to be a coincidence in my opinion. When exactly we can expect to see the next two comets is anybody's guess, but with a all the 'dragon has 3 heads' prophecy business, I'd say there's a good chance we'll see them in TWOW and ADOS. 

My longest post by far I think. I welcome the forum's thoughts. Have you seen any other trios of red in the books?

 

Edited by Sandy Clegg

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How come no one mentions the Red Messenger, as that's what the common people call it? Also, in the House of the Undying, the Undying tell her that they sent it as a message to her, to show her the way to Qarth. But this could very well be a lie. 

Different characters do interpret it in different ways. Some uncertainly (when they say s/he "told himself or herself"). I found it interesting that some of these interpretations come close to the truth (those saying messages, dragons, fire and blood are coming), while others are comically off base (Joffery, mainly). But if what the Undying say is true, then none of it is right. 

But I think the general knowledge of it is probably true. The red comet is a messenger of things to come, of wars, dragons, and also the Others. The wars in Westeros intensify as the comet streaks across the sky. In Clash, there's fire and blood scenarios even without dragons. And there are of course dragons, who have now returned (but no one would be aware of it for a while, only after the red comet is gone to make the connection). 

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On 10/20/2018 at 7:51 PM, By Odin's Beard said:

Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return

 

On 10/20/2018 at 7:51 PM, By Odin's Beard said:
the God-on-Earth, the only begotten son of the Lion of Night and Maiden Made-of-Light "
 
The Maiden made of light is the sun, the Lion of Night is some unknown celestial body

I'm getting good at solving the series in 5 minutes, like pop music songs take 5 minutes to write and record.

Here's my latest vision sent from the Ice & Fire gods:

Maiden Made of Light is the moon.  (She turns her back on the world regularly, waning when disgusted and unable to look upon our iniquity any longer.)  When the long night comes something blocks our line of sight to the moon, keeping her away.  That's why i favor a dense cloud of oort gases or whatnot as long night's culprit.  Basically, someone really nails the dark rituals at Asshai and the Shadow extends and unfurls over everything worldwide, but this can only work when the planet is drifting through this oort cloud ("Winter has come") because that gives the Shadow the substance it needs to draw upon to do its thing ("drawing down the moon....lessness.)   The ultimate Shadowbinder orgasm: to bind the planet in shadow.   No wonder Mel is conflicted!

The Lion of Night was the other moon that used to be in the sky.  (Two moonish parents for the god- on-earth).  Lion was a stealth moon that didn't reflect light the way the Maiden moon did because the Lion moon was composed of the malignant oily black stone later made famous after this moon exploded and rained down sinister mind warping substance onto planetos that infected the weirwoods when their roots drank in its contamination of the water table.  Also demons rode the moon's fragments down to the planet.  But dragons didn't emerge from inside this broken egg moon.  It may have looked like that to the terrified casual observer, because dragons arrived at the same time the moon blew up.  But they didn't hatch from the dark moon.  No.  Dragons were what smashed it.

The "comet"(s) of special magical importance to history are.... don't wait for it any longer!.....solar flares.  Dragons live in the sun.  In their true form as pure fire elementals.  They only require bodies once they're planetside and cool down to where they need a body to encapsulate their heat so it doesn't all leak away.  The sun detects when malignancies like the Lion of Night grow within its gravitational zone, and it sends solar flares out to singe and eradicate the unwholesome tumor moons.   These flares are vast swaths of far flung starfire that carry dragons within like cosmic surfers looking for some hot action.   The sun's enlightened influence is as semi-sentient as the malice exuded by the black stone. 

So the reason we get more "comets" over time is the sun knows there's an ongoing problem, the smashing of the dark moon was imprecise and it contaminated planetos.  The sun is yet unwilling to wipe out all life on planetos just to burn away the oily stone, not while hope remains of correcting the situation by sending magic booster shots (comets) to charge the planet up for an elemental magic fight that Fire is hoping to win.  Seen In this "light," the God-on-Earth looks like a Prometheus figure who showed us how to beat back the chaos, but Order wasn't in good enough shape to win the marathon, and chaos caught up with the Light's official attempt to light our way as a species.

The way oily black stone exerts influence, I'm ready to do a psych profile on it:  it has no regard for our standard of living, and is willing to run roughshod over us living beings in pursuit of its goal.  I believe its goal is to reconstitute its mass.  The broken bits yearn to be made whole again.   That's why, when translated into human terms, we see Bloodstone emperor become a huge despot, prioritizing the Stone over human affairs, looking to control the world and turn it dark in keeping with the stone's nature, making of our world a place the Stone would feel at home in.  Discord and chaos.  To downgrade and weaken our kind of life while inviting something Other to take hold here.   The trees may also be broadcasting discord and chaos into our dreams, deranging the nations into constant warring, a state of distraction and limited potential.   And during that confusion the idea comes to people that they should collect this strange oily stone and combine huge amounts of it to make castles, roads, temples, a city, a wall.   Our world civilizations suffer while the black oily stone profits and begins to concentrate itself geographically, reformulating the Lion of Night.

For the cherry atop this massive sundae of derectalized lore,

What if the long night is literally this dead moon's wish to live again in the sky?  What if putting it physically back in the sky would take more magic and rocketry than anyone possesses, but shadowbinders CAN manage to make its massless Shadow live again, and CAN upon occasion place that Shadow back in the sky wherever they please?  Why, freed of gravity and physics, this massless ghost Shadow of an undead moon could even be "effortlessly" placed in the sky so as to permanently eclipse the sun, yielding a night without end.   Forever Night.   (was a vampire TV show i saw a few times but wouldn't recommend, as i also would advise against permanent nighttime in Game of Thrones World.  It's just bad for the economy.)   

Then a solar "comet" comes as our lightbringer.  It physically disrupts the ShadowMoon, passing right through it to dispel the shadowbinders' magic masterpiece and return the normal flow of light to the sky.

 

Edited by The Mother of The Others

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