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Ellard Stark

Does anyone find Meereen plot entertaining or interesting?

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I believe Martin wanted to give fantasy, and fantasy about wars and governing a reality check.

A thoughtful look at the monarchy in England or other country, or an elected leader can show how unpleasant,  and difficult governance can be. They can lose privacy and safety. Solutions involve knowledge and compromise.

Dany is 16? She has survived assassination attempts. She has marries for duty and not love. Finds top down cultural changes are very difficult. Finds judging cases hard, even when her heart is in the right place. Struggles with post war economic and supply problems. Chains up her beloved dragons because they are a danger to other people. Discovers asymmetric guerilla warfare a very difficult problem. Lacks adequate advisers.

What a pity Bush two and his supporters didn’t know or anticipate difficulties after invading Afghanistan or Iraq. He did have people advising him against it, but the neocons swayed him, and the military industrial complex made pots of money from tax dollars. Still it won him a second term because his aggressiveness was popular. Learn from history, or learn from literature, as Martin has given a lot of thought to these issues, was personally confronted by the draft during the Vietnam war and has studied history.

So he is showing “mission accomplished”is not really the end of a war, no matter how quickly or powerfully you”win”, and it is very naive to think so. Dany is learning the unpleasant lessons about difficult unglamorous choices, and her talents, earnestness,and bravery alone don't solve the problems. Perhaps some fantasy readers don’t want to get it. I applaud the Meereen chapters.

 

 

 

 

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On 10/18/2018 at 8:46 AM, Sigella said:

I really like it, there is some great philosophical issues underneath it all, like:

- is freedom more important than comfort? (the slave wishing to sell himself to his old master)

- does the end justify the means? (Astapors upheavals)

- where is the line between justice and revenge? (crucifixes galore)

- right to tradition vs right to agency (pit-fighters wanting to re-open the pits)

Although they all bleed into one another. Freedom vs comfort most of all.

It's not so different from the politics and intrigue in Westeros only seen through a foreign lens.    Mereen is an illustration of the cost of power.   It's very difficult to read Dany's adventures in Mereen without confronting her decisions in your own heart.  

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1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

It's not so different from the politics and intrigue in Westeros only seen through a foreign lens.    Mereen is an illustration of the cost of power.   It's very difficult to read Dany's adventures in Mereen without confronting her decisions in your own heart.  

Absolutely! The Wildlings very much illustrate the freedom vs comfort conundrum from the opposite side of the scale, Robb/house Frey justice vs. revenge, tradition vs agency: IB-thralls.

In Westeros those questions tend to vanish into the background though, whereas in Mereen they are actual questions that Dany grapple with.

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I think it's definitely interesting, I think it's great that Martin tried exploring other places outside the european-inspired Westeros, but the execution of it was not that great.

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I did.  It was the best of the pages within Book 5.  And I would rank Book 5 as the second-best in the series.  Bettered only by Storm of Swords.  I second and third the fan admiration for the scene in Daznak's Pit.  That was George Martin's best scene since Book 3.

  1. A Storm of Swords
  2. A Dance With Dragons
  3. A Game of Thrones
  4. A Clash of Kings
  5. A Feast for Crows

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