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The Map Guy

R+L=J&M twins theory

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19 hours ago, Valyrian Lance said:

You had me and lost me at "by pokemon rules."

Glad you caught that one lol.

 

19 hours ago, Valyrian Lance said:

I think it is rather thought out and very plausible. I probably won't agree that it is the most likely of theories, but there are certainly more tinfoilly ones. I especially liked the "they" analysis.

Thanks. I feel like GRRM sent everyone on a wild goose chase looking for "They" while we already knew who was suppose to be in the room - Ned, Lyanna, Howland & Jon (and Meera for R+L=J&M). Just retweak the pronouns so it would fit these 4 or 5 people. But I could still be wrong, there may still be a Wylla or a wetnurse or someone else there in TOJ.

 

19 hours ago, Valyrian Lance said:

Airflow, specifically oxygen, increases fire strength. It is why pouring dirt or baking soda or covering a fire with something will put it out. It is why a bellows is used to add life to a fire. It is why blowing on embers will reignite a fire. It is why a wildfire will spread due to wind.

19 hours ago, wia said:

It's not a gust of wind trying to blow out a torch, it's just gust of wind. And it's the increased oxygen that's making it brighter.

Well I don't want to talk about Fire Science anymore, but one thing I have to mention: its not just oxygen, its oxygen & a fuel source. A fire would die out with all the oxygen in world if there is nothing to burn. If the ratio of oxygen and fuel is not ideal, the fire would die.

I hope you guys realize that you are defending GRRM and R+L=J&M. Me, the original poster of this theory, is trying to disagree with GRRM on this subject haha.

 

19 hours ago, wia said:

Do we even have textual evidence that Targs/Starks/Jon make torches burn brighter by their sheer presence in the book to make a connection?

I'm sure there are cold & torches references, fire & brighter references...probably no cold & brighter references. But all three elements?? So far just Meera. If Jon had a line where cold air made the torches brighter, best believe the fandom would have found it decades ago lol. Maybe we should try  the website below:

19 hours ago, wia said:

OMG, this would of been so helpful for me. I had to sit in my room reading the paper books and making notes on post-its. This website could of saved me hours, and probably find more clues for R+L=J&M. More importantly, the stupid books wouldn't tell me which chapter is which. I wouldn't know if its Ned V or Ned VII. I had to write down the page number and cross reference it with the online page/chapter index.

So this website is the reason why this ASOIAF forum has 10 new tinfoil theories everyday huh?

Thanks.

16 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Symbolism is always symbolism. It is not limited to a single book. That would make any R+L=J clues book specific and this is a long story 

Fair enough. So far all the puzzle pieces for R+L=J&M that I came across either comes in 2 sets or 3 sets.

For Hodor's rusty sword as the 4th set, I will try these two symbolic reasons:

  • It could be one of the many Brandon Starks buried in the crypts, and Hodor is protecting Bran. Bran already has his "namesake" sword.
  • This un-named rusty sword represents ALL of the Stark family tree. Hodor takes this generic rusty sword to protect two Starks - Bran & Meera, while Osha protects one Stark - Rickon. Perhaps at Bloodraven's cave, Hodor would do something heroic that would save Bran & Meera's lives. Perhaps Bran & Meera will fall in love and have kids with the last name "Stark". Thus the Stark family tree grows through Bran and Meera, via Hodor's symbolic generic rusty Stark family sword.
12 hours ago, dmfn said:

My silly self assumed you dedicated people were doing it manually. 

Yea, researching manually sucks.

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14 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

Well I don't want to talk about Fire Science anymore, but one thing I have to mention: its not just oxygen, its oxygen & a fuel source. A fire would die out with all the oxygen in world if there is nothing to burn. If the ratio of oxygen and fuel is not ideal, the fire would die.

I hope you guys realize that you are defending GRRM and R+L=J&M. Me, the original poster of this theory, is trying to disagree with GRRM on this subject haha.

14 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

I'm sure there are cold & torches references, fire & brighter references...probably no cold & brighter references. But all three elements?? So far just Meera. If Jon had a line where cold air made the torches brighter, best believe the fandom would have found it decades ago lol.

I have no idea what you're talking about here. What I was arguing that the text didn't mention ice and torches burning brighter due to the door opening and letting cold air from the outside in is a totally normal, non-magical thing.

I certainly was not defending any R+L theory. :blink:

Edited by wia

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3 minutes ago, wia said:

I have no idea what you're talking about here. What I was arguing that the text didn't mention ice and torches burning brighter due to the door opening and letting cold air from the outside in is a totally normal, non-magical thing.

I certainly was not defending any R+L theory. :blink:

I'm confused too. I thought you were agreeing with GRRM, that the science behind "At the foot of the hall, the doors open and a gust of cold air made the torches brighter for an instant" made logical sense.

Then I think you asked if Jon had a line similar to that in the books.

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Anyways....

Perhaps some day the R+L=J&M theory could be digested like the R+L=J theory of today.

Explaining R+L=J&M is not even the fun part, the fun part are the sub-theories.

For example: If Howland Reed knew Jon & Meera are secret Targaryens, did he really send Meera & Jojen to Winterfell hoping Jon and Meera would meet in person? If so, what was the purpose if they met?

 

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12 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

I'm confused too. I thought you were agreeing with GRRM, that the science behind "At the foot of the hall, the doors open and a gust of cold air made the torches brighter for an instant" made logical sense.

Then I think you asked if Jon had a line similar to that in the books.

Of course I'm agreeing with GRRM. the doors opened, let a gust of cold air in, which made torches burn brighter. That's it, there's nothing but Reed impactful entrance into Bran's life. It has no relation to who are whos parents and whatnot.

I asked about Targs/Starks/Jon because you seem to claim that it's pointing us towards Meera's parents being R+L, one would think that other Targs and Starks should have similar impact on torches/fire burning brighter, if Meera's impact has something to do with her parentage. 

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I just think that regardless of whether GRRM had considered the R+L=J&M as an option at the early stages of the book development or not, the moment Meera was introduced with green eyes, it became absolutely impossible. Because GRRM is the kind of author that definitely follows his own book's internal logic. 

I think if you did research on pre-Meera introduction text & other resources, it'd have more value.

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3 minutes ago, wia said:

Of course I'm agreeing with GRRM. the doors opened, let a gust of cold air in, which made torches burn brighter. That's it, there's nothing but Reed impactful entrance into Bran's life. It has no relation to who are whos parents and whatnot.

I asked about Targs/Starks/Jon because you seem to claim that it's pointing us towards Meera's parents being R+L, one would think that other Targs and Starks should have similar impact on torches/fire burning brighter, if Meera's impact has something to do with her parentage. 

Ok, I think I understand you. There was nothing magical about the cold air making the torches brighter. It was just a symbolic imagery GRRM wrote to introduce a very important character, an introduction no one else received.

Everyone thinks Jon is the song of ice and fire because of R+L=J, and he will wield light bringer. But Meera got this neat intro that is almost like ice/fire/light bringing. There is no logical imagery where a block of ice meets a fire and it would chemically produce more light, but a gust of cold air and torch can....at least to GRRM.

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13 minutes ago, wia said:

I just think that regardless of whether GRRM had considered the R+L=J&M as an option at the early stages of the book development or not, the moment Meera was introduced with green eyes, it became absolutely impossible. Because GRRM is the kind of author that definitely follows his own book's internal logic. 

I think if you did research on pre-Meera introduction text & other resources, it'd have more value.

If Meera had grey eyes, this theory would have been thought of a long time ago.

My in-world explanation of why Meera has green eyes is that she won the lottery, like Bran won the lottery of being a green-seer.

My off-world explanation is why Greywater Watch is not called Greenwater Watch. 

Does anyone have a good in-world explanation about Grey-Greenwater Watch? Everything about Greywater Watch in the book is green.

My off-world explanation is that GRRM is mis-directing Meera's eye color with this word-play.

Edited by The Map Guy

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10 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

Ok, I think I understand you. There was nothing magical about the cold air making the torches brighter. It was just a symbolic imagery GRRM wrote to introduce a very important character, an introduction no one else received.

Everyone thinks Jon is the song of ice and fire because of R+L=J, and he will wield light bringer. But Meera got this neat intro that is almost like ice/fire/light bringing. There is no logical imagery where a block of ice meets a fire and it would chemically produce more light, but a gust of cold air and torch can....at least to GRRM.

Or she might've gotten a grand entrance because she has a big role to play as Meera Reed, the cool crannog lady with a three-pronged frog spear, not as some genetical experiment on the part of Rhaegar. Personally I feel like Meera Reed is a way more awesome of a character than Meera-Targ-Stark. 

 

7 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

If Meera had grey eyes, this theory would have been thought of a long time ago.

You see, that is the kind of thing that GRRM doesn't do. He just doesn't.

 

8 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

My in-world explanation of why Meera has green eyes is that she won the lottery, like Bran won the lottery of being a green-seer.

You'd have to go and do an in-depth analysis of Targ and Stark lineages and find green-eyed people that are directly blood-related to R+L and examples of any families having children with unrelated eye colour who were not suspected to be bastards. If you find any, it'd be an explanation.
Right now saying 'won the lottery' has no value, it's not really an explanation of anything. 

 

12 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

My off-world explanation is why Greywater Watch not called Greenwater Watch. Does anyone have a good in-world explanation about Grey-Greenwater Watch? My off-world explanation is that GRRM is mis-directing Meera's eye color with this word-play.

Are you saying Greywater Watch was named this way thousands of years ago because Meera has green eyes? What?

What's there to explain about the name? It's water that's grey, not eyes that are gray in the name. Maybe the water is really gray in those bogs, who knows. 

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11 minutes ago, wia said:

Or she might've gotten a grand entrance because she has a big role to play as Meera Reed, the cool crannog lady with a three-pronged frog spear, not as some genetical experiment on the part of Rhaegar. Personally I feel like Meera Reed is a way more awesome of a character than Meera-Targ-Stark. 

 

You see, that is the kind of thing that GRRM doesn't do. He just doesn't.

 

You'd have to go and do an in-depth analysis of Targ and Stark lineages and find green-eyed people that are directly blood-related to R+L and examples of any families having children with unrelated eye colour who were not suspected to be bastards. If you find any, it'd be an explanation.
Right now saying 'won the lottery' has no value, it's not really an explanation of anything. 

 

Are you saying Greywater Watch was named this way thousands of years ago because Meera has green eyes? What?

What's there to explain about the name? It's water that's grey, not eyes that are gray in the name. Maybe the water is really gray in those bogs, who knows. 

"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer." [Bran winning the lottery]

"I thought the greenseers were the wizards of the children," Bran said. "The singers, I mean."

"In a sense. Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. [Meera with Stark blood that has Children blood wins the lottery]

(Bran III ADWD)

I used your website you gave me! Thank God for 'copy and paste'.

 

https://www.ibtimes.com/game-thrones-author-george-rr-martin-irritated-mistakes-his-books-1968421

"Martin frequently appears at book and television conventions. Last week, he was interviewed in front of a live audience about the creation of “A Song of Ice and Fire” and “Game of Thrones.” Business Insider shared a short clip from the interview, where Martin speaks about mistakes in the books. He says that there are some small mistakes, such as the color of some characters' eyes."

Edited by The Map Guy

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23 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer." [Bran winning the lottery]

"I thought the greenseers were the wizards of the children," Bran said. "The singers, I mean."

"In a sense. Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. [Meera with Stark blood that has Children blood wins the lottery]

(Bran III ADWD)

I used your website you gave me! Thank God for 'copy and paste'.

Don't see what the Children of the Forest genetics has to do with Targaryen and Stark genetics, they're not even human.

Starks clam to descend from the First Men, I don't remember them claiming to descend from the Children. The rumour goes that crannogmen are the ones who might be related to the Children.

Also is there even any proof that one has to be related to the Children to have prophetic dreams? - Daenys Targaryen had one and there's zero reasons to think that she was in any way related to them, seeing how she's from Valyria.

 

25 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer." [Bran winning the lottery]

"I thought the greenseers were the wizards of the children," Bran said. "The singers, I mean."

"In a sense. Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. [Meera with Stark blood that has Children blood wins the lottery]

(Bran III ADWD)

I used your website you gave me! Thank God for 'copy and paste'.

 

https://www.ibtimes.com/game-thrones-author-george-rr-martin-irritated-mistakes-his-books-1968421

"Martin frequently appears at book and television conventions. Last week, he was interviewed in front of a live audience about the creation of “A Song of Ice and Fire” and “Game of Thrones.” Business Insider shared a short clip from the interview, where Martin speaks about mistakes in the books. He says that there are some small mistakes, such as the color of some characters' eyes."

What he is referring to here is that he had some characters that he has established a physical trait for that is consistent with the book internal logic and then at some point he made a mistake and his editors didn't catch it (Renly's eyes, Qyburn's eyes, Val's eyes, Jeyne's hips, etc.). Meaning that there are two different descriptions of the same trait for the same character. And some of them, like Jeyne's hips, were corrected in later publications. 

Again, I'd be on your cause if you find another, not green description for Meera's eyes that is consistent with R+L.

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18 minutes ago, wia said:

Starks clam to descend from the First Men, I don't remember them claiming to descend from the Children. The rumour goes that crannogmen are the ones who might be related to the Children.

How do Starks have the power to warg then?

 

19 minutes ago, wia said:

Again, I'd be on your cause if you find another, not green description for Meera's eyes that is consistent with R+L.

Haha wia, you are one tough customer. Its okay, I respect that. Maybe everything I listed for Meera's green eyes would suffice for other people. But for you wia, for introducing me to that website, I will put on my tinfoil hat and share my notes from a few years ago that I have not mentioned yet for R+L=J&M.

 
Quote

"The secrets of the old gods," said Jojen Reed. Food and fire and rest had helped restore him after the ordeals of their journey, but he seemed sadder now, sullen, with a weary, haunted look about the eyes. "Truths the First Men knew, forgotten now in Winterfell … but not in the wet wild. We live closer to the green in our bogs and crannogs, and we remember. Earth and water, soil and stone, oaks and elms and willows, they were here before us all and will still remain when we are gone."

"So will you," said Meera. That made Bran sad. What if I don't want to remain when you are gone? he almost asked, but he swallowed the words unspoken. He was almost a man grown, and he did not want Meera to think he was some weepy babe. "Maybe you could be greenseers too," he said instead.

"No, Bran." Now Meera sounded sad.

"It is given to a few to drink of that green fountain whilst still in mortal flesh, to hear the whisperings of the leaves and see as the trees see, as the gods see," said Jojen. "Most are not so blessed. The gods gave me only greendreams. My task was to get you here. My part in this is done."

(Bran III ADWD)

 

 

Tinfoil Analysis:

So what is this green fountain that Jojen drank from? Is it in Greywater Watch? Did Howland return to the Isle of Faces with Meera & Jojen? Is it there?

It only gave Jojen greendreams...did it also make his original crannogmen green eyes darkishly greener?

Why did Meera sound sad?

If Howland made Jojen drink it, why wouldn't he make Meera drink it?

Perhaps Meera did drink it, but she got nothing. Even worse, she probably lost her innate Stark ability to warg. Maybe that is why she is sad.

Perhaps her Stark grey eyes or Targaryen purple eyes turned green afterwards.

There is so much magic with the crannogmen and the Isle of Faces, that everything there is difficult to explain.

"So long as there is magic, anything can happen" - (Bran IV ACOK)

 

I didn't want to add this to the OP because I would sound even crazier than I am already. Even though this is an in-world explanation, I can't prove it as well as my other R+L=J&M arguments. 

I thought 'winning the lottery' was the better argument since the 'greenseer lottery' was only a few sentences away from the 'Children's eye color lottery' in ADWD.

 

That's it. I am tapped out over Meera's green eyes. Take it or leave it.

  1. Winning the Children's green eyes lottery
  2. Wordplay between Greywater Watch & Greenwater Watch
  3. GRRM regrets eye color of certain characters
  4. Drinking from green fountain in an attempt to get magical powers

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I'm on the fence on this theory, but if you want to add to your "evidence" you may want to consider the following passage from Bran's POV when Bran and company come upon the Queenscrown tower:

Quote

The tower stood upon an island, its twin reflected on the still blue waters

Later, while Bran, Meera, Jojan and Hoder are hiding in the tower, Jon brings Ygritte to the shore of the lake.  In you theory, Meera's "twin" is across the lake from her.

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1 minute ago, The Map Guy said:

How do Starks have the power to warg then?

Was it ever said in the text that in order to warg one has to be related to the Children? - I can't remember anything like that.

11 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

 But for you wia, for introducing me to that website, I will put on my tinfoil hat and share my notes from a few years ago that I have not mentioned yet for R+L=J&M.

Genuenly anticipating.

28 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

 

So what is this green fountain that Jojen drank from? Is it in Greywater Watch? Did Howland return to the Isle of Faces with Meera & Jojen? Is it there?

I think he's just speaking figuratively. Otherwise all other greenseers would have to drink from that fountain too, wouldn't they?

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On 10/24/2018 at 2:33 PM, Frey family reunion said:

I'm on the fence on this theory, but if you want to add to your "evidence" you may want to consider the following passage from Bran's POV when Bran and company come upon the Queenscrown tower:

Later, while Bran, Meera, Jojan and Hoder are hiding in the tower, Jon brings Ygritte to the shore of the lake.  In you theory, Meera's "twin" is across the lake from her.

Haha thanks, but I already knew. This was gonna be the crux of another post in regards to R+L=J&M. This is where Jon & Meera are close to each other for the first time since they were separated at birth. What happens there is pretty shocking in proving R+L=J&M.

On 10/24/2018 at 2:40 PM, wia said:

Was it ever said in the text that in order to warg one has to be related to the Children? - I can't remember anything like that.

You are right, that was never officially written...but doesn't make it wrong though. That is a debate saved for another day.

On 10/24/2018 at 2:40 PM, wia said:

I think he's just speaking figuratively. Otherwise all other greenseers would have to drink from that fountain too, wouldn't they?

Or literally. Well Bran doesn't need to drink from this green fountain, he already ate some white bloody Jojen paste to be a greenseer.

Edited by The Map Guy

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So, let me get this right.

R+L=J+M

Merra = Leia

Jon = Luke

Lyanna = Padme

Rhaegar = Anakin = Vader = Big Bad = Night King

Well aside from the question of what happened to the previous Night King/s, it would make “it seems I must be a warrior” a bit less hollow if he is still out there, still fighting.

But what would he be fighting? The Baratheons? The Realm? No, that does not fit with why (and when) he picked up a sword in the first place. What is he trying to achieve? Something he read in a book? The iron throne (to which he was already heir)? My guess is that it is a metaphor for climate change. Some way that the world on which these people live is threatened by nature. And there is only one thing in the canon I can think of that fits this description. Myriad and vast, and clearly stated as a threat to the world. Yes, Rhaegar became a warrior to fight the existential threat that is Ghost Grass. 

I suppose what would be good is if he could get his hands on a dragon or two. That would be a hell of a way to carry out a scorched earth policy.

Edited by Timm
Knight Night correction

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On 10/18/2018 at 9:15 PM, The Map Guy said:

Let us analyze the sword stealing in the Winterfell crypts, 

  1. Bran grabs Brandon Stark's sword, because Bran was named after his uncle.
  2. Osha grabs Ned Stark's sword, because she will symbolically protect Rickon, Ned's last bloodline.
  3. Meera grabs Rickard Stark's sword.

IF Meera is NOT a Stark, what is the symbolism for her to carry that sword? If there is no meaningful symbolism for Meera, then Bran and Osha sword stealing should have no symbolic significance too.

Or maybe, they took those three swords, because those three - Ned, Brandon and Rickard, were the last Starks, that have died, thus their tombs and statues with swords were closest to the entry of the crypts, thru which Bran and Co came in.

Thus Meera, Osha and Bran just took whatever swords, that they saw first on their way into the crypts.

And they took those swords, instead of taking some other swords, that were lying deeper in the crypts, because those three swords were in a better state, than the swords, that were placed there earlier.

Ned died in 299, Brandon and Rickard in 282. The previous Lord Stark, Rickard's father, Edwyle Stark, was born prior 226 AC (because that's the year (226) when Edwyle's own father, Willam Stark, has died in the battle at Long Lake).

So we have Ned's sword, that was placed there shortly prior Bran and Co took it.

We have Brandon's and Rickard's swords, that have been lying there for 17 years.

And we have sword of Edwyle (that was placed there anytime between 226 and 262 (262 is the year of Brandon's birth. Most likely, by the time when Brandon was born, his father was already Lord of Winterfell, and thus Brandon's grandfather, Edwyle Stark, was already dead), that was placed there at least 37 years ago (before or close to 262).

And we have Willam's sword, that was placed there 74 years ago (in 226).

Thus we have one sword, that was just recently placed into the crypts, two swords, that were placed there 17 years ago, and a sword, that is at least 37 years old, and another sword, that is 74 years old, and other swords, that were lying in those crypts for over 100 years.

So which sword are you going to take, if you need a weapon? -> newer sword, that is still in a good condition, or an old falling apart sword, that has rusted to its core?

So they took those three swords for two reasons - they were the closest from the entry, and they were in better state, than all the other swords. Thus, them taking those three swords, is a common sense, not an attempt by GRRM to show something meaningful or symbolic, by them taking specifically those three swords, that belonged to Ned, Brandon and Rickard.

On 10/18/2018 at 9:15 PM, The Map Guy said:

Knight of the Laughing Tree:

Long story short: Lyanna is the Knight of the Laughing Tree.

Earlier in the same ASOS chapter, Meera comforts Bran, who is upset that Old Nan probably died. 

"Remember Old Nan's stories, Bran. Remember the way she told them, the sound of her voice. So long as you do that, part of her will always be alive in you." Meera in (Bran II ASOS)

So what does Meera do later on in the chapter? She narrates the story of Lyanna & the Knight of the Laughing Tree...because her dead mother "will always be alive in" Meera. 

Meera would always remember "the sound of her voice", that "booming" voice when Lyanna was the KoLT.

Later on in the chapter, besides telling to Bran that story, she was also eating frogs. Is that supposed to be seen, as if though frogs are ancestors of cranogmen, so by Meera eating them, GRRM has shown to readers, that those frogs will always remain a part of her? Obviously, that that's a NO.  There's no need to give importance and significance to every word and every action of every character. :rolleyes:

Edited by Megorova

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On 10/18/2018 at 9:15 PM, The Map Guy said:

Also with the story of the KoLT, I feel Howland Reed owes a lot to Lyanna for saving his life and defending his honor at the Tourney. Even though Howland was part of the rescue party for Lyanna at TOJ, Lyanna died. Howland did manage to save Ned's life, but he was unable to redeem himself for Lyanna. Unless.......Lyanna had a daughter and Howland raised her in Greywater Watch because King Bob would kill her if he found out. I say that is a fair redemption.

If he wanted to redeem himself by helping Lyanna, then why didn't he took under his protection both of her children? If he took one of them, then why didn't he took the other one too? Especially if it's such a good hiding place?

On 10/18/2018 at 9:15 PM, The Map Guy said:

Hidden in Greywater Watch:

It moves around and outsiders cannot find it.

For Lyanna's child the life would have been more dangerous, in case if that child was a boy, than if that child was a girl. Rhaegar's son would have been immediately killed by Robert after finding out about him. Though Lyanna's daughter, that looked nothing like Targaryens, had high chances of being spared by Robert. Half-Targaryen little girl is not a threat for Robert. Not like a boy would have been. Robert could have taken Lyanna's daughter into his household, as a warden, and presented himself as regent of little Queen, and ruled in her name, until she would have married with Robert's son, and Robert's son would have became King of 7K, and Robert would have became the King's Hand.

If Howland took one of Lyanna's children to protect it, then it would have been more logical to take the boy, who was in a greater danger than the girl, and to hide him in such a good hiding place as Greaywater Watch. No?

It was logical to separate twin-children of Darth Vader, because they both were carriers of force. So if they would have been together, that power would have formed a connection between them (as it did later in their lives), and each of them, being near the other, would have made them stronger, and thus they could have been detected by their enemies. So separating them was needed. While separating Jon and Meera, if they were brother and sister, doesn't hold any water, it's totally meaningless.

On 10/18/2018 at 9:15 PM, The Map Guy said:

Splitting the Stark Siblings:

After the sack of Winterfell, a dying Maester Ludwin suggested to split the Stark siblings, Bran and Rickon, so they will be harder to find. Meera happens to be in this group talking to a dying Ludwin. (Bran VII ACOK)

If R+L=J&M is true, then after the Tower of Joy, Jon & Meera, technically as Stark siblings, were split too so they will be harder to find.

If Ned's intention was to hide those children by separating them, then it was totally stupid to bring one of them to Winterfell. Why not to send them away from Wetseros? Why not to hide them in Essos, or somewhere else besides Winterfell?

The only plausible and logical reason, why Ned was raising Jon in Winterfell, is if he has promised to Lyanna to protect her child, and to raise him as if though he was part of Starks' family. And that was possible to achieve, only if the child was taken to Winterfell and raised there.

Etc.

Edited by Megorova

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