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Daredevil Season 3 [SPOILERS - Page 3 and beyond]


RedEyedGhost

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Spoiler

Totally agree about pointing out targets to Nadeem. 

Perhaps it's partly a legal thing as well as a moral one?  As long as Daredevil is just beating people up and not killing them, the cops can more or less justify leaving him alone.  It's harder to justify doing so if he's out there murdering people, even if it is in self-defense.  They may be okay with him killing bad guys, but it's bad for PR, which is why they're always chasing Punisher in the comics even though most cops don't really give a shit about him offing mobsters. 

 

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One more minor thing (sorry the episodes blur together in a binge but this was like 3/4 through) 

Didn't Karen confess to murdering Wesley in front of FBI cameras that the show kept showing us were on? When the agents burst in I thought they were arresting her at first.  

But again, great season. And now I have a Halloween costume that just requires black pants, two black shirts and some rope.  

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2 hours ago, RumHam said:

Loving the show, but I laughed a bit in episode 12:

 

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At Murdoch and Nadeem doing the point and shoot thing in the van. Killing is wrong but pointing to people and directing someone else to possibly kill them is fine? I guess hates guns that much he can't just borrow the gun and shoot the people? I mean at least Murdoch could "see" them and shoot them in the leg or something. Since the attackers presumably weren't standing perfectly still. 

My only other complaint is I wish the after effects of having a building dropped on him had lasted all season. Not the loss of hearing but like a broken rib or even arm that hadn't totally healed. It would have made him more vulnerable and helped explain why a villain whose power is incredible aim was able to beat him up in hand to hand combat. I mean Daredevil's supposed to be this amazing fighter who is basically a ninja.

 

Spoiler

My interpretation about Matt having trouble with Bullseye had to do with the Daredevil suit. Matt was delivering way more punches than Bullseye was in all their fights, but Bullseye could take them because the DD suit is made up of all kinds of composites, and partially bulletproof. Remember in season 2 when Punisher pretty much shot him in the head. 

 

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27 minutes ago, RumHam said:

One more minor thing (sorry the episodes blur together in a binge but this was like 3/4 through) 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Didn't Karen confess to murdering Wesley in front of FBI cameras that the show kept showing us were on? When the agents burst in I thought they were arresting her at first.  

 

But again, great season. And now I have a Halloween costume that just requires black pants, two black shirts and some rope.  

Spoiler

If I recall correctly, she looked at the cameras and then whispered it to Fisk. The inference being the cameras wouldn't have been able to pick up what she had said.

 

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I fear this may post into page 4 but I'll play safe. Spoilers up to and including episode 5

OK so we seem to have got this season's sprawling "one-take" action sequence. This time as a prison riot. The difference in choreography in comparison to the toehr Netflix shows is really telling. I think the other thing that makes Daredevil stand out is that he gets tired, beaten and damaged when fighting. You feel his struggle. This is completely lost on JJ and Luke Cage as they are virtually indestructible and IF should be on a similar mortal spectrum never seems to get that beat up (or maybe he did in season 2).

episode 5 was engaging and that was without Daredevil being present thanks to Fisk and them finally making bullseye a bit more interesting. I like how they say he just needs direction to function and Fisk is really going to use that to turn Bullseye into the monster he is.

I can see why Netflix might be tempted to focus on Daredevil rather than Luke Cage and Iron Fist.

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Not yet finished the season but I agree it’s very good. Wasn’t as wowed by E4 as everyone else but purely down to personal preference in that I get a bit bored during action sequences like that. Technically and visually I can recognise how good it was. 

One thing I realised watching this season (not sure the episode number, but don’t spoil past this point if you quote and reply to me please!)

Spoiler

Finding out about Matt’s mother got me thinking more generally and wow, losing your parents/absentee parents is a really over-used plot device in the comic book world huh? (And fiction more generally I guess).

Also, I am so accustomed to everyone here calling Fisk Kingpin that I could be mistaken but was this the first time he was referred to as Kingpin on the show? Loved that scene and Nadeem’s reaction as he comprehends the extent of Fisk’s control over the FBI

 

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Well that was fantastic! It retained its focus throughout, the lack of which was possibly the biggest problem with S2 (too much going on). As ever, superbly written, shot and performed. It's always stunningly well shot.

For me, the best individual season amongst the Marvel-Netflix productions so far.

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6 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Not yet finished the season but I agree it’s very good. Wasn’t as wowed by E4 as everyone else but purely down to personal preference in that I get a bit bored during action sequences like that. Technically and visually I can recognise how good it was. 

One thing I realised watching this season (not sure the episode number, but don’t spoil past this point if you quote and reply to me please!)

  Hide contents

Finding out about Matt’s mother got me thinking more generally and wow, losing your parents/absentee parents is a really over-used plot device in the comic book world huh? (And fiction more generally I guess).

Also, I am so accustomed to everyone here calling Fisk Kingpin that I could be mistaken but was this the first time he was referred to as Kingpin on the show? Loved that scene and Nadeem’s reaction as he comprehends the extent of Fisk’s control over the FBI

 

I'm not sure if that was the first time he was called Kingpin. Season one had a lot of "we don't say his name" but I don't remember them calling him that instead. It was always "my employer." I do know in season two the guy running the jail when he arrived here tells Fisk something like "I know you're used to running things, but in here I'm the kingpin." 

 

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Finally finished it though I dragged out my viewing experience thinking that this might be the final season. Strong overall and probably the best season of comic book TV I've seen. Nadeem was by far my favorite character. As a straight, mid30s man who's starting to bald, I wanted to run my hands through his magnificent hair quite a few times.

Spoilers from the final episode.

Spoiler

I thought the final Daredevil - Bullseye fight was a little underwhelming. Murdock could have let Bullseye kill Kingpin while staying somewhat morally safe. The last scene with the Bullseye pupils was comically absurd and unnecessary. I wonder if they had a Season 4 arc with him in mind? That's like the 3rd time the Netflix universe has done a final scene like that (Diamondback in S1 LC and Jigsaw in Punisher S1). I'm quite under the impression that we're not getting any more of this production due to the Disney shift though. Hope I'm wrong though -- I really want to see Bullseye and Daredevil take their rivalry to the next level (and I want to see a version of Bullseye's costume too).

 

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Best comic TV show season ever. 

Fantastic villains, truly menacing and scary and understandable. Sympathetic without being antiheroes. Great pacing. Honest to goodness surprises. 

Fight choreography gets a special shootout. They went away from the parkour and stylized buffy style fights to a lot of really knock down brawls, grappling and use of environment. The fights felt just brutal and painful in a way fights often haven't outside of, oh, Winter soldier. Lots of long shots and steady shots too. 

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2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Best comic TV show season ever. 

Yeah, and by far.  In my mind, the only seasons that come close are the first Daredevil season, the first Jessica Jones season, and the first Walking Dead season before some asshole decided going away from the comics was a smart idea (which, to be fair, it might have been with a good writing staff and a network that wasn't cheap as hell, but Walking Dead did not have either). 

Maybe honorable mentions for Punisher. 

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When will get to page 4 and be free of spoiler tags? maybe this post will push it over?

I finished the season last night and it was the first season of the netlix marvel shows I've been able to watch within a week since JJ s1. It was strong but I can't help but feel this could have been Marvel's "Dark Knight" if they'd made this into a movie because there was a lot of material that could have been cut or condensed and made much stronger for it. Personally, I didn't need to be shown an episode's worth of Karen's backstory when it was interrupting the previous episode's cliffhanger and felt the emotion/info could have been done in 5 minutes or less (or just been in the form of her confessing to Murdock). And that was generally the impression I got with most of the show - it was cool to see bullseye created but didn't need 3 episodes. Foggy as DA, Karen being a journalist, Matt talking to a rotating cast of imaginary figures and finding out his mum was a nun. Nadeem was an odd character, I didn't really like him and the amount of screentime he got but at the same time he was probably the most "real" character to have featured in the Marvel shows. He was weak, he was a coward but given his situation I'm sure I'd be more like him than Foggy - so I sort of appreciate what they were doing with him. I already have him fancast as the Singh character from Persepolis rising from "the expanse" as the actor did a great job of playing "character out of his depth/weak"

But there were so many positives. The show looks great, going back to the basic costume (loved the rope gloves too - felt very Frank Miller), the action sequences put a lot of films to shame and I love how the people fighting show exhaustion/damage more noticeably than in other shows (even if they seem recovered afterwards). Fisk's plan was worthy of a gangster film and he seemed to lose the "manchild" aspect from season 1 - possibly because he knew what he wanted. I wish we'd had more time with Vanessa who I think makes Fisk a better villain. In fact I think she's more likely to be the villain if the show continues. Charlie Cox does a great job - he manages to make a person who annoyingly makes everything his own personal struggle while having a certain charm to him. Which is the comic daredevil. They avoided making Bullseye too cartoony (or like the film version) but I'd have maybe liked to have seen him as Bullseye. The way he used his power was understated while still letting you realise how effective/dangerous it was. Possibly my favourite moment of the show was Murdock wrapping the ropes around his fists and saying "Dex is too dangerous from a distance - so I have to get in close to neutralise his throwing ability and maximise the damage". It's so refreshing to have a hero think tactically and respond accordingly!

It's easy to see where the other shows have gone wrong using Daredevil as a template as the issues with drawn out storytelling are present here - they just aren't as glaringly obvious. I'd still like Daredevil to tackle everyday villains and ones that don't require a whole season (something I thought the Punisher was getting the balance with). This is what stops the show getting into my top 10 for the year but in fairness there are just so many great shows out this year that it doesn't mean Daredevil is bad. It's the only superhero TV show I'm still watching beyond "legion" and when the main criticism is that the show could have been excellent with a bit of trimming just highlights how great the good elements are.

Yet weirdly, I won't be losing sleep over the possible cancellation (although I made an effort to watch this fairly quickly as I think unfinished shows are something Netflix looks negatively on (reasonable if it wasn't for the fact all their shows exist permanently so viewers don't feel they HAVE to watch a show right away). Daredevil could easily be a great film franchise too and I suspect it would be the first of the Netflix characters to exist elsewhere if cancelled.

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

When will get to page 4 and be free of spoiler tags? maybe this post will push it over?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I finished the season last night and it was the first season of the netlix marvel shows I've been able to watch within a week since JJ s1. It was strong but I can't help but feel this could have been Marvel's "Dark Knight" if they'd made this into a movie because there was a lot of material that could have been cut or condensed and made much stronger for it. Personally, I didn't need to be shown an episode's worth of Karen's backstory when it was interrupting the previous episode's cliffhanger and felt the emotion/info could have been done in 5 minutes or less (or just been in the form of her confessing to Murdock). And that was generally the impression I got with most of the show - it was cool to see bullseye created but didn't need 3 episodes. Foggy as DA, Karen being a journalist, Matt talking to a rotating cast of imaginary figures and finding out his mum was a nun. Nadeem was an odd character, I didn't really like him and the amount of screentime he got but at the same time he was probably the most "real" character to have featured in the Marvel shows. He was weak, he was a coward but given his situation I'm sure I'd be more like him than Foggy - so I sort of appreciate what they were doing with him. I already have him fancast as the Singh character from Persepolis rising from "the expanse" as the actor did a great job of playing "character out of his depth/weak"

But there were so many positives. The show looks great, going back to the basic costume (loved the rope gloves too - felt very Frank Miller), the action sequences put a lot of films to shame and I love how the people fighting show exhaustion/damage more noticeably than in other shows (even if they seem recovered afterwards). Fisk's plan was worthy of a gangster film and he seemed to lose the "manchild" aspect from season 1 - possibly because he knew what he wanted. I wish we'd had more time with Vanessa who I think makes Fisk a better villain. In fact I think she's more likely to be the villain if the show continues. Charlie Cox does a great job - he manages to make a person who annoyingly makes everything his own personal struggle while having a certain charm to him. Which is the comic daredevil. They avoided making Bullseye too cartoony (or like the film version) but I'd have maybe liked to have seen him as Bullseye. The way he used his power was understated while still letting you realise how effective/dangerous it was. Possibly my favourite moment of the show was Murdock wrapping the ropes around his fists and saying "Dex is too dangerous from a distance - so I have to get in close to neutralise his throwing ability and maximise the damage". It's so refreshing to have a hero think tactically and respond accordingly!

It's easy to see where the other shows have gone wrong using Daredevil as a template as the issues with drawn out storytelling are present here - they just aren't as glaringly obvious. I'd still like Daredevil to tackle everyday villains and ones that don't require a whole season (something I thought the Punisher was getting the balance with). This is what stops the show getting into my top 10 for the year but in fairness there are just so many great shows out this year that it doesn't mean Daredevil is bad. It's the only superhero TV show I'm still watching beyond "legion" and when the main criticism is that the show could have been excellent with a bit of trimming just highlights how great the good elements are.

Yet weirdly, I won't be losing sleep over the possible cancellation (although I made an effort to watch this fairly quickly as I think unfinished shows are something Netflix looks negatively on (reasonable if it wasn't for the fact all their shows exist permanently so viewers don't feel they HAVE to watch a show right away). Daredevil could easily be a great film franchise too and I suspect it would be the first of the Netflix characters to exist elsewhere if cancelled.

 

Thread title and OP say pg. 3 and beyond, so technically you can use spoilers now. Some people are still understandably cautious. 

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On 10/24/2018 at 8:11 PM, RumHam said:

One more minor thing (sorry the episodes blur together in a binge but this was like 3/4 through) 

 

  Hide contents

Didn't Karen confess to murdering Wesley in front of FBI cameras that the show kept showing us were on? When the agents burst in I thought they were arresting her at first.  

 

But again, great season. And now I have a Halloween costume that just requires black pants, two black shirts and some rope.  

I could be mistaken, but I believe there are no mics, only cameras.

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Great season. For me the episode that stands out particularly was E10, with complete shift of tone and scenery. I loved it.

Spoiler

One thing I don't quite understand. Why did Matt tell Bullseye about Julie, if he didn't want him to kill Fisk? He obviously knew Dex would be there and try that. So why tell him if he end up fighting Kingpin and Bullseye both?

 

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9 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

Great season. For me the episode that stands out particularly was E10, with complete shift of a tone and scenery. I loved it.

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One thing I don't quite understand. Why did Matt tell Bullseye about Julie, if he didn't want him to kill Fisk? He obviously knew Dex would be there and try that. So why tell him if he end up fighting Kingpin and Bullseye both?

 

Spoiler

I believe Matt mainly wanted to use Dex as a "battering ram" to get through Fisk's security. We didn't know at that point how driven Matt was in wanting or not wanting to kill Fisk, but it was clear he was desperate to get to him. But he gets told how heavy the security would be. So he riles Bullseye up.

In a way, and IMO another show of brilliance from the writers, Matt ends up using the same tools to manipulate Bullseye that Fisk did (the cassettes). 

I would say Matt didn't want Bullseye to actually kill Fisk. We see how closely he follows Bullseye through the building.

 

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24 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

Great season. For me the episode that stands out particularly was E10, with complete shift of tone and scenery. I loved it.

  Reveal hidden contents

One thing I don't quite understand. Why did Matt tell Bullseye about Julie, if he didn't want him to kill Fisk? He obviously knew Dex would be there and try that. So why tell him if he end up fighting Kingpin and Bullseye both?

 

 

13 minutes ago, Corvinus said:
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I believe Matt mainly wanted to use Dex as a "battering ram" to get through Fisk's security. We didn't know at that point how driven Matt was in wanting or not wanting to kill Fisk, but it was clear he was desperate to get to him. But he gets told how heavy the security would be. So he riles Bullseye up.

In a way, and IMO another show of brilliance from the writers, Matt ends up using the same tools to manipulate Bullseye that Fisk did (the cassettes). 

I would say Matt didn't want Bullseye to actually kill Fisk. We see how closely he follows Bullseye through the building.

 

 

Spoiler

To add, Fisk was always Matt's to deal with. Turning Bullseye had two reasons. Dex no longer protects Fisk but also Dex kills all the FBI agents in his pocket, which Matt and co. needed to happen.

 

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Another favorite in the season was Karen's confrontation with Fisk. Her turn of thinking the only thing she had was to sacrifice herself to make it so that others succeeded echoed Ray's turn later, but was far more about her damage and feeling of worthlessness. And the tension between the two of them was just brilliant. Very reminiscent of Silence of the Lambs. 

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