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Daredevil Season 3 [SPOILERS - Page 3 and beyond]

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

I guess the question is: would a Daredevil movie perform better than any other movie they could potentially put out? I don’t think so.

Nor do I. We were talking about a hypothetical guest appearance in the MCU, which I noted was pretty unlikely in the first place. But if it hypothetically were to happen, it would almost certainly not be the return of Charlie Cox.

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There's no way these cancellations aren't down to a strained Disney/Netflix relationship. Although now im thinking its as much netflix as disney being awkward.

 

It's down to a bunch of reasons, but the main one is Disney+ launching next year. Disney doesn't want its shows on a rival service, nor characters they own but can't use because a competitor is using them. Originally it sounded like Netflix could keep using the characters as long as they wanted, but it's clear that Disney/Marvel also have some say in the approval process, and as we saw with Luke Cage they gamed the approval process to get that show cancelled (and Iron Fist, but Netflix apparently didn't fight very hard for that one, whilst they did for Luke Cage and Daredevil). And yes, Jessica Jones and The Punisher are toast as well, no question. The new seasons will air in the spring, they'll have a respectful pause of about a month and then confirm they're gone.

I suspect Disney will be pulling all of the shows and movies they own ASAP off Netflix and Amazon. The more adult stuff will go on Hulu, the kid and crossover stuff will go on Disney+. And the same will go for all of Fox's shows and movies (new and old) as well once the deal is finalised. Disney are also well aware that Netflix's revenue growth is starting to top out - way before Netflix reaches profitability, which is starting to cause major concern there - and yanking the entire Marvel slate of shows from them will hurt. Netflix's top 3 shows in terms of viewership (i.e. people subbing to watch the latest season) are apparently House of Cards, Orange is the New Black and Stranger Things, with a second tier of shows led by Daredevil and Thirteen Reasons Why (Daredevil may have lost that though; apparently Season 3 got only half the viewership of Season 2, and Season 2 lost  more than half of the audience of Season 1, IIRC). That roster is pretty thin, with House of Cards and Daredevil now gone, Orange is the New Black airing its last season next year and a lot of their new shows not getting anything like the audience they used to (in this light Altered Carbon's renewal on quite a low audience goes from baffling to perhaps more of a sign of desperation). Stranger Things is going to do a lot of heavy lifting going forwards until Netflix can get a couple more big shows up there to prop it up. Disney probably have an eye to even buying Netflix themselves if things go as badly as they possibly could.

As for the future of these characters, Marvel are looking forwards firmly to Phase 4 (with rumours that Phase 5 may be a full year zero reboot, depending on how things go) and that means relying on a lot of new and less well-known characters, with Thor sounding like the only Phase 1 character even remotely likely to keep going (although Black Widow may finally get her solo movie and Hulk sounds like he'll continue guest starring in everyone else's film). In that field, Daredevil goes from his status as a Tier-2 or Tier-3 character (YMMV) to actually a character with a decent level of name recognition with a casual audience, thanks to Netflix and the Affleck movie, and a shoe-in for his own feature. He'll be absolutely rebooted though, no question, with a new actor. The Marvel film and TV divisions are pretty far apart (and Feige and Loeb are not friends, at all) and the cinematic division also wants to keep things relatively light: Winter Soldier is about as dark as they'll ever consider getting, and that's a way off from how dark the Netflix shows can be. They are tonally incompatible. Disney will also not want to be providing free advertising for Netflix, which is what using Cox's Daredevil will be.

Final thought on the popularity of the characters: apparently even Daredevil and Jessica Jones S1, when the shows were new, fresh and critical darlings with a strong viewership, only got between half and two-thirds the average audience of Agents of SHIELD.

Edited by Werthead

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I think there's more chance of seeing Charlie Cox in a DC film than there is as Daredevil in a Disney show/Film at this point. There's been rumours of a younger Batman for his film but Cox could ditch the angst and dial up his charm to 11 and play Nightwing. He'd also be ideal for the fight scenes and the billy clubs. It would also make for a good "screw you" from Cox to Marvel :)

But I really want to see Mike Colter, Jessica Henwick and Jon Bernthal get some more high profile gigs after this. D'Onofrio is already in a lot of stuff but should be able to command a choice of villain roles now and I feel like Bernthal is always on the cusp of hitting the big time.

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5 hours ago, Relic said:

Lol. They gave you three seasons of a show you love, and you're pissed because you can't have more? How many hours of Netflix do you consume a month? 

Umm...yes? And not that many because they only have a handful of shows I like. And now it’s one less. Two if you count Punisher which will be next. 

Glad my annoyance could give you such a laugh though. 

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9 hours ago, Werthead said:

 

Final thought on the popularity of the characters: apparently even Daredevil and Jessica Jones S1, when the shows were new, fresh and critical darlings with a strong viewership, only got between half and two-thirds the average audience of Agents of SHIELD.

The numbers are true but there is the fact that viewers don't need to pay to watch AOS so it's hard to say whether it's a popularity thing vs an accessibility thing. how do Netflix shows in general compare to AOS in audience numbers eg stranger things and house of cards? It would have been interesting to see how daredevil etc would have fared against AOS on ABC. For all the "too edgy for regular TV" claims there's nothing in any of the shows besides the occasional piece of bad language that would bar it from non pay American TV.

I agree that the "figures"/data for Netflix shows are the real damning factor though. All the shows were dramatically dropping from season to season (and sometimes from franchise to franchise). There's no escaping that the characters were becoming less popular. Then again AOS has dropped from a first season average of 5.45 to 1.88 million in season 5 so i think it's probably fairest to say marvel TV is not very popular and has always lost viewers.

Actually scratch "is not very popular" and replace with "marvel TV is not replicating the success of the films and has always lost viewers season to season'

Edited by red snow

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On 12/1/2018 at 2:30 AM, Nictarion said:

Fuck Netflix 

I think that's misplaced, or at least not directed at all parties responsible for this announcement. IMO if Netflix was left to its own devices this cancellation wouldn't have happened.

I do know one thing, I won't be signing up to any Disney streaming channel.

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Some people now are questioning whether the Punisher S2 & JJS3 shows will even be released on Netflix. I think it's safe to say those will be the last seasons for both shows, but I don't see Netflix not releasing material they already paid for. Again, it's just too bad this Marvel Netflix-verse won't likely get any real closure. DDS3 did have a pretty Disney-ish happy ending though--Matt's got his mom, Fisk got put away, and Nelson, Murdock & Paige ride again. That's as cherry an ending as any DD story can hope for.

I hope we get this same DD cast back on Disney Streaming. (Has Disney given it an official name yet?) But it's unlikely. The good news (for fans like me, at least) is that with the announcement of MCU film characters getting TV shows/mini-series on the Disney Streaming service, I'm more inclined to believe the shows and films will intertwine to a much greater degree. So while it might not work out in a film, I may see in my lifetime Wolverine, DD, Spidey, & Punisher all in a live action TV adventure together against Kingpin or Norman Osborne like in the comics.

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They keep saying that these cancellations have nothing to do with Disney +... I ain't buyin' it... 

While I think it sucks that Netflix cancelling these shows --I liked all of them to varying degrees-- I think that Disney must have a plan...  their MCU has been pretty comprehensive for such a large undertaking, and when they reboot after RDjr and crew retire... then --with the streaming service-- they can crossover TV and movies a lot easier... 

and with all of these properties retuning to the fold, I'm sure that they're going to make some kind of bid to Sony for the Spiderverse

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I'm rather sad the show is at an end, it was by far the best of the Marvel Netflix shows, and really the only one I managed to stick with without forcing myself to watch. It wasn't always perfect and almost every one of the seasons needed trimming, especially S2, but there are very few tv shows out there that combined superhero storytelling with realistic crime drama as well as DD. Plus it has some of the best fight choreography on tv.. outside of Into the Badlands.

My main regret is I won't get to see a bald Bullseye!

 

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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I'm rather sad the show is at an end, it was by far the best of the Marvel Netflix shows, and really the only one I managed to stick with without forcing myself to watch. It wasn't always perfect and almost every one of the seasons needed trimming, especially S2, but there are very few tv shows out there that combined superhero storytelling with realistic crime drama as well as DD. Plus it has some of the best fight choreography on tv.. outside of Into the Badlands.

My main regret is I won't get to see a bald Bullseye!

 

I’ve never watched Into the Badlands, but check out Banshee if you haven’t already. It’s the only show I’ve seen that rivals DD as far as the fights go. 

Edited by Nictarion

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I'm just enormously pissed by this. Not only that it's happened, but how poorly it has been handled. I'm generally well-disposed to both Netflix and Disney, but I wish they would at least inform us better what is going on. 

 

https://twitter.com/roro_cad/status/1068362438444179456/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1068362438444179456&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ign.com%2Farticles%2F2018%2F12%2F02%2Ffans-are-really-mad-netflix-cancelled-marvels-daredevil

Edited by Martell Spy

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4 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I do know one thing, I won't be signing up to any Disney streaming channel.

Yeah I think that hurts the most. I'm not signing up for a 3rd streaming channel for the possibility of having shows on level with this version of Daredevil. More likely that channel is going to cater to being some kind of electronic babysitter for young children than what Netflix has produced.

31 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

I’ve never watched Into the Badlands, but check out Banshee if you haven’t already. It’s the only show I’ve seen that rivals DD as far as the fights go. 

Yeah I'd classify Banshee in the comic book / graphic novel level of TV categories. Outside of some of the storylines in the final season, it contends well with Daredevil.

Edited by WarGalley

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The only chance I see for this Daredevil to come back is if they give it to Hulu, once Disney takes ownership. Otherwise, it'll be a reboot or whatever to integrate in the MCU. As to not signing up for Disney+, the Star Wars stuff will most likely attract me to it.

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There is zero chance of me watching another DD series on a Disney channel. I only caught this one due to it being on Netflix due to its convenience. I won't be paying for a Disney channel and this trend for large media corps to wall off their content into their own silo so that everyone ends up with 20 subscriptions to services is rather disturbing. You seem to be seeing similar trends in gaming with different clients and subscription options. 

 

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First. Are people really that stupid to think that people will pay for every streaming service that exists? Instead of having agreements in order to have 1 or 2 streaming services with lots of money to make high quality goods they prefer to have several small ones that will eventually fail...

Second. The marvel verse in netflix wasn t that big. Besides punisher that had a good first season DD was miles better than any of the other shows. And DD simply doesn t fit into the movie marvel verse (in the movies a lot of shit has happened in new york that isn t talked about in the series). So it basically has no use for disney.

And honestly, I have zero interest in movir secondary characters having series... maybe one about the winter soldier would be interesiting, but there isn t really material to make series about several characters.

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3 hours ago, divica said:

First. Are people really that stupid to think that people will pay for every streaming service that exists? Instead of having agreements in order to have 1 or 2 streaming services with lots of money to make high quality goods they prefer to have several small ones that will eventually fail...

As far as launching streaming services goes, some MCU series, a live action Star Wars series, and a bucket load of Disney owned stuff is the strongest line up we’ve seen. At some point down the line this will become a problem, I agree, but for now I think Disney will do just fine with subscriptions.

3 hours ago, divica said:

Second. The marvel verse in netflix wasn t that big. Besides punisher that had a good first season DD was miles better than any of the other shows. And DD simply doesn t fit into the movie marvel verse (in the movies a lot of shit has happened in new york that isn t talked about in the series). So it basically has no use for disney.

The first season of Daredevil was based around the corruption of building contracts after the Battle of NY, since then the only stuff that’s happened is Homecoming, which was fairly small scale and would likely not be on DD’s radar. Infinity War is supposedly set after LC2 and IF2 (I haven’t seen DD3 but I’m assuming the same must be true?).

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6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

There is zero chance of me watching another DD series on a Disney channel. I only caught this one due to it being on Netflix due to its convenience. I won't be paying for a Disney channel and this trend for large media corps to wall off their content into their own silo so that everyone ends up with 20 subscriptions to services is rather disturbing. You seem to be seeing similar trends in gaming with different clients and subscription options. 

 

Its essentially going to wind up like paid cable. What people seem to forget/miss about Netflix's rise was the appeal of paying one subscription and getting all the online content there. Soon there will 4+ major online content providers all requiring subscriptions meaning the cost will become similar to cable prices. 

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25 minutes ago, red snow said:

Its essentially going to wind up like paid cable. What people seem to forget/miss about Netflix's rise was the appeal of paying one subscription and getting all the online content there. Soon there will 4+ major online content providers all requiring subscriptions meaning the cost will become similar to cable prices. 

Except that it's a lot easier to move from one streaming service to another. Which means you only have to have one at once, or 2 if you prefer. The only penalty is that you won't get to watch the newest stuff if you don't currently have that particular service. 

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