A Howland Reed POV?

[Euron III Greyjoy]

2 minutes ago, dmfn said:

Do you think Howland knows or Jojen knows Bran is special? 

I guess my question was "why/how?" 

Did they know about, Bran the Others, what was happening, what wars were important and all that? 

 

Crannogmen are known for their greensight ability, if anyone is going to know how important these dreams are it would be Howland Reed. Jojen has green dreams, I wouldn't be surprised if Howland himself has them. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

9 hours ago, dmfn said:

So the author will now break the pattern of introducing new characters in the prologue and epilogue? 

Even if that were the case, I don't see any harm in discussing a hypothetical situation in a "fantasy" forum with about a thousand "what if...?" titled threads. 

But thanks for replying twice. 

You might as well ask about what role megatron will play in the next book, since both are equally plausible in a "fantasy" forum with a thousand fan fic threads 

[dmfn]

17 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

You might as well ask about what role megatron will play in the next book, since both are equally plausible in a "fantasy" forum with a thousand fan fic threads 

Troll someone else dickhead 

[Dorian Martell's son]

6 hours ago, dmfn said:

Troll someone else dickhead 

 If I was a dickhead, I would report this, because using the "T" word is strictly verboten here. But I won't 

[The Map Guy]

I think a Howland Reed POV during his time at the God's Eye would be great (like forum brandon greystark said)

I always thought Howland Reed was written as the Bilbo Baggins of ASOIAF.

Bilbo woke up the dragon and caused all the dragon chaos, but he was also the one that found the weakness in Smaug that leads to the slaying.

Because Bilbo helped with the slaying, he also indirectly caused the conflict of the 5 armies.

 

I mentioned in a previous thread of how Howland coming to the Tourney of Harrenhal was the indirect cause of everything in modern ASOIAF.

By butterfly effect: Lyanna defended Howland at the Tourney, Lyanna becomes the KoLT for Howland, Rhaegar falls in love with the KoLT, starts a rebellion, Daenerys and her family are removed from power and escapes to Essos, where she hatches dragons (good guys dragons).

So Howland indirectly wakes up the dragons.

 

My question in regards to a Howland POV, was this plan done intentionally by the green seers and green men of the Isle of Faces, who saw the threat of the Others in their green dreams, and remembered witnessing The Dance of the Dragons the happened above the God's Eye...the power of the extincted dragons? Did the green men, who worshiped the Old Gods send Howland as an ambassador of the Old Gods, to kick start KoLT, Robert's Rebellion, hatching dragons in Essos...to have a chance to fight the Others in the wars to come?

A Howland POV at the God's Eye would be nice...a Howland POV would also address the TOJ stuff too.

[Nevets]

I don't see any reason for Howland to be a POV.  Howland has two purposes in the series.  He was present at the Tower of Joy, and likely can give us information about it and the events leading up to it.  And he is the father of Jojen and Meera Reed, and sent them to guide Bran.  In neither case, do we actually need a POV.  He can simply tell us (or more accurately, a POV).

Given that Martin has made misstatements before, I think it is possible that we could see new POVs.  But I think the only reason to do so would be to provide coverage when another POV is unavailable, and I don't see Howland as a likely participant, although I suppose it is possible.

[Clegane'sPup]

On 10/22/2018 at 11:07 AM, dmfn said:

Do you think Howland knows or Jojen knows Bran is special? 

I guess my question was "why/how?"

There is loosely based chatter that the CotF and the crannogmen share lineage.

A Game of Thrones - Bran  VII       Only the children of the forest dwelt in the lands we now call the Seven Kingdoms.    "They were a people dark and beautiful, small of stature, no taller than children even when grown to manhood. They lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. Slight as they were, the children were quick and graceful. Male and female hunted together, with weirwood bows and flying snares. Their gods were the gods of the forest, stream, and stone, the old gods whose names are secret. Their wise men were called greenseers, and carved strange faces in the weirwoods to keep watch on the woods./

The above information has a similarities betwixt crannog people and CotF.

The below quote is part of Luwin's history lesson.

A Clash of Kings - Bran IV    The First Men believed that the greenseers could see through the eyes of the weirwoods. That was why they cut down the trees whenever they warred upon the children. Supposedly the greenseers also had power over the beasts of the wood and the birds in the trees. Even fish. Does the Reed boy claim such powers?"    "No. I don't think. But he has dreams that come true sometimes, Meera says."/

What is a greenseer?

A Clash of Kings - Bran IV     He nodded. "You told me that the children of the forest had the greensight. I remember."    "Some claimed to have that power. Their wise men were called greenseers."/

What is greensight?

A Clash of Kings - Bran IV    "Hodor, stand still." Bran grasped a wall sconce with both hands and used it to pull himself up and out of the basket. He hung for a moment by his arms until Hodor carried him to a chair. "Meera says her brother has the greensight."/

What are green dreams?

A Clash of Kings - Bran IV    "Beyond the Wall." Meera Reed hung the net from her belt. "When Jojen told our lord father what he'd dreamed, he sent us to Winterfell."/

Terminology aside, according to the above quote Jojen told Howland sumptin he dreamed and Howland sent his two children to WF.

A Clash of Kings - Bran IV  "It was a green dream, so I knew it was true./

 

 

 

 

[Legitimate_Bastard]

On 10/21/2018 at 11:28 PM, dmfn said:

 

But, of course, I'd like to know what you guys think... How would Howland Reed's POV impact the story? 

If it was a prologue/epilogue it could have quite the impact - as you say they usually are pretty insightful.

I want to see Howland show up, a POV would be sweet. I'll take him through another POV too though if that is what is available.

Off topic but I still wonder if he is Shadrich the Mad Mouse.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Howland is not needed as a POV character and the POV characters we have in prologues and epilogues always bite the dust by the end of their chapters. 

Will in AGoT, Cressen in ACoK, Chett and Merrett Frey in ASoS, Pate in AFfC, Varamyr and Kevan Lannister in ADWD.  

That said, I think Howland's importance goes beyond what he knows happened at Harrenhal or at the ToJ. He is a believer in the supernatural, he sent his children to Winterfell after Jojen had that greendream of his. I think he holds a few answers about the Others and whatever he may have learned at the Isle of Faces might be crucial to the end game with the Others. The crannogmen were close to the children of the forest and the greenseers and I think that this may be where the bulk of Howland Reed's story may lie.

I personally would not be shocked if he turned up at the Wall by the start of the next book. 

[dmfn]

1 hour ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

If it was a prologue/epilogue it could have quite the impact - as you say they usually are pretty insightful.

I want to see Howland show up, a POV would be sweet. I'll take him through another POV too though if that is what is available.

Off topic but I still wonder if he is Shadrich the Mad Mouse.

I'll have to look in to the Shadrich angle. Off the top of my head I feel like I remember Shadrich seeming a little shady. And in the WoW sample he's in the Vale to participate in the contest to become an Falcon guard guy. 

I don't remember anything else standing out. It would be a pretty amazing connection considering how little we know about Howland, other than his stature (which does match Shadrich). 

[Legitimate_Bastard]

1 hour ago, dmfn said:

I'll have to look in to the Shadrich angle. Off the top of my head I feel like I remember Shadrich seeming a little shady. And in the WoW sample he's in the Vale to participate in the contest to become an Falcon guard guy. 

I don't remember anything else standing out. It would be a pretty amazing connection considering how little we know about Howland, other than his stature (which does match Shadrich). 

Yeah - stature and age. But it would be neat!

[Chris Mormont]

A Howland POV would provide us with insight as to what happened to Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover.  Not to mention if they have a copy of Robb's will. 

My guess is that when Arya returns to Westeros she will stumble upon Greywater Watch, learn some secrets from Howland and then lead the remaining Northmen back to Winterfell.

 

[Clegane'sPup]

On 10/24/2018 at 7:47 AM, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Off topic but I still wonder if he is Shadrich the Mad Mouse.

This could be interesting.

Yeah, if Shadrich is Howland Reed it would indeed be game changer. Especially since he has found the girl while Brienne is wrapped up in a Jaime and LSH dilemma.

A Feast for Crows - Brienne I    "Oh, these three are nought to fear." Ser Shadrich was a wiry, fox-faced man with a sharp nose and a shock of orange hair, mounted on a rangy chestnut courser. Though he could not have been more than five foot two, he had a cocksure manner./

A Feast for Crows - Brienne I     "The merchant called you Shadrich."    "Ser Shadrich of the Shady Glen. Some call me the Mad Mouse." He turned his shield to show her his sigil, a large white mouse with fierce red eyes, on bendy brown and blue. "The brown is for the lands I've roamed, the blue for the rivers that I've crossed. The mouse is me."/

I snooped around. Shady Glen's location is unknown. Hummm, 5"2', kinda fits a crannogman.

I really dunna want to reread Brienne's FfC travelog right now. Maybe when the snow fly. Thanks.

[Legitimate_Bastard]

15 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

This could be interesting.

Yeah, if Shadrich is Howland Reed it would indeed be game changer. Especially since he has found the girl while Brienne is wrapped up in a Jaime and LSH dilemma.

A Feast for Crows - Brienne I    "Oh, these three are nought to fear." Ser Shadrich was a wiry, fox-faced man with a sharp nose and a shock of orange hair, mounted on a rangy chestnut courser. Though he could not have been more than five foot two, he had a cocksure manner./

A Feast for Crows - Brienne I     "The merchant called you Shadrich."    "Ser Shadrich of the Shady Glen. Some call me the Mad Mouse." He turned his shield to show her his sigil, a large white mouse with fierce red eyes, on bendy brown and blue. "The brown is for the lands I've roamed, the blue for the rivers that I've crossed. The mouse is me."/

I snooped around. Shady Glen's location is unknown. Hummm, 5"2', kinda fits a crannogman.

I really dunna want to reread Brienne's FfC travelog right now. Maybe when the snow fly. Thanks.

The only reference I could find to a Shady Glen was something Dunk said about Osgrey lands in one of the novellas - but I think it is totally unrelated. 

Quote

THE SWORN SWORD

Thunder kept a slow, steady pace beneath the broiling sun. The sky was blue and hard, with no hint of cloud anywhere to be seen. The course of the stream meandered around rocky knolls and forlorn willows, through bare brown hills and fields of dead and dying grain. An hour upstream from the bridge, they found themselves riding on the edge of the small Osgrey forest called Wat's Wood. The greenery looked inviting from afar, and filled Dunk's head with thoughts of shady glens and chuckling brooks, but when they reached the trees they found them thin and scraggly, with drooping limbs. Some of the great oaks were shedding leaves, and half the pines had turned as brown as Ser Bennis, with rings of dead needles girdling their trunks. Worse and worse, thought Dunk. One spark, and this will all go up like tinder.

 

[redriver]

2 hours ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

The only reference I could find to a Shady Glen was something Dunk said about Osgrey lands in one of the novellas - but I think it is totally unrelated. 

 

As has been suggested by others Shady Glen might refer to Duskendale-the meaning is the same.Close to the Neck,home territory for Ser Dontos and scene of Ser Barristan's one man rescue of the Mad King.

[Legitimate_Bastard]

7 minutes ago, redriver said:

As has been suggested by others Shady Glen might refer to Duskendale-the meaning is the same.Close to the Neck,home territory for Ser Dontos and scene of Ser Barristan's one man rescue of the Mad King.

Ah - that made me look up lyn, as in Darklyn. Comes from the Welsh and is shortened form of llyn which mean 'lake'. Are we on to something here? House Darklyn ruled Duskendale. Why am I excited now? LOL

[jthurman14]

It seems likely to me that he will appear in the stark children's pov's. That seems to be his duty to his liege lord, protecting the bloodline. Also the whole other issue and sending his kids north indicate to me he is well aware of what's really going on.  So he's got bran covered with his kids and he is possibly looking after sansa as or by service of Ser Shadritch. That leaves a BIG question. If he knows what happened at the TOJ why is he not looking in on Jon?? Or Arya??

[dmfn]

26 minutes ago, jthurman14 said:

It seems likely to me that he will appear in the stark children's pov's. That seems to be his duty to his liege lord, protecting the bloodline. Also the whole other issue and sending his kids north indicate to me he is well aware of what's really going on.  So he's got bran covered with his kids and he is possibly looking after sansa as or by service of Ser Shadritch. That leaves a BIG question. If he knows what happened at the TOJ why is he not looking in on Jon?? Or Arya??

I wondered about that too. 

Either Jon isn't as important as we think, or someone else is tasked with keeping him safe. 

[Nevets]

47 minutes ago, dmfn said:

I wondered about that too. 

Either Jon isn't as important as we think, or someone else is tasked with keeping him safe. 

The person responsible for Jon's safety is Ned Stark.  And he did a pretty good job.   Once Jon goes to the Wall, all bets are off, but I doubt that Howland is in a good position to do anything.  And if he is aware of Jon's importance, he may figure that the Wall is precisely where Jon should be.

I have serious doubts that Ser Shadrich is anything other than what he appears to be: a hedge knight in search of a payday.  His actions don't appear to be those of someone interested in helping Sansa, but those of a man who is broke and looking for a payday, or at least a steady job.  Which is probably why he is in the Vale; he heard that Baelish is hiring

 

[dmfn]

5 hours ago, Nevets said:

The person responsible for Jon's safety is Ned Stark.  And he did a pretty good job.   Once Jon goes to the Wall, all bets are off, but I doubt that Howland is in a good position to do anything.  And if he is aware of Jon's importance, he may figure that the Wall is precisely where Jon should be.

I have serious doubts that Ser Shadrich is anything other than what he appears to be: a hedge knight in search of a payday.  His actions don't appear to be those of someone interested in helping Sansa, but those of a man who is broke and looking for a payday, or at least a steady job.  Which is probably why he is in the Vale; he heard that Baelish is hiring

 

Yes, most likely. 

I was baiting wild tin foil

But I've always thought it was a bit harsh of Ned letting Jon join the Watch with such high hopes, knowing it wasn't what he thought. Surely there are a million different things Jon could do in the world if he never knew his lineage.