Questions about summerhall

[Coffeewiththegods]

I was wondering if it’s ever stated if there were other houses that attended summerhall? and do we know how may Targaryens died during summerhall? 

[White Ravens]

I'm pretty sure that only Aegon V Targaryen and his family plus Duncan the Tall are ever mentioned.  So House Targaryen and House Tarth? 

 

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

The Targaryens and their entourage.  Many in that entourage will be highborn.  

[Deepbollywood Motte]

Summerhall is made an mystery on purpose by the author but it seems to me like it was mostly a family party for the Targaryens. So people with the surname and married to people with the surname. 

Aegon died, Duncan died, Jenny died, anyone else? Probably Theresa the washwoman but your guess is as good as mine

 

[LindsayLohan]

I always view it as a crappy version of the Water Gardens, where the Targaryan highborns and their noble friends, plus servants, would do some chillaxing.  I doubt the Targs would let the common folk or their kids hang out in a friendly way, but the Dornish are unique in that way.  Otherwise I would imagine quite a few random nobles perished in the fire, but like an above poster says, it was deliberately kept a mystery.  Even Selmy won't discuss the events when prompted.

[Euron III Greyjoy]

The only known deaths are Aegon V, Prince Duncan, and Duncan the Tall. We know others died, but not who they where. 

[Legitimate_Bastard]

Some pyros were likely in the mix.

Did Jenny of Oldstones die there?

Reason I ask is

Quote

Known attendees

Known deaths:

• King Aegon V Targaryen^[6][7][8]
• Prince Duncan Targaryen^[6][7]
• Ser Duncan the Tall, the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard^[7]

Known survivors

• Princess Rhaella Targaryen^[9][10]
• Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, born during the Tragedy^[9][10]
• Archmaester Gyldayn^[1]
• A woods witch dear to Jenny of Oldstones.^[11] Ser Barristan Selmy believes she died; however, his description of her^[11] matches the appearance of the ghost of High Heart, who speaks of having "gorged on grief at Summerhall" and mentions "my Jenny" with grief.^[12]

Is the gorged on grief in reference to Jenny?

[Megorova]

Summerhall was build by Egg's/Aegon V's grandfather, Daeron II Targaryen, for his wife, Queen Mariah Martell. For Egg's father, Maekar, Summerhall was his main residency, not a mere summerhouse. Even when he became King of 7K, he still was residing at Summerhall, not at King's Landing. Also when there were uprisings of Blackfyres in the east of 7K, and troubles caused by Ironborn in the west, Maekar was staying away from all of it. But when uprising against the crown was happening at Starpike, he did participated in its suppression. Starpike was located in Dornish Marches, same as Summerhall. Thus, it's likely, that Maekar finally went out of Summerhall, and did something, only because this Peake Uprising was happening near his own house, so he had to do something about it.

It's likely, that prior Aegon V became King, Summerhall was his home and main residency, same as for his father. Thus all their main family gatherings were happening at Summerhall, not at Red Keep in King's Landing. So, probably, entire family of Targaryens was gathered at Summerhall, when it burned. Egg and his wife, Betha Blackwood, Egg's two sisters with their husbands and children, Duncan and Jenny and their children (if they had any), Shiera Seastar (definitely. Who else, if not her, could have brought to Egg information from Asshai, about how to hatch dragon eggs? ), Aerys and pregnant Rhaella, etc. In records about that fire, it was said - blood of seven gathered in one, so, probably 7 Targaryens sacrificed their lives, for Rhaegar to be born, as next step in evolution of dragonblood, and for Rhaegar's future child to be born, as the Prince that was promised. Those 7 Targaryens could be Rhaegar's 7 rubies.

Most likely, entire royal court was stationed at Summerhall, when it burned. Many people died, from numerous Houses from all over Westeros, dozens if not hundreds. So it was a national level disaster - a great tragedy for entire 7K, not just for members of royal family.

[Bael's Bastard]

11 hours ago, Coffeewiththegods said:

I was wondering if it’s ever stated if there were other houses that attended summerhall? and do we know how may Targaryens died during summerhall? 

I don't believe so.

The following are known to have died at Summerhall:

- Aegon V Targaryen
- Duncan Targaryen
- Ser Duncan

The following are known to have survived Summerhall:

- Rhaella Targaryen
- Rhaegar Targaryen
- Archmaester Gyldayn

The following are known to have lived beyond 259 AC, and seem likely to have been present at and to have survived Summerhall:

- Jaehaerys (II) Targaryen
- Shaera Targaryen
- Aerys (II) Targaryen

Jenny of Oldstones, the wife of Prince Duncan, also seems likely to have been in attendance, though I don't believe her fate is known. The lyrics of the song Jenny of Oldstones might imply that she survived the tragedy: "High in the halls of the kings who are gone, Jenny would dance with her ghosts" (ASOS: Epilogue).

As for people from other houses that are candidates to have been present at Summerhall, I think Lord Ormund Baratheon, husband of Rhaelle Targaryen, is a good candidate, along with their son Steffon.

Ormund wed Rhaelle, daughter of Aegon V, sister of Jaehaerys (II), and aunt of Aerys (II), in 245 AC, and Steffon was born to them in 246 AC. Steffon would have been 12-13 at the time of Summerhall. He had served as a royal page at King's Landing as a boy, and become inseparable from his cousin Aerys, and their friend Tywin.

When Jaehaerys II became king after the Summerhall Tragedy in 259 AC, he named his brother-in-law Ormund his Hand. And when it came time to deal with the Ninepenny Kings in 260 AC, Jaehaerys made Ormund the commander of his host. He died at the hands of Maelys the Monstrous while commanding Jaehaerys's host.

Steffon and Aerys, as squires, together with Tywin, a newly made knight, also fought together against the Ninepenny Kings in 260 AC. During that war, Ormund, the Hand and commander of Jaehaerys's host, died in the arms of his young son and heir Steffon.

So I think Ormund and his son Steffon were probably sufficiently close to the Targaryens that it is a possibility that they were among the non-Targaryens in name who were invited to attend the birth of Rhaegar.

The Tarths are claimed in TWOIAF to boast of recent ties to House Targaryen, so it is not inconceivable that a Tarth or two was among the guests at Summerhall, though it is possible they wed a Targaryen descendant post-Summerhall. The most recent Targaryens whose fates and possible descendants we don't know are:

- Vaella, daughter of Daeron (eldest son of Maekar I)
- Maegor, son of Aerion (second son of Maekar I) and Daenora (youngest child of Rhaegel)
- Daella, eldest daughter of Maekar I
- Rhae, youngest daughter of Maekar I

Considering Duncan and Jenny had been wed for twenty years by Summerhall, it is not inconceivable that they had children, or even grandchildren, by then.

Call me crazy, but I kind of like the idea of Brienne being a descendant of both Dunk and Aerion (through Maegor). Maegor (b. 232 AC) probably would have been too young to father Selwyn (b. 245-246 AC), but perhaps Selwyn could have wed a daughter of Maegor? Probably, but I would find it interesting.

[Bael's Bastard]

27 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Summerhall was build by Egg's/Aegon V's grandfather, Daeron II Targaryen, for his wife, Queen Mariah Martell.

You are mixing up Daeron II's building of Summerhall and Maron's building of the Water Gardens for Daenerys.

In the following year, Daeron raised a great seat in the Dornish Marches, near to where the boundaries of the Reach, the stormlands, and Dorne met. Calling it Summerhall to mark the peace he had created, it was more palace than castle and lightly fortified at best; in the years to come, many sons of House Targaryen would hold the seat as Prince of Summerhall. (TWOIAF: Daeron II)

28 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Even when he became King of 7K, he still was residing at Summerhall, not at King's Landing.

Prince Maekar left King's Landing for Summerhall after his brother King Aerys I passed him over to name Bloodraven his Hand. There's no indication Maekar resided outside of King's Landing when he became king in his own right. In fact, Maekaer I's eldest son and heir Daeron preferred to be styled Prince of Summerhall, rather than Prince of Dragonstone.

40 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Also when there were uprisings of Blackfyres in the east of 7K, and troubles caused by Ironborn in the west, Maekar was staying away from all of it. But when uprising against the crown was happening at Starpike, he did participated in its suppression. Starpike was located in Dornish Marches, same as Summerhall. Thus, it's likely, that Maekar finally went out of Summerhall, and did something, only because this Peake Uprising was happening near his own house, so he had to do something about it.

It's likely, that prior Aegon V became King, Summerhall was his home and main residency, same as for his father. Thus all their main family gatherings were happening at Summerhall, not at Red Keep in King's Landing. So, probably, entire family of Targaryens was gathered at Summerhall, when it burned. Egg and his wife, Betha Blackwood, Egg's two sisters with their husbands and children, Duncan and Jenny and their children (if they had any), Shiera Seastar (definitely. Who else, if not her, could have brought to Egg information from Asshai, about how to hatch dragon eggs? ), Aerys and pregnant Rhaella, etc. In records about that fire, it was said - blood of seven gathered in one, so, probably 7 Targaryens sacrificed their lives, for Rhaegar to be born, as next step in evolution of dragonblood, and for Rhaegar's future child to be born, as the Prince that was promised. Those 7 Targaryens could be Rhaegar's 7 rubies.

Most likely, entire royal court was stationed at Summerhall, when it burned. Many people died, from numerous Houses from all over Westeros, dozens if not hundreds. So it was a national level disaster - a great tragedy for entire 7K, not just for members of royal family.

That's a ton of baseless speculation.

[Megorova]

4 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Prince Maekar left King's Landing for Summerhall after his brother King Aerys I passed him over to name Bloodraven his Hand. There's no indication Maekar resided outside of King's Landing when he became king in his own right. In fact, Maekaer I's eldest son and heir Daeron preferred to be styled Prince of Summerhall, rather than Prince of Dragonstone.

The Mystery Knight:

• "What do the Targaryens do? King Aerys hides amongst his books, Prince Rhaegel prances naked through the Red Keep's halls, and Prince Maekar broods at Summerhall."
• "I'd show you mine, ser, but (2.) it's at Summerhall." ..... "(1.) They put it in my cradle."
• "We'll go to Summerhall. You can take service at my father's household. His stables are full of horses."
• "Perhaps I should send you back to Summerhall" - Bloodraven, in the end of the book.

The Sworn Sword:

• "When the king named Lord Bloodraven his Hand, your lord father refused to be part of his council and departed King's Landing for his own seat."
• "So far as most folk are concerned, Aegon Targaryen went back to Summerhall with his brother Daeron after the tourney at Ashford Meadow."

Maekar was Prince of Summerhall <- he was called so in the book. When Aerys I was king, his second brother, Rhaegel, was with him at Red Keep, but Maekar RETURNED to Summerhall, which was HIS own seat, HIS household, and he was Prince of Summerhall since ... ages <- this title, unlike Prince of Dragonstone, has nothing to do with order of their birth. -> For example, Maekar, the fourth son, was Prince of Summerhall, while his oldest brother, Baelor, the first son, was Prince of Dragonstone, but later in Maekar's own family, Aerion, his first son, was Prince of Dragonstone, and Daeron, his second son, was Prince of Summerhall.    Probably Maekar was given Summerhall as his seat, because he married with Dyanna Dayne, so his father gave him a household close to his wife's family.

1. When Aegon was born, his dragon egg was placed into his cradle. 2. Summerhall is named several times as Maekar's own seat and household. 3. During events in The Mystery Knight, Egg said, that his dragon egg is at Summerhall. <- Add all of that together, and it seems, that Egg was born at Summerhall, not at King's Landing. All his brothers and sisters were also, most likely, born there, and since their birth, their dragon eggs were kept at Summerhall.

Summerhall was the seat of Maekar's family, even when Daeron II was king, and when Aerys I was king after him.

Thus - Summerhall was Egg's home. He was born there, he lived there with his family, prior his father became king, and, most likely, when he himself also became king, he still often resided at Summerhall.

When Daeron II was king, Maekar and his family were living at Summerhall. When Daeron died, and Aerys I became king, Maekar briefly went to King's Landing, but when his brother has chosen Bloodraven as his Hand, instead of Maekar, he went back home.

"When the king named Lord Bloodraven his Hand, your lord father refused to be part of his council and departed King's Landing for his own seat."

The fact, that Egg has served for two years, as page at King's Landing, doesn't mean, that he was born there, or has lived there for some extended period of time, prior he became page. Is it explicitly said anywhere, that Egg was born at King's Landing? Because if it isn't, then his home was Summerhall, not KL.

[The Wondering Wolf]

The App states Egg was born in KL.

[Bael's Bastard]

14 minutes ago, Megorova said:

The Mystery Knight:

• "What do the Targaryens do? King Aerys hides amongst his books, Prince Rhaegel prances naked through the Red Keep's halls, and Prince Maekar broods at Summerhall."
• "I'd show you mine, ser, but (2.) it's at Summerhall." ..... "(1.) They put it in my cradle."
• "We'll go to Summerhall. You can take service at my father's household. His stables are full of horses."
• "Perhaps I should send you back to Summerhall" - Bloodraven, in the end of the book.

The Sworn Sword:

• "When the king named Lord Bloodraven his Hand, your lord father refused to be part of his council and departed King's Landing for his own seat."
• "So far as most folk are concerned, Aegon Targaryen went back to Summerhall with his brother Daeron after the tourney at Ashford Meadow."

Maekar was Prince of Summerhall <- he was called so in the book. When Aerys I was king, his second brother, Rhaegel, was with him at Red Keep, but Maekar RETURNED to Summerhall, which was HIS own seat, HIS household, and he was Prince of Summerhall since ... ages <- this title, unlike Prince of Dragonstone, has nothing to do with order of their birth. -> For example, Maekar, the fourth son, was Prince of Summerhall, while his oldest brother, Baelor, the first son, was Prince of Dragonstone, but later in Maekar's own family, Aerion, his first son, was Prince of Dragonstone, and Daeron, his second son, was Prince of Summerhall.    Probably Maekar was given Summerhall as his seat, because he married with Dyanna Dayne, so his father gave him a household close to his wife's family.

1. When Aegon was born, his dragon egg was placed into his cradle. 2. Summerhall is named several times as Maekar's own seat and household. 3. During events in The Mystery Knight, Egg said, that his dragon egg is at Summerhall. <- Add all of that together, and it seems, that Egg was born at Summerhall, not at King's Landing. All his brothers and sisters were also, most likely, born there, and since their birth, their dragon eggs were kept at Summerhall.

Summerhall was the seat of Maekar's family, even when Daeron II was king, and when Aerys I was king after him.

Thus - Summerhall was Egg's home. He was born there, he lived there with his family, prior his father became king, and, most likely, when he himself also became king, he still often resided at Summerhall.

When Daeron II was king, Maekar and his family were living at Summerhall. When Daeron died, and Aerys I became king, Maekar briefly went to King's Landing, but when his brother has chosen Bloodraven as his Hand, instead of Maekar, he went back home.

"When the king named Lord Bloodraven his Hand, your lord father refused to be part of his council and departed King's Landing for his own seat."

The fact, that Egg has served for two years, as page at King's Landing, doesn't mean, that he was born there, or has lived there for some extended period of time, prior he became page. Is it explicitly said anywhere, that Egg was born at King's Landing? Because if it isn't, then his home was Summerhall, not KL.

None of that supports your claims that:

1. "Summerhall was build by Egg's/Aegon V's grandfather, Daeron II Targaryen, for his wife, Queen Mariah Martell."

All we are told is that Daeron II built Summerhall near the boundaries where the Reach, Stormlands, and Dorne met to mark the peace he had created.

2. "Even when he became King of 7K, he still was residing at Summerhall, not at King's Landing."

If you mean that Maekar resided at Summerhall until he became king, that is correct. If you are claiming that he continued to live at Summerhall, not King's Landing, after he became king, there is no source that claims or supports that.

3. "But when uprising against the crown was happening at Starpike, he did participated in its suppression. Starpike was located in Dornish Marches, same as Summerhall. Thus, it's likely, that Maekar finally went out of Summerhall, and did something, only because this Peake Uprising was happening near his own house, so he had to do something about it."

There is no source that claims or indicates that Maekar I was living at Summerhall, not King's Landing, when the Peake Uprising broke out in his last year as king in 233 AC 

4. "so, probably 7 Targaryens sacrificed their lives, for Rhaegar to be born, as next step in evolution of dragonblood, and for Rhaegar's future child to be born, as the Prince that was promised."

There is no source that claims or indicates that the Summerhall Tragedy was intended to be or was a sacrifice of Targaryens for Rhaegar to be born, or Rhaegar's future child to be born.

And now you have made a number of other claims without offering any support from any sources:

5. "but later in Maekar's own family, Aerion, his first son, was Prince of Dragonstone, and Daeron, his second son, was Prince of Summerhall."

Daeron was Maekar's first son, Aerion was Maekar's second son. Daeron preferred to be styled Prince of Summerhall while he was Maekar's heir and presumably the Prince of Dragonstone. It isn't clear how long Daeron lived between the birth of his daughter Vaella in 222 AC and the death of Aerion in 232 AC, or how long Aerion was actually Maekar's heir.

6. "and, most likely, when he himself also became king, he still often resided at Summerhall."

Who? Maekar? Aegon? "Most likely" based on what?

Maekar did not become Aerys I's heir, and presumably Prince of Dragonstone, at least in name, until after the death of his niece Aelora, who was named Aerys I's heir after the death of her brother Aelor in 217 AC. Maekar always had other people ahead of him from his birth in the 170s AC until the death of Aelora between 217 AC and 221 AC. "The last of the heirs Aerys recognized before his death would be the one to succeed him to the throne: the king's sole surviving brother, Prince Maekar." (TWOIAF: Aerys I)

King Daeron II - d. 209 AC
    - Baelor  - d. 209 AC
        - Valarr - d. 209 AC
        - Matarys - d. 209 AC
    - Aerys I - d. 221 AC
    - Rhaegel - d. 215 AC
        - Aelor - d. 217 AC
        - Aelora - d. between 217-221 AC
    - Maekar I - d. 233 AC
        - Daeron - d. between 222-232 AC
        - Aerion - d. 232 AC
        - Aemon - sworn to Citadel and Night's Watch
        - Aeron V - d. 259 AC

[Lady Barbrey]

I've always found it weird Rhaegar survived, as some consolation prize for a real live dragon.  We've seen the ceremony where birthing the dragons worked, and the main ingredient was an unborn but come to term full-blooded Targaryen.  Rhaegar.  Aerys' three kids Viserys, Dany and (Tyrion) would then be the three heads, or even Aerys and Rhaella and Jahaerys.  Aerys might not have gone mad.  No rebellion, maybe more dragons to fight the Others. Someone screwed up.