The Others: Why Now?

[Lady Rhodes]

I stumbled upon this thought while on another topic, and I didn't want that fantastic topic (thank you Lady Barbary!) to get derailed, so I am posting here.

Why have the Others returned now? Specifically, why now? It has been 8000-10000 years, correct? What event has occurred that has caused them to build up their forces to the extent that there are troubling reports from the Wall?  AGoT begins with the beheading chapter, and it is mentioned that this is the third deserter this year.  We can infer from this that the frequency of deserters is higher than usual; specifically, it is high enough to raise eyebrows and suspicion. This leads me to believe that they have become more active comparatively close to the stories beginning.

Now, what could have caused this? Some forums have speculated something magical involved - an imbalance that needed to be righted, etc. Very possible and plausible.  But when?

The doom of Valyria happened after the Targaryens fled to Dragonstone, which was after the First Men and Andal invasion, which is fairly recently (when you consider when the Long Night happened.) Did the doom of Valyria cause this imbalance? It is said that when Alysanne took Quicksilver to the Wall, the dragon did not want to go past the Wall. Was there a magical energy that was felt? I don't think so.  I think the dragon felt magic, or sinister even, but I don't think they were back yet. I believe that the Others have been around, amassing an army. Jaeharys was the third Targaryen king.  By the time of Jaeharys to present day, I think there would be a lot more talk of an army of the dead.  So I am skeptical of it happening that long ago.  I think the event is more recent than that.  This means I rule out the Doom of Valyria and events as far back as Alysanne's travels to the Wall.  

There are two events that I think prove to be the most plausible.

1) Bloodraven's trek beyond the Wall.  Having blood of the First Men and Targaryen, plus crossing the magical barriers of the Wall unlocked a part of the ancient protections that kept the Others at bay.

2) If we believe R+L=J to be true, Jon Snow's birth could also have triggered it.  Similar reasons, Ice and Fire, First Men and Old Valyrian blood.

When I initially started looking at this, I was inclined two number two.  However, after further inspection, I am inclined to number one.

What did Rhaegar read that caused him to believe that he was meant for battle? to believe in the prophecy of the Prince that was Promised?  We can infer that those are regarding the Others, as Rhaegar corresponded with Maester Aemon.  I believe he found something that suggested that someone with lineage similar to Bloodraven going beyond the Wall would be catastrophic (ie. would cause the Others to come back).

These are musing that I would love feedback on.

[wia]

I think that dragons can't go past the Wall 'cause it's a barrier for magic that works both ways. Why can Ghost and his mom pass is a question. I guess direwolves are allowed to pass since Brandon was the one who built it.

Personally I very much doubt that the Others have anything to do with Jon. And anything to do with Bloodraven simply being beyond the Wall. Might have something to do with what he has been doing with CotF though, but I'm not very invested into that theory.

My personal guess would be that the Others are somewhat akin to glacial periods (like the Ice age) in our world, but with a magic twist to it. Just a natural occurence that comes in power due to mysterious natural factors.

What I've been wondering abouts is the Dayne meteorite and the red comet. One landed, the other, to our knowledge, didn't. If we assume that the Dayne meteor landed shortly before or sometime after The Long Night began (and that Dawn was important in ending it), could we suppose a causation or just a correlation? It would be the Others causing or predcessing space debris, sice the Others were shown to be active before the red comet. Or maybe both are triggered by the same process? So, in this assumption, what would the difference between falling and passing by be for our characters?

As for Rhaegar, then I wouldn't put my faith in whatever he was reading, since he was expecting Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys being all legendary and what he got is Rhaenys killed as a child, Aegon, whom he believed to be TPTWP, likely also killed as a child and, if we believe RLJ, Jon who is no Visenya by any means. So clearly Rhaegar had no idea. As a side note, why did he go with Rhaenys-Aegon-Visenya pattern when the original was Visenya-Aegon-Rhaenys?

[Lady Rhodes]

Interesting thoughts re: red comet and Dayne meteorite! 

Personally, I would be very disappointed if it was just “they returned.” I think something had to have happened to bring them back at this very time. 

Oh, I am not saying Rhaegar had it right as to how to solve the problem. Just that it was possible that he was one of the first to say, “hey folks, we have a problem”

[Adam Yozza]

14 minutes ago, wia said:

I think that dragons can't go past the Wall 'cause it's a barrier for magic that works both ways. Why can Ghost and his mom pass is a question. I guess direwolves are allowed to pass since Brandon was the one who built it.

Personally I very much doubt that the Others have anything to do with Jon. And anything to do with Bloodraves simply being beyond the Wall. Might have something to do with what he has been doing with CotF though, but I'm not very invested into that theory.

My personal guess would be that the Others are somewhat akin to glacial periods (like the Ice age) in our world, but with a magic twist to it. Just a natural occurence that comes in power due to mysterious natural factors.

What I've been wondering abouts is the Dayne meteorite and the red comet. One landed, the other, to our knowledge, didn't. If we assume that the Dayne meteor landed shortly before or sometime after The Long Night began (and that Dawn was important in ending it), could we suppose a causation or just a correlation? It would be the Others causing or predcessing space debris, sice the Others were shown to be active before the red comet. Or maybe both are triggered by the same process? So, in this assumption, what would the difference between falling and passing by be for our characters?

As for Rhaegar, then I wouldn't put my faith in whatever he was reading, since he was expecting Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenis being all kegendary and what he got is Rhaenis killed as a child, Aegon, whom he believed to be TPTWP, likely also killed as a child and, if we believe RLJ, Jon who is no Visenya by any means. So clearly Rhaegar had no idea. As a side note, why did he go with Rhaenys-Aegon-Visenya pattern when the original was Visenya-Aegon-Rhaenys?

In fairness I think Rhaegar's belief was that there would need to be 'three heads of the dragon' which he took to mean three Targaryen's; one of them Azhor Ahai/Prince that was Promised (who would end the war/bring balance etc) and the other two, while being less important, would be vital in helping him. He believed Aegon to be AA/PTWP and thus concluded that his daughter and an unborn third child would be the other two.

As for the names, Rhaegar was a poet and the symbolism probably appealed to that side of him. But by the time he realised Aegon was the subject of the prophecy (he thought) Rhaenys had been born and named, so he had to make due with just the three names, not the order.

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 hour ago, Lady Rhodes said:

I stumbled upon this thought while on another topic, and I didn't want that fantastic topic (thank you Lady Barbary!) to get derailed, so I am posting here.

Why have the Others returned now? Specifically, why now? It has been 8000-10000 years, correct? What event has occurred that has caused them to build up their forces to the extent that there are troubling reports from the Wall?  AGoT begins with the beheading chapter, and it is mentioned that this is the third deserter this year. 

Because the books take place when the others are returning

1 hour ago, Lady Rhodes said:

We can infer from this that the frequency of deserters is higher than usual; specifically, it is high enough to raise eyebrows and suspicion. This leads me to believe that they have become more active comparatively close to the stories beginning.

Can we really?

1 hour ago, Lady Rhodes said:

Now, what could have caused this? Some forums have speculated something magical involved - an imbalance that needed to be righted, etc. Very possible and plausible.  But when?

are you sure? 

If it did, why did they wait so long to invade? 

1 hour ago, Lady Rhodes said:

It is said that when Alysanne took Quicksilver to the Wall, the dragon did not want to go past the Wall. Was there a magical energy that was felt? I don't think so. 

Really? The ice demons and their wight cannot pass the wall due to magic. Mel speaks of how magic is all around more powerful around the wall. The wall prevents Jon from hearing ghost in his head when they are on opposite sides of it. Why would a dragon be unaffected by a magical wall that is shown to have a profound effect on magical everything? 

2 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

There are two events that I think prove to be the most plausible.

1) Bloodraven's trek beyond the Wall.  Having blood of the First Men and Targaryen, plus crossing the magical barriers of the Wall unlocked a part of the ancient protections that kept the Others at bay.

Is there anything in the books that would lead you to believe that Targ/first men mixed blood has any effect on anything or is this just pure speculation? 

2 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

2) If we believe R+L=J to be true, Jon Snow's birth could also have triggered it.  Similar reasons, Ice and Fire, First Men and Old Valyrian blood.

When I initially started looking at this, I was inclined two number two.  However, after further inspection, I am inclined to number one.

What did Rhaegar read that caused him to believe that he was meant for battle? to believe in the prophecy of the Prince that was Promised?  We can infer that those are regarding the Others, as Rhaegar corresponded with Maester Aemon.  I believe he found something that suggested that someone with lineage similar to Bloodraven going beyond the Wall would be catastrophic (ie. would cause the Others to come back).

Or, would the arrival of the others lead to a prophecy that Rhaegar was obsessed with? and it is confirmed, we are just not allowed to speak about it here 

2 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

These are musing that I would love feedback on.

The others seem to be an ancient enemy that invaded from time to time. The CTOF were uniquely prepared to deal with it. They had the magic to stop them, weaponry to easily kill them, and with the weirnet, they would be able to see them coming a long way away, and the greenseers would be able to see memories of previous invasions so unlike with people, the CTOF would not forget about it after 8000 years. Only when humans came and cut down the weirwood trees did the long night happen.  

[wia]

4 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said:

Personally, I would be very disappointed if it was just “they returned.” I think something had to have happened to bring them back at this very time.

Would the reason of their first coming and this coming not be the same/similar?

6 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said:

Oh, I am not saying Rhaegar had it right as to how to solve the problem. Just that it was possible that he was one of the first to say, “hey folks, we have a problem”

Maybe, but he sure went to solve that in a weird way. Normally one would assume that a united Westeros with strong NW would be a better Westeros to fight off the Others, yet he chose to put in his effort in other areas. )))

 

8 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said:

In fairness I think Rhaegar's belief was that there would need to be 'three heads of the dragon' which he took to mean three Targaryen's; one of them Azhor Ahai/Prince that was Promised (who would end the war/bring balance etc) and the other two, while being less important, would be vital in helping him. He believed Aegon to be AA/PTWP and thus concluded that his daughter and an unborn third child would be the other two.

As for the names, Rhaegar was a poet and the symbolism probably appealed to that side of him. But by the time he realised Aegon was the subject of the prophecy (he thought) Rhaenys had been born and named, so he had to make due with just the three names, not the order.

Makes sense. 

But the pophercy he read failed to mention that 1/3 to 2/3 of the heads won't make it if he'll be acting stupid, so I'd say it wasn't a very accurate one. ))

[The Lord of the Crossing]

5 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

I stumbled upon this thought while on another topic, and I didn't want that fantastic topic (thank you Lady Barbary!) to get derailed, so I am posting here.

Why have the Others returned now? Specifically, why now? It has been 8000-10000 years, correct? What event has occurred that has caused them to build up their forces to the extent that there are troubling reports from the Wall?  AGoT begins with the beheading chapter, and it is mentioned that this is the third deserter this year.  We can infer from this that the frequency of deserters is higher than usual; specifically, it is high enough to raise eyebrows and suspicion. This leads me to believe that they have become more active comparatively close to the stories beginning.

Now, what could have caused this? Some forums have speculated something magical involved - an imbalance that needed to be righted, etc. Very possible and plausible.  But when?

The doom of Valyria happened after the Targaryens fled to Dragonstone, which was after the First Men and Andal invasion, which is fairly recently (when you consider when the Long Night happened.) Did the doom of Valyria cause this imbalance? It is said that when Alysanne took Quicksilver to the Wall, the dragon did not want to go past the Wall. Was there a magical energy that was felt? I don't think so.  I think the dragon felt magic, or sinister even, but I don't think they were back yet. I believe that the Others have been around, amassing an army. Jaeharys was the third Targaryen king.  By the time of Jaeharys to present day, I think there would be a lot more talk of an army of the dead.  So I am skeptical of it happening that long ago.  I think the event is more recent than that.  This means I rule out the Doom of Valyria and events as far back as Alysanne's travels to the Wall.  

There are two events that I think prove to be the most plausible.

1) Bloodraven's trek beyond the Wall.  Having blood of the First Men and Targaryen, plus crossing the magical barriers of the Wall unlocked a part of the ancient protections that kept the Others at bay.

2) If we believe R+L=J to be true, Jon Snow's birth could also have triggered it.  Similar reasons, Ice and Fire, First Men and Old Valyrian blood.

When I initially started looking at this, I was inclined two number two.  However, after further inspection, I am inclined to number one.

What did Rhaegar read that caused him to believe that he was meant for battle? to believe in the prophecy of the Prince that was Promised?  We can infer that those are regarding the Others, as Rhaegar corresponded with Maester Aemon.  I believe he found something that suggested that someone with lineage similar to Bloodraven going beyond the Wall would be catastrophic (ie. would cause the Others to come back).

These are musing that I would love feedback on.

#2 is supportive of my belief that ice and Fire should never mix and not meant to mix.  So if R+L=J is true, then the way to establish peace with the Others is to kill Jon Snow.   Allowing Jon to die from his stab wounds may be enough to satisfy the Others and make them go back to the land of always winter.  

[Lady Barbrey]

4 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

I stumbled upon this thought while on another topic, and I didn't want that fantastic topic (thank you Lady Barbary!) to get derailed, so I am posting here.

Why have the Others returned now? Specifically, why now? It has been 8000-10000 years, correct? What event has occurred that has caused them to build up their forces to the extent that there are troubling reports from the Wall?  AGoT begins with the beheading chapter, and it is mentioned that this is the third deserter this year.  We can infer from this that the frequency of deserters is higher than usual; specifically, it is high enough to raise eyebrows and suspicion. This leads me to believe that they have become more active comparatively close to the stories beginning.

Now, what could have caused this? Some forums have speculated something magical involved - an imbalance that needed to be righted, etc. Very possible and plausible.  But when?

The doom of Valyria happened after the Targaryens fled to Dragonstone, which was after the First Men and Andal invasion, which is fairly recently (when you consider when the Long Night happened.) Did the doom of Valyria cause this imbalance? It is said that when Alysanne took Quicksilver to the Wall, the dragon did not want to go past the Wall. Was there a magical energy that was felt? I don't think so.  I think the dragon felt magic, or sinister even, but I don't think they were back yet. I believe that the Others have been around, amassing an army. Jaeharys was the third Targaryen king.  By the time of Jaeharys to present day, I think there would be a lot more talk of an army of the dead.  So I am skeptical of it happening that long ago.  I think the event is more recent than that.  This means I rule out the Doom of Valyria and events as far back as Alysanne's travels to the Wall.  

There are two events that I think prove to be the most plausible.

1) Bloodraven's trek beyond the Wall.  Having blood of the First Men and Targaryen, plus crossing the magical barriers of the Wall unlocked a part of the ancient protections that kept the Others at bay.

2) If we believe R+L=J to be true, Jon Snow's birth could also have triggered it.  Similar reasons, Ice and Fire, First Men and Old Valyrian blood.

When I initially started looking at this, I was inclined two number two.  However, after further inspection, I am inclined to number one.

What did Rhaegar read that caused him to believe that he was meant for battle? to believe in the prophecy of the Prince that was Promised?  We can infer that those are regarding the Others, as Rhaegar corresponded with Maester Aemon.  I believe he found something that suggested that someone with lineage similar to Bloodraven going beyond the Wall would be catastrophic (ie. would cause the Others to come back).

These are musing that I would love feedback on.

I waa just musing about this on that other thread too regarding magic rising since the return of dragons.  I don't find dragons persuasive as a reason for fire magic rising, for the simple reason ice magic has also been rising North of the Wall (where ice magic is contained by the Wall and therefore we never see it practiced in Westeros proper), and earth magic is also rising (after a generations-long hiatus, 6 skinchangers of various strength were born into one family, indicating there might be many more suddenly realizing they have un-looked for abilities).  So a steady rise in fire magic likely was a factor in rebirthing dragons, but they themselves didn't cause the rise imo.

So I think a rise in magic in general must be what is increasing the Other's power and causing them to come south, creating families of sacrificers close to the Wall, these magical cold mists and armies of wights out of Wildlings and animals.  They do have a problem in the Wall, because it contains ice magic to their current territory, so even if they and their armies were somehow to get past it, they'd be locked out from the source of their power and couldn't create new Wights in the South.

So something has led them to believe they'll be able to bring down the Wall or cancel its magics.  Whether from their own prophecies or new knowledge they've picked up from wighted Wildlings.  I always saw the wighted rangers they left in front of the Wall as some kind of test.  Of the Wall's defenses and how the NW might react.

And of course there is Jon, in #2, who might be a prophecized Lightbringer (one of them maybe) to followers of the Lord's of Light but could easily also be a prophecized Nightbringer to the Others. His bloodline runs both ways.  He's a bit of a crux.

I don't think it was Bloodraven's presence.  I think it was a rise in magic and a belief, through prophecy or knowledge, that the time is ripe to bring down the Wall or break its magics. 

I'm trying to think who would be powerful enough to break the Wall's spells if they came from the South side of it.  Despite its appearance, the spells creating the magical barrier keeping ice magic out can't have been primarly made from ice magic or its own spells would be defeated.

So the Wall, beneath its icy facade, is very likely made of fire magic infused stone at its base. Like the Wall equivalent Five Forts in the East.  'Fused' black stone? or dragonfire and spell "infused" black stone?

The people at the Wall are such a potent mix.  A very powerful fire sorceress who tends to get things confused. A possible baby sacrifice with very powerful Other genes for transformation.  The Wall itself made of fire and earth magic, coated in ice.  Jon, earth, ice and fire.

I guess I see a possible coming clusterf*ck if Mel tries to raise Jon using fire magic from the Wall and Gilly's baby as sacrifice.  The Wall's magics might breech.  And Lord Icefire rise a little earlier than I was anticipating.

Thinking out loud!  But maybe.

 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

49 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

#2 is supportive of my belief that ice and Fire should never mix and not meant to mix.  So if R+L=J is true, then the way to establish peace with the Others is to kill Jon Snow.   Allowing Jon to die from his stab wounds may be enough to satisfy the Others and make them go back to the land of always winter.  

If that's the case then Rhaegar really messed up and did a dreadful job at translating prophecies, 

[wia]

5 hours ago, Lady Barbrey said:

They do have a problem in the Wall, because it contains ice magic to their current territory, so even if they and their armies were somehow to get past it, they'd be locked out from the source of their power and couldn't create new Wights in the South

The wights created north of the Wall worked south of the wall though.

 

5 hours ago, Lady Barbrey said:

 

The people at the Wall are such a potent mix.  A very powerful fire sorceress who tends to get things confused. A possible baby sacrifice with very powerful Other genes for transformation.  The Wall itself made of fire and earth magic, coated in ice.  Jon, earth, ice and fire.

I have been wondering if the Wall was built in a particular preexisting magical place and is deriving most of its magic from the place itself. Since people can bypass it in places where it ends and the Others can't. Like there was a line separating the Lands of Awlays Winter and the Wall was built upon it, multiplied it's natural magic by a lot, so where there's no physical wall present, there's an invisible magical one.

[Lady Barbrey]

5 minutes ago, wia said:

Quote

The wights created north of the Wall worked south of the wall though.

Yeah this was part of the discussion with Ran.  In his opinion, the wights were magicked alive, given orders.. They were then placed near the Wall, where they de-animate during the daytime.  So were brought across, the Night came back and they followed their initial orders.  Pre-programmed.  Take it as you will.

I hav

Quote

I have been wondering if the Wall was built in a particular preexisting magical place and is deriving most of its magic from the place itself. Since people can bypass it in places where it ends and the Others can't. Like there was a line separating the Lands of Awlays Winter and the Wall was built upon it, multiplied it's natural magic by a lot, so where there's no physical wall present, there's an invisible magical one

Yes, and just read something about that and can't remember it. We do know Melisandre calls it a hinge, so I think we're supposed to think that It's underneath is a door to magic that could be inexhaustible.

Yes about the Wall.  It's an important physical presence against Wildlings.  It's an important magic barrier against wights.  We do not know if it keeps Others out magically; we do know if an Other got south, what would he do with himself if he could not access his magic on the northern side of the Wall. 

Dumdidumdidum, twiddle his overlong, icy thumbs.

 

[wia]

1 hour ago, Lady Barbrey said:

Yeah this was part of the discussion with Ran.  In his opinion, the wights were magicked alive, given orders.. They were then placed near the Wall, where they de-animate during the daytime.  So were brought across, the Night came back and they followed their initial orders.  Pre-programmed.  Take it as you will.

That's an interesting take. I certainly never considered that option.

 

1 hour ago, Lady Barbrey said:

We do not know if it keeps Others out magically; we do know if an Other got south, what would he do with himself if he could not access his magic on the northern side of the Wall. 

Do we know for sure that the Others derive their magic from a particular place?

 

[Lord Vance II]

12 hours ago, wia said:

My personal guess would be that the Others are somewhat akin to glacial periods (like the Ice age) in our world, but with a magic twist to it. Just a natural occurence that comes in power due to mysterious natural factors.

This, more or less. It's just time. 

It seems simplistic, but I don't see any real reason they would move now. It's definitely not Dany and her dragons. There were maybe hundreds of dragons alive during the peak of Valyria, and the Others never moved. There were dozens of dragons in Westeros during the Targ years and the Others never moved. Hell, the Others may not know dragons even exist, it's not like they'd've seen one. 

Frankly, I don't think the Others care what's happening in Westeros or even have a way to know. I suppose they could be using glass candles, but even then, I don't think they've seen anything that would worry them. They don't care who's on what throne, we're all just wight meat to them. It's not like they see Jon raising an army to drive north to the Heart of Winter. They aren't under any real threat. 

I will say, I posted a theory a long time ago that the Others want to reseal the Arm of Dorne and restore Westeros to pre-man conditions. Based on geography, I think much of the North was glacially locked because there would be no warm water moving up the Narrow Sea. Shattering the Arm and unleashing tropical water from the Summer Sea would have created rapid climate change in the North. Perhaps this robbed the Others of their land by turning it more temperate? Even so, it doesn't really explain why now since it happened like 9,000 years ago. 

[Gramse]

Beause of Varys
Read full analysis here: Varys true endgame

[The Sleeper]

My notion is that whatever ended the first Long Night was a temporary fix that was bound to fail and of which the irregularity of the seasons is an effect. 

The Others being immortal simply binded their time until conditions were ripe for their expansion again. 

[Legitimate_Bastard]

Because for 300 years there has been no king in Winterfell. The King of Winter was who made the truce/pact, and they want another King of Winter back.

Or not.

[Springwatch]

A workable scenario would be if the Others were something like locusts - most of the time, slow breeding and perhaps anti-social (maybe something like the Undying of Qarth). And then when conditions are right (which could just be building up to a critical number), swarming and massive numbers of offspring.

The linking image would be dragonspawn - which is how Robert describes breeding Targs, something he is violently phobic about; but it would neat if the Storm Lords had some kind of racial memory of their true ancient enemy. Unstoppable breeding: hundreds, thousands, or millions of eggs. Inevitably ending in a ghost grass world.

[Valyrian Lance]

The key is Craster. They waited thousands of years for a schmuck with First Men blood to deliver them newborn boys.

[Lluewhyn]

4 minutes ago, Valyrian Lance said:

The key is Craster. They waited thousands of years for a schmuck with First Men blood to deliver them newborn boys.

This is my theory as well. The text indicates that the White Walkers are demanding more and more from Craster, and as he births more "wives", is also having more sons in a snowballing fashion. The timeline of this is pretty similar to the return of the Others in the story.

[Lady Rhodes]

14 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Because the books take place when the others are returning

Yes. That is in media rez - in the middle of the action.  While the "action" of much of the story hasn't started yet, the "action" of the Others certainly has.  The question remains - why have they returned now?

 

14 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Can we really?

Yes, we can. From Bran's chapter re: finding the Direwolves:
“Direwolves loose in the realm, after so many years,” muttered Hullen, the master of horse. “I like it not."

From Catelyn's chapter that follows:

“He was the fourth this year,” Ned said grimly. “The poor man was half-mad. Something had put a fear in him so deep that my words could not reach him.” He sighed. “Ben writes that the strength of the Night’s Watch is down below a thousand. It’s not only desertions. They are losing men on rangings as well.”

“Is it the wildlings?” she asked.

“Who else?” Ned lifted Ice, looked down the cool steel length of it. “And it will only grow worse. The day may come when I will have no choice but to call the banners and ride north to deal with this King-beyond-the-Wall for good and all.”

“Beyond the Wall?” The thought made Catelyn shudder.

Ned saw the dread on her face. “Mance Rayder is nothing for us to fear.”

“There are darker things beyond the Wall.” She glanced behind her at the heart tree, the pale bark and red eyes, watching, listening, thinking its long slow thoughts.

His smile was gentle. “You listen to too many of Old Nan’s stories. The Others are as dead as the children of the forest, gone eight thousand years. Maester Luwin will tell you they never lived at all. No living man has ever seen one.”

“Until this morning, no living man had ever seen a direwolf either,” Catelyn reminded him.

14 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

If it did, why did they wait so long to invade? 

Two thoughts on this: 1) They haven't waited too long. It has been fairly recent (within 100-150 years) that they have returned. and 2) They were amassing an army.

 

17 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

It is said that when Alysanne took Quicksilver to the Wall, the dragon did not want to go past the Wall. Was there a magical energy that was felt? I don't think so.  I think the dragon felt magic, or sinister even, but I don't think they were back yet

You omitted part of my quote.

15 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

there anything in the books that would lead you to believe that Targ/first men mixed blood has any effect on anything or is this just pure speculation? 

A bit of both. Speculation, certainly, but also from deductive reasoning regarding timing, Dany's vision in the HotU (blue rose in the Wall) and Rhaegar's abduction/running away with Lyanna. I am constructing this theory based on a variety of clues that can be assembled varying ways, but I think have to do with Ice and Fire joining.

 

15 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

and it is confirmed, we are just not allowed to speak about it here 

15 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

The others seem to be an ancient enemy that invaded from time to time.

 

I am not sure what you are referring to. Could you please elaborate?

Also, not sure why those two quotes paired together. Regarding the second quote, you very well could be right. But as I have said before, I would be very disappointed and frankly, I think it would be lazy storytelling.

11 hours ago, Lady Barbrey said:

I think a rise in magic in general must be what is increasing the Other's power and causing them to come south

I would agree with this but again, that bears the question - why is magic returning?

 

3 hours ago, Lord Vance II said:

I will say, I posted a theory a long time ago that the Others want to reseal the Arm of Dorne and restore Westeros to pre-man conditions. Based on geography, I think much of the North was glacially locked because there would be no warm water moving up the Narrow Sea. Shattering the Arm and unleashing tropical water from the Summer Sea would have created rapid climate change in the North.

Very interesting theory!!!