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Legitimate_Bastard

Did Roose actually think Ramsay was dead

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On 10/26/2018 at 8:22 AM, The Sunland Lord said:

Theon was also worth a ransom.

Ramsay didn't care.

I don't think that Ramsay would take Winterfell in Bolton's name without his father's say so. That would put him in a very dangerous position. That way It seems like Ramsay made Roose turn his cloak and betray Robb just to cover Ramsay's usurping of Winterfell, which I am not buying. Or, it all sounds like a crazy coincidence, which is also not likely.

I think the fact that Theon was kept alive is proof that Ramsay completely understood his captive's value.  Theon was worth more than anyone at Winterfell outside of the Starks.   Theon is a prince, after all.    In Robb's camp the Ironborn were being solicited to join the North's cause.  

It is difficult to discern if Ramsay and Roose were working in concert during Robb's reign and after the Red Wedding.   I read Ramsay as being driven by his desire to have his father's name and approval.   I don't think they were working together or even in contact so much as Ramsay worked very hard to emulate Roose's actions and behavior.   Surely Ramsay had to know he was in big trouble over the lady Hornwood fiasco.   That alone could have been motive enough for Ramsay to try to play the get back in Dad's good graces game without any real direct communication.   In the end it paid off for Ramsay Snow, I mean Bolton, right? 

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On 10/26/2018 at 10:30 AM, The hairy bear said:

I don't see your point here. Theon was spared too.

He couldn't be ransomed, though. He had just betrayed the King in the North, burned Winterfell, and murdered "Bran and Rickon". Ramsay couldn't do anything else that kill him, or keep him prisoner until Robb arrived (or died).

Ramsay kidnapped Lady Hornwood, forced her to marry him at sword point, raped her, and left her in a cell to die. This is also outrageous and dangerous. The Boltons were taking a gamble. If they were able to cover it up and get away with it, they'd gain the Hornwood lands. If it didn't turn out well, Roose would claim that Ramsay was a wretched creature acting on his own (as he did). The Hornwood operation only went wrong because of Rodrik's swift response.

Burning Winterfell is not that different. If Rodrik had won or some witness had survived, Roose could always claim that he had no part in it. But in this case, the cover up worked and they were able to pass the sack of Winterfell as the ironborn's work.

It didn't force Roose to betray Robb at all.  He still had his options open. But Ramsay knows Boltons hate the Starks and his father will be happy if he is able to debilitate them.

That's certainly a possibility.

 

 

This is another very interesting junction in Ramsay's story.  I've wondered if the forcible marriage of Lady Hornwood to Ramsay wasn't actually executed at Roose's suggestion?   Once the Lady was dead the lands became Bolton domain, didn't they?   Roose remained or at least sounded to me to be very calm when discussing Ramsay's bastard blood and dastardly deeds---as though he took it all in stride and wasn't surprised in the least by his bastard's actions.    

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2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I think the fact that Theon was kept alive is proof that Ramsay completely understood his captive's value.  Theon was worth more than anyone at Winterfell outside of the Starks.   Theon is a prince, after all.    In Robb's camp the Ironborn were being solicited to join the North's cause.  

It is difficult to discern if Ramsay and Roose were working in concert during Robb's reign and after the Red Wedding.   I read Ramsay as being driven by his desire to have his father's name and approval.   I don't think they were working together or even in contact so much as Ramsay worked very hard to emulate Roose's actions and behavior.   Surely Ramsay had to know he was in big trouble over the lady Hornwood fiasco.   That alone could have been motive enough for Ramsay to try to play the get back in Dad's good graces game without any real direct communication.   In the end it paid off for Ramsay Snow, I mean Bolton, right? 

Depends on what you believe in. I don't think that Ramsay acted on his own in the first place. Because taking Winterfell after backstabbing Rodrick Cassel's army sounds like a crazy gamble by Ramsay, and being in discord with his father would've meant a great trouble for him. The Boltons decided to take the big chair from Starks. That's why Ramsay stayed up North and didn't join the fighting south.

 

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